Audio help please

[rockfangd]

Hi all. Any audio gurus?

My 97 D'elegance has the 11 speaker audio system with the amp in the trunk. but does not appear to be the bose system.

It needs the deck speakers. Look to be 6x9. So I ordered a decent set of Clarions to replace them. 

The questions I have is was there a woofer available for the 97 model year Deville?

They may be calling the deck speakers the woofers. 

The systems appear to be different between the Deville, Seville, and the Eldo. 

I would love to learn a bit about the systems in the cadillacs. MY 97 Seville has the Bose system and sounds wonderful. 

Thanks all

[winterset]

You are correct.  The 2 rear deck speakers are the subs.  I have the '99 rds active audio system in my '96.  It sounded terrible until i was able to get all 11 oem speakers and wire, etc. from a donor in 2011 or so.  That being said, if you need speakers, go to a salvage yard, or ebay. The ohm rating is different on the speakers than the base radio speakers.

[rockfangd]

Could you enlighten me on what you did a little more?

So you think I could not install speakers in the place of the (woofers)?

[Cadillac Jim]

Some 6" X 9" speakers are wide-range (some have a whizzer cone) and most are 8 Ohm.  Bass-only speakers are usually 4 Ohm speakers.  Active system speakers are often 2 Ohm, and would require huge speaker wires if the amp wasn't right there with the speaker.

Here are some of the sound system options from my list:

U1L    Radio AM Stereo/FM Stereo, Seek/Scan, Auto Reverse Music Search Cassette, CD, Clock, ETR
U1R    Radio AM Stereo/FM Stereo, Seek/Scan, Auto Reverse Music Search Cassette, CD, ETR
U1S    Player Multiple Compact DISC
U1Z    Player Multiple Compact Disc, Passenger Compartment
U2K    Digital Audio System S-Band
U37    Lighter, Cigarette
U3Q    Radio AM/FM, Stero, Seek/Scan, CD, DVD, NAV, Clock, DSP W/Voice REC MICRO
U3R    Radio AM/FM, Stero, WX, Seek/Scan, CD, DVD, NAV, Clock, DSP, W/Voice REC MICRO
U45    Radio AM, Stero/FMM, Stero, WX, RDS, CD, CDROM Navigation, Clock
U57    Speaker System Bose, 8, Dual F/D Pillar, Dual FRT DR MTD Dual RR DR MTD, Subwoof PDG Shelf, IP CRT, AMPLIF
U75    Antenna Power, Radio

This list isn't complete.  Check the option sticker on the bottom of your spare tire cover and get the option number for your sound system.  That way you can be sure you are getting the right parts when you identify a donor car at a recycling yard.

[rockfangd]

This looks to be the one I have.

11 speaker. 12 disc changer in trunk 

[Cadillac Jim]

This looks like the standard system for the Concours:

UT0    Radio, AM Stereo/FM Stereo, Seek/Scan, Auto Reverse Music Search Cassette, HPS, Clock, Electronically Display
UQ6    Speaker System 11, Quad Front Door-Mounted, Quad Rear Door-Mounted, Dual Rear Shelf, Center I/P, Amplifier
U1S    Player Multiple Compact DISC

The relevant option to look for in a donor car is UQ6.  If you see UQ4, it's a 4-speaker Bose speaker system.  Your 11-speaker system is also an active audio system.  The speakers are given in the schematic on page 8A-150-4.

Each door has a tweeter an a midrange speaker.  The instrument pane has one center speaker.  The rear shelf has two subwoofer speakers.  All are hooked directly to the Radio Amplifier, which is behind the rear seat back; you get at it through the trunk, I believe.

There was  a thread here a few months back where we looked at an aftermarket system.  One feature of the aftermarket radio was a subwoofer amplifier.  He found through the vendor and the installer that he needed to use the aftermarket radio without the subwoofer amplifier because the Cadillac factory system has more power and sounds better.

I don't have anything that tells me the speaker impedance.  If I had to guess I would say that the subwoofers are 4 Ohm but they could be 2 Ohm.  Note that they are inches away from the amplifier so the huge currents that these speakers need don't need a lot of wire.  All the speaker wires in the schematic are metric size 0.35, which is OK for very short runs to the subwoofers, and longer runs to the other speakers.

[winterset]

I just checked, and my rear subs (rds radio active audio from a 1999 Deville) are 4 ohm.  The part number looked like "8m41d2" but i couldn't be sure. And yea, all the speaker,sub,and tweeter wires are the same thickness.

 

[Cadillac Jim]

7 hours ago, winterset said:

I just checked, and my rear subs (rds radio active audio from a 1999 Deville) are 4 ohm.  The part number looked like "8m41d2" but i couldn't be sure. And yea, all the speaker,sub,and tweeter wires are the same thickness.

 

That works because the woofer wires are much shorter.

[rockfangd]

What do you guys think.

I would like to at least try them, but if it wont work I guess  I will have to try something else

[Cadillac Jim]

In the abstract, i.e. without having an amplifier in hand, preferably with schematic, to plan and test, but with the overall car schematic on page 8A-150-4 of the 1997 FSM, I have these thoughts to share:

• The Alpine SPJ-691C3 speaker that you show comes in pairs, rated 40 Watts continuous, but the 40 Watts is for both speakers together (20 Watts continuous each); they may be a bit short of power handing, although the 400 Watts peak rating tells me that you won't be tearing the cones.
• The speaker is full-range, and includes mid-range and tweeter cones.  If the power amplifier feeds these frequencies to the subwoofer connections, this might cause a distracting sound center at the rear for treble sounds.  If the amplifier has a crossover, this won't happen.
• I turned up 6" X 9" subwoofers in a web search.  An example is the Magnadyne LS69W, rated at 50 Watts continuous, sold singly, so a pair will handle 100 Watts, and there are no mid-range or tweeter cones.

