Scotty Posted September 24, 2005 Report Share Posted September 24, 2005 Hallo Scotty, now I´ve clean the throttle body and the EGR valve (with new gasket). And I can not find the FPR on my ´95 Eldo ? Can you help me ? Frank Can someone help Frank with the FPR on a 95 NS? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfreezn Posted September 24, 2005 Report Share Posted September 24, 2005 Frank and all, Well, I read this whole thread and I can't believe no one has recognized this problem as the idle speed controller. The ECU is looking for a closed contact in the ISC with the throttle closed. That contact is either dirty or needs adjustment, and the ECU is sending a command to open the throttle. IF you keep your foot lightly touching the accelerator pedal, you can feel the ISC cycling very lightly> I have purchased one new ISC, but since then I have had to remove and clean (the points) in the ISC twice over 30,000 miles The points will very much remind you of ignition points used in distributors before the electronic age. I have big hands and the only way I could figure to remove the ISC is to remove the throttle body first. Even still, the job should take less than two hours. Good luck, Jim in Phoenix Jim in Phoenix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted September 24, 2005 Report Share Posted September 24, 2005 Good pick up Jim, can you describe how to clean the contact, the ISC motor comes apart? I don't know the 95 NS well enough to have known that it had an ISC motor, my 91 4.9 had one, but I never had to clean the contacts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted September 25, 2005 Report Share Posted September 25, 2005 Here's a drawing of the FPR location. It's not all that clear, but it's the only one I can find in my 1995 manual. The manual states that the pressure should be 41-47psi with ignition ON and motor OFF. Regards, Warren There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted September 25, 2005 Report Share Posted September 25, 2005 Thanks Warren, perfect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted September 25, 2005 Report Share Posted September 25, 2005 Here are some Photos of ISC (Idle Speed Control) motor stuff from the 1995 FSM. It's kinda large at a total of 610KB. Photo of "Idle Speed Check" containing a block drawing and text (127KB): http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y299/WBucket/ISCCheck.jpg Photo of "Troubleshooting Chart 6C-6" (221KB): http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y299/WBucket/ISCChart6.jpg Photo of "TP Sensor/Idle Learn Procedure" (262KB): http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y299/WBucket/ISCLearn.jpg I'm running out of space on that server, so if you have a "felt need" for any of these photos please download them quickly. I can't guarantee they will be there much longer. Regards, Warren There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted September 25, 2005 Report Share Posted September 25, 2005 Thanks Warren I saved them, and will send them to Frank, Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted September 25, 2005 Report Share Posted September 25, 2005 Ok Detectives, I sent Frank the ISC information provided by Warren. This was his response, it has been translated from German to English. What do you think now? Which I forgot to mention, while stationary and/or in the no-load operation am the number of revolutions constantly with approx.. 700 RPM without any Schankung. The speed fluctuations arise "only" when gas taking away, whereby it is largest in the range 1500 to 2500 RPM. There then the number of revolutions varies over approx.. 200-300 RPM. As said, only when gas taking away within range mentioned above. Below approx.. 1400 and above approx.. 3000 RPM does not occur these fluctuations. For this reason, I believe it not at the ISC engine lie, since this regulates nevertheless only the idling speed, or not PS there is no translation for Schankung my guess is SEARCHING. His uneven searching or fluctuations is above idle when he takes his foot off the gas moving while above idle up to 2500 RPM. I have to look at what that closed contact does in the ISC motor and get into the details. I have not had an ISC motor for a few years now, this is where we miss out guru.. quick answers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted September 25, 2005 Report Share Posted September 25, 2005 Frank, Barry94 wrote this in a prior post, this is what Jim in Phoenix was referring to! http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?sho...e+speed+control ************************************************************ Sounds like you have everything under control. (Lots of spare parts) A few years ago I had a similar problem with the idle. I removed the ISC and took it apart. I found the problem. When the accelerator is released it hits the plunger which depresses and closes a set of points inside the ISC. This tells the computer/ISC that the accelerator is released and that the computer needs to control the idle speed. The speed is controlled by a motor in the ISC. What was happening was the points were closing, however they were not closing firmly enough to make a good electrical connection. The computer/ISC didn't know to go to the idle mode. I cleaned and adjusted the points and it's been working since. *********************************************************** THE ONLY QUESTION THAT I HAVE IS CAN THESE POINTS/CONTACTS AFFECT THE ENGINE ABOVE IDLE AS THE ENGINE/VEHICLE IS SLOWING DOWN OR COASTING? MIKE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfreezn Posted September 26, 2005 Report Share Posted September 26, 2005 <<THE ONLY QUESTION THAT I HAVE IS CAN THESE POINTS/CONTACTS AFFECT THE ENGINE ABOVE IDLE AS THE ENGINE/VEHICLE IS SLOWING DOWN OR COASTING? MIKE >> Sorry I have been gone all day. Frank, the idle speed can be