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OVerheating... Coolant spilling off


AliRaza

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Tested the existing pump and the pulley and the tentioner. The tentioner was slipping and was not tight enough. I took the belt out and put it again after lubricating teh spring and then the pump started turning right.

I don't think it is the spring that needs to be lubricated. It is the pivot point for the tensioner arm. Is that what you lubed?

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However even with temperature all teh way to three quarters, fan doesnt come up by itself unless I turn the AC on. Also only one fan kicked in. The smaller fan is still off.

I would advise you to add the coolant temp to your DIC, so you can check the actual coolant temperature. Depending on how the actual gauge on your particular car is calibrated, the system may or may not be working properly. Assuming the A/C is locked out, the fans (both of them I believe) will come on low speed when the coolant temp reaches about 229*F. They will turn on high speed closer to 240*F I understand. Depending on how your temperature gauge is calibrated, your engine may not have been to 229*F yet.

But like I said before, I ~believe~ that both fans operate at all times...in two speeds, low or high. So the fact that only one of your fans was operating would lead me to believe that maybe one of the fan control relays has gone bad? I'd add the coolant temp to your DIC and lock the A/C out and if you can verify that the engine is going well over 230*F without the fans turning on, I'd have further diagnosis done on the fan control system.

Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond)

"When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?"

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Larry / Jason

Thanks a lot for your posts. Larry you are right. I lubricated teh pivot post. IT was jammed badly.

Jason,

I think I got the same model as you have, 97 Seville SLS. Would you mind telling me how to read the engine temperature on DIC???

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Guys,

I dont know if I am completely screwed or its just being desperate....

This is todays story

I checked all the cooling system, fixed teh second fan that was not running yesterday and chenged teh radiator (Surge tank cover), got teh readiator cleaned and have the right ratio of antifreeze in the car.

Ran the car for fifteen minutes on idle and temperature was at the center. AFter it crossed teh center line, the fan kicked in and bring the temperature down again to half.

Now we took the car for a ride. As we crossed about three miles, the temperature started to move up again. I parked teh car to check if the fan is working or not but both fans were working at full speed. Temperature keep climbingup. The air from teh engine top was not as hot as I was expecting. However the coolant started boiling and came started dripping from the overflow pipe.

AFter that, I shut teh engine down. AFter five minutes started it up agian and this time temperature started gowing down. and went back to half. Ran the car again for a mile and a half and temperature started climbing up again. Stopped teh car again. Checked teh fan, and both fans were running. STopped teh engine, waited for few minutes, started the engine again and it was 3/4th there. Started to run again and temperature this time started going down to half again. By the time I reached home (another one mile) it came down to half. Parked teh car and temperature was stable.

Am I completely screwed adn toasted now? IS it something that needs a trip to teh dealer? Or something that can be even fixed? Is the engine gone? Is this the head gasket? When I started teh car, I saw one or two bubbles in every minutes for a while and after that it stopped.

PLEASE HELP...

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You said that you replaced the surge tank cap and in an earlier post, the thermostat. When I replaced my surge tank cap with a 15lbs one bought at Advance Adapters, I had overflow problems, I took it off, bought one direct from the GM dealership and the overflow problems stopped. Also, was the new thermostat bought directly from GM? I no longer trust certain parts unless they are OEM.

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I am not sure about the fan installation. I will check it again but they look ok. I changed the surge tank cap to original from GM. For thermostat, I have removed the thermostat for now just to test the cooling system

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I'm not sure, but I think on the NS, you HAVE to have the thermostat installed for the cooling system to operate properly. As far as the fans go, just see which way the air is blowing. Put a peice of paper on the front side of the radiator when the fans are running. It should pull the paper against the radiator.

Jeff

Jeff

98 Concours

90 Seville

04 Corvette

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I am not sure about the fan installation. I will check it again but they look ok. I changed the surge tank cap to original from GM. For thermostat, I have removed the thermostat for now just to test the cooling system

The cooling system will not work properly without the thermostat in place! It controls the flow of coolant from the radiator as well as recirculation within the engine. Insufficient internal flow could lead to localised boiling. The few bubbles you saw after the radiator replacement could have been air being purged from the system.

___________________________________________________

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Some other things to check per the service manual.

1. Inspect and clean the radiator fins.

2. Check for and inoperative thermostat bypass.

3. Check the cooling system passage for obstruction.

4. Check the throttle body circuit flow.

5. Check for incorrect or damaged radiator filler cap.

Jeff

Jeff

98 Concours

90 Seville

04 Corvette

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It sure doesn't sound like a head gadket. If the head gasket was bad, either it would be using coolant ie: burning it and putting it out the tail pipe (not the case from what you say). OR it would be pressurizing the cooling system and you would see bubbles in the surge tank and it would smell of exhaust. It kinda sounds like the tensioner is hanging up. If it was "rusted badly" just squirting some oil on it may have freed it up a bit but the rust is still in the pivot causing the tensioner to hang up. Perhaps it needs to be removed, disassembled, wire wheeled, greased and reassembled (if it can be) or replaced. Just another shot in the dark.