For your future reference, here are the polarities and wire colors:

LEFT Positive:  DK BLU/WHT, to speaker terminal B from connector C2 terminal C4

LEFT Negative:  LT GRN/BLK, to speaker terminal A from connector C2 terminal C2

RIGHT Positive:  DK GRN, to speaker terminal B from connector C2 terminal C11

RIGHT Negative:  LT BLU/BLK, to speaker terminal A from connector C2 terminal C9

I would look for higher power and no mid-range or tweeter cones.  At the price of the Alpine SPJ-691C3 speakers, you can get subwoofer-only 6" X 9" speakers that handle more power.

[rockfangd]

Update 9/10/16.

oh my. I feel like a kid in a candy store. 

I want to mention I give lots of kudos to Vinces U pull it. The best by far salvage yard around my area. They have helped me in some way with almost every vehicle I have had.

Anyway I went there this morning . There were 2 cars with the same speakers(woofers) in the rear deck. All had the same problem. the foam was gone all the way around. So I clipped 2 plugs off of a set and brought them home.

I also noted something interesting about the Amp in one of them. It was a loaded 1997 Deville. It had the 11 speaker non bose system, same as mine but one difference. It had the DSP option. RPO UQ6. The amp is not the same as mine. It states active audio amp #16214866. All of the wires were identical to mine. 

My original amp was a audio amplifier #16214856. So heres the difference. There is 2 11 speaker setups. One without DSP (digital sound processing) and one with.

I had the one without. I had a Radio kicking around that had the DSP setup on it. It worked on the radio when you pushed the buttons but nothing changed the sound.

When I installed the Active Audio amp now it functions beautifully. I am so happy about that. I will post some pics later.

I then removed my subs from the rear deck and soldered the donor plugs onto the new alpine speakers and installed them.

The audio system sounds wonderful. Like a whole different system. So I reassembled everything. I will see what I can do about replacement subs but for now it is perfect.

Also the donor car had perfect rear vanity visors(incredibly hard to find intact) I installed them too. They look and function like brand new.

A good day today for sure. Hard work pays off. I also finished installing my Sirius antenna in the back window. 

[BodybyFisher]

[rockfangd]

Old unit

Replacement (note, this unit function fine with the 11 speaker system only but not all of the features will work without the ACTIVE AUDIO amp to go with it)

.

Speakers are the same on both types as long as the system is not BOSE. I also wanted to mention I hear no distortion or anything unusual with the new speakers in the Deck

[Cadillac Jim]

In point of fact 20 Watts twice is a huge amount of audio power.  The 400 Watts peak rating for the two of them leaves you free to turn it up and find what distorts first, the amp or the speakers, but whatever, it will be far above normal listening levels, and on a par with a sound source for a tailgating party or backyard barbecue.  Particularly if you open the windows.

Congratulations on your success with the audio system, and with the other refurbishments and repairs.

[rockfangd]

Thank you for all of your help, especially your wire color spec. I used that to ensure I soldered them properly. They were the same location on both the original and new

[Cadillac Jim]

Yeah, there is nothing more frustrating that getting the phasing wrong on one of two subwoofers, or of one speaker in an 11-speaker system.

[BodybyFisher]

I love scrap yards.  I think I am going to become a picker.   

I recall when I replaced the rear deck speakers in my deville it made a huge difference, I also changed my head unit and got dsp and a cd input if I recall.

[rockfangd]

So you did exactly what  I just did? except what speakers did you use?

\

[BodybyFisher]

I am sure I have a thread for it but yes.  But the 96 only had 6 spreakers. 

I think they were Cerwin Vega 3 way 6×9s.  

[rockfangd]

My 96 had 6 speakers too.

I dont know how many my 97 Seville has. I never think about it because it sounds wonderful already.

I had a 96 ETC with the Bose system.  Was very nice also

[Jan Olsson]

I have 8 speakers. Had to replace both the front door speakers. It has an amazing sound and can sure play as loud and clear as you can possibly want! Even my old -88 Eldorado had great speakers. I pulled the original unit and put in a Pioneer stereo because the OEM was only tape and radio.

[BodybyFisher]

The more I think about it I might have had 8 speakers, I forgot about the door speakers.

Here is where I replaced the 5 1/4 dash and 6x9 rear deck speakers.  My name is Scotty here:

 

 

[Cadillac Jim]

The door speakers were a tweeter and a mid-range, bringing the total to (2 per door) X (4 doors) + (2 rear deck subwoofers) + (1 dashboard) = 11 speakers.  This may have been your system in the 1996 Deville.

[BodybyFisher]

I think you are right Jim 

[Cadillac Jim]

The ETC is the radio with DSP and 12-CD changer, and the speaker system is the Bose (UP2/U4/U1S).  The Bose, as you know, uses acoustic wave speakers in the doors.  The door speakers have the amps in them, with the 12 Volt power switched by two relays in the trunk compartment relay center #3.  The radio/phone fuse is 10 Amp (the 12-CD changer runs off the 10 Amp COMFORT fuse) but speaker power to the relays comes from the 30 Amp AMP fuse.  The schematics in the 1997 FSM are on pages 8A-150-8 and -9.  If they aren't in your handy paper FSM I'll send you TIFFs of those two pages.