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Slight misfire, hesitation at moderate speed.


TheRoger

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I'm late getting a notice for this thread and things are focusing in on the real problem, but I have something to add about plugs.

They come from the factory gapped at 0.050.  I always check the gap, and if it isn't 50 thousandths, I assume that it's been dropped and discard it.

The reason that the factory uses metal heater hoses behind the engine is that it's very hot back there, and it's hard not to have silicone rubber hoses droop onto the exhaust manifold.

 

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-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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While @TheRoger wanted to re-gap the plugs that he installed, he needs to keep in mind that he changed the plugs, wires and checked the coils, and he has the same problem that he had BEFORE he did the work.  So its unlikely that regapping his plugs would make any difference.  

I am very surprised that the EGR pipe wasn't damaged and hope that he finds a leak in the exhaust or EGR system causing this fishbite.

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

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My post was to make the point that you don't re-gap new plugs.

We seem to be one step from solving the problem, and an air leak in the EGR pipe is a very likely suspect.

I hate those problems where there are no codes.  It's frustrating not to be able to work those problems in person.

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-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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13 minutes ago, Cadillac Jim said:

My post was to make the point that you don't re-gap new plugs.

We seem to be one step from solving the problem, and an air leak in the EGR pipe is a very likely suspect.

I hate those problems where there are no codes.  It's frustrating not to be able to work those problems in person.

Oh I know Jim, I just don't want to give Roger the extra push he needs to pull the plugs given that he said he was considering pulling and regapping them, I don't think it would a fruitful endeavor.

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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Roger?  The suspense is killing us.

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-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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Ok guys i may have found the culprit.  I put new plugs and wires on 6 months ago, which fixed my previous probelm until now.  Since i last posted this afternoon i did three things.  1, i removed the top EGR hose fitting, checked for cracks, looks in perfect condition, no change to symptoms.  2, I individually flex tubed each spark plug wire to rule out any sort of arcing, which made things much better but still would miss once in a while.  3.  Performed 2 back to back WOT procedures, which seemed to get her running a bit smoother but still didnt resolve my problem.  

In sheer desperation i drove, almost symtom free but not quite over to where my good cond. parts car was and swapped the four front wires, took the other four with me as well.  Previous wire swaps were done with my old set.  Totally symptom free the whole ride back hopefully its solved.  Parts car had newer looking ngk wires on it.  Ones i put on my car 6 months ago were walkers i got for a good price.  I guess they or one has gone bad? Will put the other four on tomrrow.  We will see hopefully this is not an intermittent phase and its solved.     

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Glad to hear it....when you said you changed the wires, I assumed they were new or known good...we took quite a roundabout. :D

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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Ok just put the other NKG wires on and drove around for a while.  Driving fine as could be.  There are only 7 wires in tthis set i found a tear on one.  Will see how she makes out for a couple days to make sure this problem is licked, and then will be ordering new AC delco wires.  The ones that came ont he car i figured would work since i had this problem before, found a torn wire, changed set and it worked fine.  So i swapped in the other 7.  I dont know how all this ended up being crappy wires again, but it was.  Will go with new delcos now.

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They are very logical, they help you diagnose.  Look at how much you learned during this!  We can help, consider joining as a supporting member to help support this resource,  the best benefit is no ads.

Glad you got it nailed down

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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Ok went about my business this morning the car was driving perfect.  ordered new delco wires they are on the way should arrive in a few days.  Nothing better than a mint condition deville, no codes, no issues. 

I guess the cheap wires started failing when they heated up after a few months, as i only swapped four of them at a time, didnt have a complete spare set until i got this parts car.  

 

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Really glad to hear it, the Deville is a wonderful car.  Unbeatable on the road for comfort and power.  Loved long trips in it.  

I had a 96 and did a lot of work to it, search my name for big jobs I did to it before 2009 or so.  My 96 on left.

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Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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The Northstar uses a very powerful ignition system that requires very high tension silicone plug wires, and installation of the plug wires in such a way that they do not cross under the beauty cover.  There is a routing diagram for the plug wires in the FSM; we can post it here if you like.  Cheaper wires will not last more than a few months.  Your safest bet is OEM, which you are putting on your car as soon as they arrive.

