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It's All over...


mattd

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For anybody who tried to give advice I just wanted to say thanks.

Today I took my car to another mechanic I he finelly confirmed 100% that my car needs a new head gasket. He really didn't give me the price cause I'm not really looking to fix it. He did say the labour is about 18 hrs....and just for labour it would run about 1500 plus parts and what not. So for now I'm just gonna park my aurora and have to go out and get myself a beater. I simply can't believe my luck lately...starter twice, some $700 module, alternator, tensioner pulley, and now head gasket....I'm done. This car is a piece of junk, and I'm not loosing anymore money in it. So for now thanks for everything...it's been fun. :(

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You may be able to fix the head gasket leak with block seal/head gasket sealant. Don't necessarily give up. I have used the Solder Seal/Block Seal on a blown head gasket and it worked. If you try a sealant just make sure you read and follow the instructions. Block Seal can seal a radiator if its not flushed according to the instructions.

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Hey I didn't think of using a sealent cause I didn't know that they acctually worked. My gasket isn't completely gone yet. I don't have any coolant in the oil and it doesn't apprear to be smoking yet either...I definitely can't smell coolant when the car is running...but it's pressurizing the cooling system and forcing coolant out of the reservois through the cap. The funny thing is 2 mechanics did a compression test on it just last week and neither found a leak :) This last guy though is suppose to be pretty good though...he said it's fairly obvious...something about carbon hydretes in the coolant and smell of the coolant...I don't really know but he seemed to know his stuff. As far as sealents go are there any good brands I could try...maybe enough to at least be albe to trade in the car and so it doesn't blow up on the dealer the next day. Any advice would be great.

As far as my Aurora goes I don't really know what I'll do with it yet but it's pretty worthless right now. I'll look around maybe I can get it fixed cheaper somewhere...never hurts to ask around. More than likely I'll send it to dealer auction where they'll give me peanuts for it...As far as buying another Caddy, I'd love to but I'll wait and buy something later on when I can afford something little newer and less milege...I'm done witht these hight milege cars...they cost too much...These are really nice cars but when they get old all the little repairs cost a fortune...maybe I'll just buy a sports car for the summer...a nice Camaro or Firebird...we'll see I guess. For now I'll try that sealent see how that goes...maybe I can salvage some of the money I just lost. Thanks for the advice

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Matt, it's too bad to hear about your Aurora, but remember the cost of the car payments on a newer car. I've spend thousands over 3 years maintaining my '97 model, but if I had bought a newer one, I'd have spent thousands in just a few months on the payments. Spread repair costs out over years and I think you'll find that owning an older car is quite a bit cheaper than a newer one... Figure a new car will come with at least a $300/month payment. That's $3600/year. Do you really spend that much on your Aurora for maintenance? If you really like it, I'd advise doing the repairs.

Good luck with whatever you do!

Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond)

"When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?"

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Hey I didn't think of using a sealent cause I didn't know that they acctually worked.  My gasket isn't completely gone yet.  I don't have any coolant in the oil and it doesn't apprear to be smoking yet either...I definitely can't smell coolant when the car is running...but it's pressurizing the cooling system and forcing coolant out of the reservois through the cap.  The funny thing is 2 mechanics did a compression test on it just last week and neither found a leak :)  This last guy though is suppose to be pretty good though...he said it's fairly obvious...something about carbon hydretes in the coolant and smell of the coolant...I don't really know but he seemed to know his stuff.  As far as sealents go are there any good brands I could try...maybe enough to at least be albe to trade in the car and so it doesn't blow up on the dealer the next day.  Any advice would be great.

As far as my Aurora goes I don't really know what I'll do with it yet but it's pretty worthless right now.  I'll look around maybe I can get it fixed cheaper somewhere...never hurts to ask around.  More than likely I'll send it to dealer auction where they'll give me peanuts for it...As far as buying another Caddy, I'd love to but I'll wait and buy something later on when I can afford something little newer and less milege...I'm done witht these hight milege cars...they cost too much...These are really nice cars but when they get old all the little repairs cost a fortune...maybe I'll just buy a sports car for the summer...a nice Camaro or Firebird...we'll see I guess.  For now I'll try that sealent see how that goes...maybe I can salvage some of the money I just lost.  Thanks for the advice

I would be VERY careful assuming that your engine is shot. I don't know your engine, but in the NS, the water pump is driven by a small belt and its own tensioner, in the NS if the water pump belt/tensioner is not operating properly it will overheat the same way yours is... I would want to do a compression test and a cooling system pressurization test and SEE the results personally before I junked my car. Maybe someone can chime in as to how the water pump is driven in your engine.

