paran0id Posted February 10, 2005 Report Share Posted February 10, 2005 My 97 deville has been having problems recently. sometimes while idiling (like at a red light) the RPM's drop below the normal 625-675 range and the car will stall. It will usually start right back up again and may or may not continue to act up, and then it might be fine for the rest of the day. I have also noticed that it does it sometimes when i am decelerating to come to a stop. Usually if the behavior continues, I can keep it running by shifting to neutral and stepping lightly on the accelerator to keep the RPM's up while shifting into drive, but I know this is not good for the engine or tranny. In addition, the car will occasionally require three or four cranks of the ignition before it will start. The starting problem doesnt seem to matter as to whether the car is hot or cold, sometimes it does it, sometimes it doesnt. I dont know if it is related to the stalling or not. Here are my trouble codes, (all are history codes) any help as to where to begin looking is much appreciated. PCM P1377 IC Cam Pulse To 4X Reference Pulse P1599 Engine Stall or Near Stall Detected P0372 IC 24X Reference Circuit Missing Pulses P1520 Transmission Range Switch Circuit P1579 P/N to D/R at High Throttle Angle - Power Reduction Mode Active IPC B2710 PASSKey Open/Shorted Pellet U1255 Class 2 Communication Malfunction (Serial Data Line Malfunction) PZM B1971 Inadvertent Power Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted February 10, 2005 Report Share Posted February 10, 2005 Clean the throttle body with an old tooth brush and carb cleaner. Pay attention to the back side of blades and the bore where it contacts the blades. Did you notice RPM when it stalls? 550 is still normal in Neutral when engine is hot. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDK Posted February 10, 2005 Report Share Posted February 10, 2005 A nice assortment of history codes. 1. First and easy. Check the battery cables and connections as well as the various computer/sensor connections you can spot. Some or most data type codes might emanate from loss of elc power. 2. Next and fairly easy. Check the Fuel Pressure Regulator (FPR). It has a vac hose that when disconnected - should not drip fuel. It may be hard to search on FPR since it only has 3-letters (as with a lot of Caddy-tech). 3. A bit more work. In case of a failing fule pump. Check fuel pressure with a gage on the "Schraeder" fitting (similar to a HVAC port or tire stem valve) on fuel rail. Other forum members: Hey why is there not a fuel pressure sensor downstream of the FPR? It seems that the ability to code on this - would make diagnosing a number of relatively simple problems easy. Good luck and I'm certain you will get better help from others (its just late for the East Coast). Add power to leave problems behind. Most braking is just - poor planning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted February 10, 2005 Report Share Posted February 10, 2005 TDK is right, the more codes you have the better It simply indicates bad battery, cables, connections. If your FPR leaking you can start the car by pressinng the gas pedal to the floor and entering clear flood mode. But clean the TB first it never hurts and perhaps will fix most of your problems. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paran0id Posted February 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2005 Actually, I had recently cleaned the TB, (it was pretty gooked up) and the EGR however I never disconnected the battery afterwards to reset everything. I have just done this and I will report if it helped or not. Also I will check the FPR when I get a chance. (does anyone know if that vaccum hose check is done with the car running or not?). As for the fuel pressure test, I didnt want to spend $60 for a new guage that I might never use again, and although I have a fuel gauge that goes above 60PSI, I cannot seem to source a schrader fitting to connect it. I read elsewhere that an old R-12 recharge kit has one but noone seems to sell them any more.... anyone else know what uses one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paran0id Posted February 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2005 Oops.. I forgot to mention that this is a brand new battery, and the connectors are thoroughly cleaned and covered in dielectric grease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted February 10, 2005 Report Share Posted February 10, 2005 Also I will check the FPR when I get a chance. (does anyone know if that vaccum hose check is done with the car running or not?). Ignition ON to activate the fuel pump and the motor OFF pull out the hose and there should be no fuel coming from the nipple. You did not say anything about RPM before stalling. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paran0id Posted February 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2005 Well my car usually idles in drive at around 625-650 and when it stalls, it will drop below that to somewhere in the 400-500 range before dying. sometimes it seems to realize that it is about to stall and then surges up to 700-800 range but it usually drops again and stalls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted February 10, 2005 Report Share Posted February 10, 2005 Was the fuel rail replaced recently (under recall)? The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paran0id Posted February 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2005 yes it was Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted February 10, 2005 Report Share Posted February 10, 2005 Aha... do you see a correlation between the problem and the fuel line replacement? Many complained something went wrong with engine after the replacement. It usually was the set of plug wires. I am not sure it's the case, but I would definitely pay attention. Besides your plugs may lose the platinum pads. I would check that out as well. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paran0id Posted February 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2005 Ok, here goes!.. A few months before taking my car in for the fuel rail, I was having problems with my old plug wires arcing, so I replaced the plugs and wires with AC DELCO parts. A short time later, it was running just as bad as before and giving "engine misfire" codes again, so when I took it in for the fuel rail, I had them do a diagnosis. They came back and told me I needed new plugs and wires! After I explained that they had just been replaced, the tech came out and told me that the scan tool showed numerous misfires on #2 and actually showed me the plug where the arcing down over the ceramic wore a groove in it. He said since they were just replaced, this was likely caused by something conductive on the ceramic or a bad plug wire, so they replaced the #2 wire and plug, and it was good as new! until now Ever since I bought the car it would occasionally require more than one crank to start it, after the fuel rail it seems to have gotten worse. The stalling problem seems to correlate more with when i cleaned the TB (because the gas pedal would stick occasionally), and like i said it was pretty dirty. Hope that helps give more insight.. thank you all very much for your assistance!