normal and steady and ISC will defnitely cause the coast down problem you are describing The idle speed controller can and does have control up to about 2000 RPM. This is especially true on coast down and sometimes you can coast forever with this thing malfunctioning. And it will not set a code, of this I am positive. Once again, you can actually feel the ISC bumping the throttle if you put your foot lightly on the throttle. Watch the tach for visible signs of the ISC bumping the throttle while coasting at 50MPH and less. There are 4 wires on the ISC connector. Pins # A and B are the contacts and C and D operate the stepper motor. You could unplug the connector and put a contnuity tester across the A and B while push/pull on the end of the ISC shaft. Once you have the ISC in your hand you will see that the mounting bolts (3) also hold it together. The single set of contacts is easily seen and should just need cleaning or burnishing at most. You should never file points but a green 3M scuff pad or equal will do. I will take some pictures of my spare ISC and attach them tomorrow. Jim in Phoenix Jim in Phoenix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted September 26, 2005 Report Share Posted September 26, 2005 Once you have the ISC in your hand you will see that the mounting bolts (3) also hold it together. The single set of contacts is easily seen and should just need cleaning or burnishing at most. You should never file points. NO! YOU SHOULD NEVER FILE POINTS! Only burnish them. Or polish them. FILING them only increases their surface to air ratio dramatically. They will "rust" or "oxidize" far faster. Regards, Warren There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FSchuett Posted September 26, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 26, 2005 Hello everyone... where is these ISC in my ´95 ELDO ? Thank you Frank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlinde Posted September 26, 2005 Report Share Posted September 26, 2005 Hi, I live in Sweden and have had a similar problem in my 93 Eldorado TC. It has never occured to me that the ISC can be the problem but I have done all possible other things like changing plugs, wires, cleaned EGR, changed PCM etc and a little while ago I even tried to figure out if there is a better PROM-program... The idea of changing the ISC and/or check the contacts is a new approach as my car has this same problem at cruising speeds and it is also very evident at cruise control downhills. It is never felt during acceleration. I have been thinking about why the car is a little unsteady or nervous even at low speed coasting when there is no throttle opening at all. I will go through the manual and check up the contact thing as suggested by jfreezn. And maybe later on buy a new ISC. For me it is really worth a try as this chuggle has annoyed me for some time now. /Jan Linderholm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted September 26, 2005 Report Share Posted September 26, 2005 Let us know how this turns out Jan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfreezn Posted September 26, 2005 Report Share Posted September 26, 2005 Hello everyone... where is these ISC in my ´95 ELDO ? Thank you Frank Frank, Look for it just below the throttle body, contacting the throttle linkage. I will attach a picture. Jim Jim in Phoenix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfreezn Posted September 26, 2005 Report Share Posted September 26, 2005 More pictures Jim in Phoenix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted September 26, 2005 Report Share Posted September 26, 2005 Hello everyone... where is these ISC in my ´95 ELDO ? Thank you Frank HERE: There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted September 26, 2005 Report Share Posted September 26, 2005 Warren and Jim, you guys are fantastic! Great help! I can't wait for Frank to get this nailed down... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted September 26, 2005 Report Share Posted September 26, 2005 Frank, Here is a slightly better photo (148KB) that also contains text: http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y299/WBuc...ISCActuator.jpg Regards, Warren There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted September 26, 2005 Report Share Posted September 26, 2005 Warren and Jim, you guys are fantastic! Great help! I can't wait for Frank to get this nailed down... Scotty, I'm just giving my factory service manual away 1/4 page at a time. Jim looks like he's parting his car out! Regards, Warren P.S. It seems YOU'RE the only one that's taken up German as a second language! There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted September 26, 2005 Report Share Posted September 26, 2005 Caddyinfo members, helping Cadillac lovers worldwide! Canada, Amsterdam, Sweden and Germany, pretty cool I think that last translation got us on track to figuring this out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted September 26, 2005 Report Share Posted September 26, 2005 Caddyinfo members, helping Cadillac lovers worldwide! Scotty, Turn your cell phone ON. Regards, Warren There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted September 26, 2005 Report Share Posted September 26, 2005 Thanks. There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FSchuett Posted September 27, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 27, 2005 Hello Scotty, Warren J and jfreezn... thank you very much for you help ! Next weekend I want to clean the ISC and I hope the problem is away... Thank´s ;-) With best wishes from good old germany Frank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted September 27, 2005 Report Share Posted September 27, 2005 Frank, Best wishes from our side as well! Regards, Warren There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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