Mechanics fall into traps and make assumptions, and that you had two other mechanics NOT confirm the head gasket as a problem would concern me, NOW you found a mechanic to tell you the worst and you possibly fell into a trap of junking it, WHY?, because of this statement "I simply can't believe my luck lately...starter twice, some $700 module, alternator, tensioner pulley, and now head gasket....I'm done. This car is a piece of junk, and I'm not loosing anymore money in it".

What did the compression test show? What did the cooling system pressurization test show? How did he determine 100% that its a head gasket when two other mechanics could not? Did anyone look at the radiator to see if its flowing or clogged.

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Agree with Scotty.

Why you think this is a head gasket blown problem? Just because mechanic "is suppose to be pretty good though...he said it's fairly obvious...something about carbon hydretes in the coolant and smell of the coolant..." and "he seemed to know his stuff"?

You changed starter twice, you really think both starter were bad?

You changed the alternator and tensioner pulley. What I think, that in that case alternator was actually good and tensioner could be exersised. And the $700 module was changed in the same time? Mechanics will change everything if you will pay. That is their job (at least that what most of them understand under definition of their job, unfortunately). I remember the case when deallership told the guy that he has a head gasket problem and $3000 for repair. The guy left car in a garage for an year (didn't have a money). After the year (!!!) the problem was solved for around $75.

I hope the problem is something else.

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Thats sucks man! Maybe you can buy a Cadillac now! What are you going to do with your Aurora!

He does have a Cadillac LOL :lol: No but If I were you I would look into it and see exactly what the problem is! It would be so hard to just leave a car like that I would think!

user posted image

Defending Northstar perf a qtr mile at a time!!!!

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If your head gasket is shot, you should have a good amount of bubbling in the coolant reservoir, while the engine is running. Also, the coolant temp should rise rather quickly (faster than normal). Have a mechanic check your system again, but ask to watch him do it. With the engine cold, hook up the coolant system pressureizer. Start the engine. Almost as soon as the engine starts, while it is cold, if you have a blown head gasket, the needle on the tool, will fluctuate like crazy. It will jump from 4 psi, to 15psi, back to 4 psi, in a rapid motion (PSi is an example, not exact poundages). That shows the combustion entering the cooling system. If this does not occur, you may have a coolant blockage somewhere, or like stated above, a water pump belt, or thermostat problem. Check this first, and go from there. But, see it for yourself, do not take a mechanics word for it.

Don

"Modern warriors saddle iron horses of chrome."

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Matt, you may want to consider checking the local salvage yards for a good used engine. It would probably be cheaper than a rebuild. Keep the old engine for parts.

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Even if it is a head gasket they you may try sealers i had a hole in my head gasket over an inch long in my 1981 Corvette i put two sealers in it and it sealed it, but dont get rid of the car becasue of that like somebody said its cheaper to fix it then getting a new car, i have a 2002 AUrora but i still keep my 1988 Cutlass SUpereme with over 200k miles on it, i spend about 1500 a year to keep it running but i think its worth it because i wont get a good car for that money. Dont give up

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I know that this may sound really stupid but I have a question where are the head gaskets and what do they do? I new this would sound dumb but i'm trying to learn and I figured if i didn't ask i wouldn't learn so I'm asking HA HA :D I here that they go quite often on Northstar engines someone even told me that Northstars are headgasket eaters. Why are they so expensive to replace????

user posted image

Defending Northstar perf a qtr mile at a time!!!!

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I know that this may sound really stupid but I have a question where are the head gaskets and what do they do?  I new this would sound dumb but i'm trying to learn and I figured if i didn't ask i wouldn't learn so I'm asking HA HA :D  I here that they go quite often on Northstar engines someone even told me that Northstars are headgasket eaters. Why are they so expensive to replace????

A head gasket is a gasket the separates the cylinder head and the block. It separates the coolant passages, cylinders and oil passages.

