AdamCoover Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 Hello, My name is Adam and I am new today to this site and appreciate being allowed to use it and voice my issues here in the forums. I am from Erie, PA. I will be as short as possible, I bought a 2004 Deville from an estate. Has 90k on it and it is absolutely brand new to look at. It has a mildly rough idle, mildly rough start out from a stop.. It goes down the highway like a dream if driven at a mild rate. However if you get on it the engine light will illuminate and flash and the car feels as if it is dropping and picking up on two of the eight cylinders. When you calm down your lead foot the engine light will shortly turn to solid and not flash. I scanned the car multiple times and three times I got a P0410 and always get multiple P0300 codes.I began by trying to find vacuum leaks and found zero. Used propane, then used starting fluid just to be sure absolutely nothing. I for some reason push on one of the injectors and gas sprayed out the rail side of it. That on and one other would do that so I removed them all and put new o rings on all 8. They do not leak when pressed anymore. This however solved nothing. I went to a friends and used his solus and it showed many misfires occurring on 1,3,5,7 cylinders. Absolutely none on 2,4,6,8 ... I proceeded to purchase new spark plugs, and changed the front plugs. I moved to the rear and came across a valve in my way in which I removed. I was under the assumption it was a EGR valve the side outlet was full of a oxidation like dust. I replaced the rer plugs and went to the store to pick up the new EGR valve and which point I learn that what I had was not the EGR valve. So I ordered the secondary air valve that I had removed it will be here tomorrow. I applied power to the old one got nothing, took it apart tried to move the valve absolutely not happening. The interior of the valve looked like it may have sat in the ocean for some time lol. So that is what I have done, my questions are, would that valve cause one side of my engine to misfire as I described???? Where is the air pump located and how do I test it? Will that cause me the problems I am having?? Please help I tried to make this as short as I could but still be informative. I also heard there was a recall of sorts for that pump in that car. Is that true?? If so with the car being so old would they even honor it? If you don't believe the air system is causing my issue please tell me how to test it so I am sure it works and also give me your ideas and advice as in to what the issue may be that I am experiencing. I truly appreciate all of your time in reading this and thank you greatly for any help. Thanks in advance Adam Coover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Nunnally Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 One side of the engine misfiring I would suspect the coil pack. Try swapping the coil packs and see if the miss moves with the pack. Bruce 2023 Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing Follow me on: Twitter Instagram Youtube Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Fiero Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 I would start (the free route!) by swapping your front and rear coil pack/cassettes around, and see if the misfires then turn up on 2.4.6.8 (edit: And apparently bruce types just "this much" faster than me! ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Nunnally Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 http://www.obd-codes.com/p0410 so you need new air vent solenoid(s) to solve the P0410 and look at the coil pack on the P0300 Bruce 2023 Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing Follow me on: Twitter Instagram Youtube Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamCoover Posted June 24, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 Thank you guys, I would not assume the packs would fail in that fashion but I gladly will heed your advice. Hoever while I'm screwing with it I would really like to know how to test the secondary air pump. Please continue the advice. thanks a lot guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Nunnally Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 More reading on secondary air pumps: https://www.google.com/search?q=secondary+air+pump+caddyinfo&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#q=secondary+air+pump+caddyinfo+site:caddyinfo.ipbhost.com Bruce 2023 Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing Follow me on: Twitter Instagram Youtube Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamCoover Posted June 24, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 33 minutes ago, Bruce Nunnally said: More reading on secondary air pumps: https://www.google.com/search?q=secondary+air+pump+caddyinfo&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#q=secondary+air+pump+caddyinfo+site:caddyinfo.ipbhost.com thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Nunnally Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 The northstars use two coil packs, and each coil pack supplies one bank of sparkplugs. The coil packs are not unusual maintenance items. That is why that is a first guess when one bank is misfiring. Bruce 2023 Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing Follow me on: Twitter Instagram Youtube Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockfangd Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 personally I would not swap the coil packs, I would just replace the one in question. I had to do both on my eldorado. One failed shortly after the other. Found hairline cracks all over on both of them. Basically if you swap the coil pack you may end up damaging the other. I You are on the right track for sure. Welcome to Caddyinfo GM FAN FOREVER Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 3 hours ago, Bruce Nunnally said: One side of the engine misfiring I would suspect the coil pack. Try swapping the coil packs and see if the miss moves with the pack. I agree, check power connections to the coil pack. The entire 4 coil pack ranges from $140 to $172 at rockauto.com. If you buy from them I have a 5% discount number you are welcome to use. Its not much but it pays for shipping at least. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamCoover Posted June 24, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 My north star has a coil pack on each cylinder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamCoover Posted June 24, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 That's why it's so odd the back side it acting up as they are individual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Nunnally Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 Yes, looking at images of each set of 4 however, such as this one from 1A Auto, they have one connector coming in that then distributes the signal to the 4 coil-on-plug modules. So if the misfire is related to spark delivery, perhaps that main connector is corroded or has an intermittent issue? Bruce 2023 Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing Follow me on: Twitter Instagram Youtube Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamCoover Posted June 24, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 Ahhh. That would make sense and I would agree. Let's get this rear air valve on and see what she does. That will be my next course of action. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 I will say that there are 2 types according to rockauto, they make this statement "Works with updated GM design only; Compare Original to Image. Updated GM coil will have a black epoxy fill (old design will have a white fill and requires the coil to be replaced as the rail pack)", there appear to be single coils and coil packs that contain all 4. Can you remove each coil separately? If you can, there may be an ignition module for the misfiring bank. Rockauto also sells the Ignition control module. Since you are having misfiring on the ODD bank, its something that is impacting ONLY that bank, obviously. If you go to rockauto and view coils for your year you will notice the two types, here is a link to rockauto http://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/cadillac,2004,deville,4.6l+v8,1423808,ignition Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamCoover Posted June 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2016 Hey guys, I got the valve and installed it. I was short on time to run the car after I was done. However I did run it for about 5 minutes. It ran the same it not worse, however, it seemed to be getting better. When I got back after the car it smelled. The exhaust gas wasn't the smell I opened the hood that wasn't were it was I'm thinking it was one of the cats.??? If that valve I replace was bad and the rear side of the engine was always misfiring would that valve cause the rear of the engine to run rich or lean? No that it functions the cat would be dirty correct?? Thus causing the smell as its burning off?? Also the reason it seemed that the car began to run better>>>??????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamCoover Posted June 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2016 Ignition module.... Is there a module for the rear and one for the from or is it just one box or if it just the ecu that controls the coils??? Trying to find all plausible causes to I can continue to tackle them. Its just a shame the car is so so nice for its age. Not quite like my 16 escalade but technology has come a long way lets say lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Nunnally Posted June 25, 2016 Report Share Posted June 25, 2016 The air injection pump only runs for a short period after a cold start to allow the catalytic converter to heat up faster. If one side of the engine was misfiring for an extended period, then the combustion was incomplete and the exhaust was over-rich. Bruce 2023 Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing Follow me on: Twitter Instagram Youtube Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barczy01 Posted June 25, 2016 Report Share Posted June 25, 2016 04 was the start of the ignition modules in the pcm. You could maybe disconnect a coil to cylinder individually. The good working coil will cause the engine to run worse, the bad coil will barely change the rpm. You might just have a bad or oil soaked spark plug. 2004 were bad for cat converters too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamCoover Posted June 26, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 Ok so I had time to pick the car up today and drive it home. Here's my findings. The idle isn't terrible but it does mis slightly. When you go at all it's good it's smooth etc. however at roughly 75% throttle to 100% is where it's acts up. You don't go to 75% you would never know anything was even remotely wrong with it. Very smooth very strong. So with this info what do you guys suggest I chase now? Thanks regards adam coover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldCadTech Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 Did you pull the plugs and check them for carbon tracks? Also, as @barczy01 mentioned check for oil fouling and/or fuel fouling? Check the plug gap and make sure none of the plugs are cracked also you should not be able to turn the porcelain or threaded end of the plug while holding the other. THERE IS ALWAYS ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB RIGHT - THERE IS NEVER ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB AGAIN !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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