Congratulations on your success, and on getting your fine car into a fully trouble-free, zero-code state.

As BBF says, you are more than welcome to browse questions and help out.  I got started that way myself.

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-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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grim news.  Car was fine for about two days.  Went out yesterday and now it can barely drive.  Its hesitating in first gear and the issue has gotten much much worse all of a sudden. Car is hesitationg and jerking when throttle applied.  Does not do this when not in gear.  Traction and ABS lights came back on.  not sure whats going on here but im fed up for now will probably leave it a few days and come back with a cool head and try and see WTF is going on here.  No pcm codes. WIll pull all codes later and post.  

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If the traction and ABS lights are illuminated, there is a code stored in the diagnostic system.

Kevin
'93 Fleetwood Brougham
'05 Deville
'04 Deville
2013 Silverado Z71

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How are you pulling the codes?

I believe it is OFF and HIGH FAN to start the code dump, but I am not 100% sure on your car.  When you are in ALL lights light up, called a SEGMENT CHECK.

As KHE stated, IF you are getting ABS and traction control messages you DO, have codes. 

PLEASE, run DIAG again, and USE your cell phone to record it, I will give you my email address to send it to.  USE LOW REZ video setting, I certainly don't need HD, it will make the vid smaller.

This makes me wonder if you are getting all the codes. 

Don't worry, this is not a problem, just get the codes

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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Yes i was unclear I have a bunch of codes, all history, none of them under the PCM menu i am getting TCS and other codes will pull them when i get home.  nOw my wipers stopped working on my GMC 2500 have had it up to here with vehicles today .

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AAARRRGHHH.  Just checked codes out. TCS c1223 current, tcs c1234 current, PZM B0533 history, RFA U1000 history.  Im assuming the pulsing misfire sensation i was now feeling is due to a TCS issue and not a misfire or trans problem.  TC has done some funny stuff before but never anything like this. car is drivable today has lost first gear due to TCS light but is not pulsing/missing like yesterday when it was undriveable.  Will change LR bearing and see if thatr works.  Had this code before a long time ago, it went away on its own and i forgot about it.  It never did anything this weird though.  

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DTC C1223 LR Wheel Speed Sensor Input Signal is 0

DTC C1224 RR Wheel Speed Sensor Input Signal is 0

DTC B0533 Fuel Sensor Open/Shorted To B+

This is BOTH rears speed sensors PLUS the fuel sensor, something is going on in the BACK of the car.  My 96 manual wont help, we need a 99 manual to see if there is a common plug or ground.

Check that the rear speed sensors are plugged in, they might have been unplugged at some point.  DO NOT replace them before checking connections and doing diagnostics.  It is possible that the rears speed sensors are connected to another connector some place that is disconnected. 

Hub bearings USUALLY make a racket before they start causing speed sensor problems, are they moaning at highway speeds?  Do S turns at 40 or so and listen for moaning or droning from the rear hub bearings.  If you don't hear moaning groaning or droning they are probably good.

You keep wanting to parts replace, STOP thinking like that.

This won't cause a misfire nor do you show a misfire code.

 

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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update.  I replaced the LR bearing yesterday as i had the part already i bought months ago when i first got the codes, just never changed it when the codes went away on their own.  Now there is no TCS codes.  Still doing the same misfire thing but much worse now.  Now it does it off the line, as well as any time you try and accelerate under load.  I believe the car is starving for fuel, still no PCM codes.  I believe i have a weak fuel pump which still works but is not producing enough pressure, or has had the check valve fail.  It is getting worse by the day I took the car into town last night which was a risky proposition.  Have to deal with muy trucks wiper transmission today but will test fuel pressure next time i get a chance to work on the caddy.  

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also that second code was 1234 - LR sensor open circuit, not 1224.  

Now that the symptons are more acute the car appears to be starved for fuel, will throw the tester on it after i sort out these truck wipers

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You should still get a P0300 with a consistent miss.

CTS-V_LateralGs_6-2018_tiny.jpg
-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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