On the NS engine when the head bolts are removed some of the aluminum material is removed with the bolts. If you don't time-sert the engine, there is a chance that enough of the aluminum thread bolt material was removed that when you replace the head and re-torque the bolts the combustion pressure could pull the bolts out. Then a leak develops allowing hot combustion gases to penetrate the water jackets super heating the water and over heating the engine.

In the old days head gaskets were a hard job but very staightforward and doable. I have done head gaskets/valve jobs on 429, 472, 500 caddies, 283 Chevys, an Olds 350 because the timing chain bent every valve, and a four cylinder Chevy Monza that had a cracked head, and other than being a back breaking job its fairly easy. All of those blocks were cast iron and there was no danger of threads pulling.

Today its necessary to time-sert the NS engine before the heads are replaced to ensure that the bolts will not pull out, the time involved with time-serting and R&Ring the engine causes the expense.

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What is involved when time-serting an engine? What is time-serting?

A "Timesert" is somewhat like a helicoil (but beefier), if you know what that is. If not, it is basically a replacement thread. http://www.timesert.com/. Timeserting is the proccess of drilling out the damaged threads (head bolt holes), retapping new threads for the "timesert" (insert) and installing it. The problem, especially on the Northstar is that the engine must be removed. I have heard of one or two doing it with the engine in the car but it must be next to impossible.

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wow...thanks for all the input guys, but don't think I haven't really looked into it. This last guy was my last hope and he simply confirmed what I really expected to hear...I'm not just going on what he said. I've been looking for the cause of this for about 3 weeks now...it almost became my second job :)...there is serious bubbling in the system when the car reaches it's operating temp I can hear it when the system is pressurized. I've already replaced the thermostat and made sure that the coolant is the right consistancy 50/50 that is. Installed a new cap on the surge tank...I just don't know what else it could be. My regular mechanic told me that it kind of looked like a head gasket in the very early stages. This guy simply confirmed that. The thing that bugs me the most is that car runs so cool...after I replaced the thermostat it hasn't ran above 95 degrees cel, which also means the water pump is working good. I don't see any coolant in the oil. As far as white smoke goes...I live in Canada and it's freakin cold now...every car seems to smoke :). I wonder if anyone knows how safe is it to drive it for another week or so? The guy told me not to drive or I could really demage the motor. I just need a week or so to find another car. For now I parked it at work and borrowed a car.

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In terms of the water pump, if the belt assembly is not functioning properly, it will function adequately UNTIL you stress the engine with high speed, hills or heavy acceleration, take one more look at the water pump belt, tensioner, etc, if you are not circulating water you will hear bubbling as the water is boiling...

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I know that this may sound really stupid but I have a question where are the head gaskets and what do they do? I new this would sound dumb but i'm trying to learn and I figured if i didn't ask i wouldn't learn so I'm asking HA HA  I here that they go quite often on Northstar engines someone even told me that Northstars are headgasket eaters. Why are they so expensive to replace????

The head gaskets seal the heads to the main engine block. They prevent hot combustion gases from escaping so the pistons utilize the power from burning the fuel/air mixture as effectively as possible. They also keep the cooling water out of the cylinders. As a reference, the place where you add oil to the engine is the top of one of the heads.

N* engines typically last well above 100K+ miles, so the folklore of "head gasket eaters" is a matter of perspective. Considering older model cast iron engines were shot around 80K miles, the N* is a very good design from a wear resistance standpoint. The durability of the engine wear parts is not without some risks since this now increases the exposure of the head gaskets (and other seals) to more hours of pressure, corrosion and heat. At some point something has to wear out.

The replacement costs for head gaskets on a N* are typically caused by the need to repair the cylinder head bolt threads in the block. These are usually damaged during removal and it's not a good thing to have them fail during reassembly or when the car is back on the road. It is easier to remove the engine from the car to perform this work and it adds hours to the job.

The only critique I have regarding the head gaskets is the very small sealing land at the cylinder head / main block interface. It this land were wider, it would reduce the potential for failure from corrosion or infrequent overheating from a coolant system problem over the wear life of the engine. Alternatively it may be possible to use more durable materials in the head gaskets. Maybe newer versions will have this problem resolved somehow.

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