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted February 10, 2005 Report Share Posted February 10, 2005 Well, we seem to be closer . Can you check the #2 fuel injector for leaking? Something makes the plug go out. right? There are many posts for the procedure. If I remember the guy who did replace the faulty injector and was fine I'll let yyou know. The dirty TB, bad plug, leaking injector - more than enough to make the engine stall at low RPMs. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paran0id Posted February 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2005 I too will look for the procedure to check for leaking injectors, however when #2 went bad, the problem was arcing from the top (nipple) of the plug down to the engine block itself, along the outside of the ceramic. (underneath the plug boot) this has since been corrected, and the TB has been cleaned although I may go back and check it again to make sure I didnt miss anything...so i guess this leaves me with FPR and injectors to check.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted February 10, 2005 Report Share Posted February 10, 2005 You got mail. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimD Posted February 10, 2005 Report Share Posted February 10, 2005 .... PCM P1377 IC Cam Pulse To 4X Reference Pulse P1599 Engine Stall or Near Stall Detected P0372 IC 24X Reference Circuit Missing Pulses P1520 Transmission Range Switch Circuit P1579 P/N to D/R at High Throttle Angle - Power Reduction Mode Active .... I would pursue the P0372 and P1377 codes. You can easily check wiring and connectors before considering replacing the sensors. Do these codes return after clearing them?? Jim Drive your car. Use your cell phone. CHOOSE ONE ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paran0id Posted February 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2005 I would pursue the P0372 and P1377 codes. You can easily check wiring and connectors before considering replacing the sensors. Do these codes return after clearing them?? How would I go about persuing them? Im not sure what an IC CAM pulse, 4X reference pulse, or IC 24X reference circut are? what systems do they relate to? are there specific sensors that normally set these off? I have cleared the codes in the past and they come back, but I just disconnected and reconnected the battery and cleared codes again and ill see if they come back again.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC Posted February 11, 2005 Report Share Posted February 11, 2005 My brother's Buick Park Avenue use to stall on a regular basis at normal operating temperature. After it sat for about 20-30 minutes it would start, only to stall once the engine heated up again. It turns out the crankshaft sensor(s) went bad, which threw off the timing or something. After the sensor(s) was replaced, no more stalling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAUL T Posted February 11, 2005 Report Share Posted February 11, 2005 You might check your Idle Speed Control (ISC) actuator. There is a check in the service manual for that. You also mentioned a sticky gas pedal, check the cable above the ISC to see if it is binding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paran0id Posted February 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2005 I do not yet have a service manual for my car. Anyone out there willing to scan that in for me? The gas pedal would only stick the first time i pressed it after the car was sitting for a while, this was because of all the crud in the throttle body binding the throttle "butterfly". After i cleaned the TB is no longer sticks. Also, since I disconnected and re connected the battery yesterday, it hasnt stalled yet, but like I said it is intermittent, so well see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paran0id Posted February 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2005 Well, It just stalled again and threw up DTC P1377 IC Cam Pulse To 4X Reference Pulse . Does anyone out there know what this relates to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted February 11, 2005 Report Share Posted February 11, 2005 I believe that is related to the cam position sensor. I think there are two of them. Other than that I do not know much about them. Probably need replacing. See what someone more knowledgable says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted February 11, 2005 Report Share Posted February 11, 2005 There is a cam position sensor in the distributor. I am talking about 4.9 motor. I believe it is a switch based on Hall effect. The manual suggests disconnecting/reconnecting or replacing. Looks like the shaft should be removed to get access to the switch. You might want to look at this: http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?sho...t=0entry38792 The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted February 11, 2005 Report Share Posted February 11, 2005 yes it was Mine was replaced also and it went fine. I believe they used the same FPR. Take a look at the fuel pressure regulator (FPR). Pull off the vacuum hose and see if you see any gas present. In the photo below of my car, in the upper left hand corner you see the FPR with the vacuum hose facing the bottom of the photo, it's attached to the fuel rail. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted February 11, 2005 Report Share Posted February 11, 2005 Ok, see below, the code 1377 could be caused by misrouting of your spark plug wires when the fuel rail was done or since the fuel rail was done. Each injector has a triggering wire attached to it, if you are getting EMI strong enough to interfere from your ignition wires that could cause your code. I do not know if the problem you describe could be caused by this, also check the FPR Separate the ignition wires from the injector wires, allow them only to cross at 90 degrees don't allow them to run side by side. I spent about an hour the other night putting wire loom over my ignition wires and routing them away from metal and away from the injector wires. See the diagnostics chart below, I highlighted the section I thought you should look over, Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.