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Larry,

Thanks for thsi refreshing message. I was falling down like crazy in a dark hole....

I will do and will report back. As I mentioned earlier, I love this car and waited for it for a long time. And now I got it, I really dont want it to slip away like this...

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I think your getting there. It really doesn't sound like anything that you're going through and eliminating possibilities won't solve pretty quick.

I made the samemistake of trying to run the car without a thermostat. Bbobinski set me straight on that theory with that style of thermo. and water passages. When I put the thermostat back in lo and behold replacing the defective pulley HAD cured the problem, but the missing thermostat had masked the correct repair!

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Thanks a million guys.

Here is teh update. My cousin brought the car from his house (where we were working on it) to my house (About 25 miles at an average speed of about 45mph. The temperature was in teh middle throughout. Except when he went on teh highway and went to 60mph. There the temperature raised about 10 more percent but then came back to half within a couple of minute.

When he came here and car was idling, temperature went up again for a while. Its intermitent. I think I am going to work on the tentionaer pulley tonite and the thermostat. Will fill it again with right mix of coolant and will operate again.

I want ot change teh oil as well tonite becuase it seems kind of red. Whoever put that in, I dont know what they put in there. Can that be ATF??? Why would someone do that? As I said, I bought teh car recently and still trying to resolve teh issues......

Ali

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AliRaza are you looking at the oil on the brownish plastic tip of the dipstick? The first time I checked the oil in a Northstar I thought the same thing. The oil was fresh enough that looking at the oil on the tip off the dipstick I too thought it was distinctly red!

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Alright guys,

I think I am almost there now.

Last night I opened up teh tensioner assembly and cleaned up and lubricated all parts and pieces. I took teh pulley bearing out and rotate that. The bearing was not moving freely and making all kinds of crunching noice. Since it was like 2:00 in teh morning so I didnt have any other choice but to put back in. (Becuase I wanted to see how it is going to work). We placed the pulley back (A lots of WD40 and lubricating spray) and put the tentioner back. I forgot to check the belt itself (And will do it today).

Afterwards I changed the oil in the car with new air filter too. Also filled the cooling system with right concentration of coolant after replacing the thermostat. This time I checked the thermostat in warm pot of water before plugging it in. (It was working fine). Also enabled coolant temperature reading on DIC.

After completing all that we went on a test drive at about 4:30 in the morning. We were driving it very carefully and at a speed of 30 to 35mph, the temperature of coolant was almost 193 to 199 with outside temperature of 54 F.

We ran it to 50 mph and teh temperature increased to 222 but then came back to 212 and was in the range between 207 to 212.

Now it was the time to get it on the highway. At a cruising speed of 60mph,the coolant temperature was not exceeding 212 to 215.

This trip was about 25 to 30 miles.

On our way back we stopped at a gas station and let the car be on idle and the temperature was 199.

On our way back, we rev the car and rev it up and down a little bit. Meaning not being careful driving but pushing teh pedal heavy and then leaving it creating variable speed. At one point the temperature started moving up again and went all teh way up to 300. We stopped the car, let it run on idle and after a while, it started to drop back to normal and came back to low 200 range.

Here is my conclusion. I think the culprit is the tentioner pulley and the water pump belt. When teh speed is varried, the pulley bearing provide resistance and may cause water pump to either stop pumping or slowing down becuase of slippage of the belt or belt being too warm. I am thinking about changing the water pump tentioner pulley and the belt.

Any recommendation ???? Are my assumptions correct? Is there anything else to check???

Thanks again for all your help. I learned a lot from this forum and thank God I didnt fall in to the trap of my mechanic who was adamant about changing the engine because for him its the head gasket.....

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I think you're on to something. I'd replace the tensioner assembly or if possible, install new bearings in it. I'd also replace the water pump belt as it probably has excessive wear if it's been slipping. Then report back.

Jeff

Jeff

98 Concours

90 Seville

04 Corvette

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I'm always for getting original replacements. So many have problems with aftermarket parts such as starters and alternators. The aftermarket tensioner would probably be ok, but for me, I'd get the real one.

Jeff

Jeff

98 Concours

90 Seville

04 Corvette

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I think you have found the culprit. Remember WD40 will run of of the pivot and be spun off of the bearing if that is where you put it. The bearing must be packed with hi-temp grease and the pivot must be greased (not necassarily hi-temp). If you cannot do that I am convinced a new tensioner will cure your problem.

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Larry,

With all the pain and agony I have gone through, especially when the mechanic used to tell me "Your engine is gone. I would get rid of this car if I were you", I will go for a new one from the dealer and get that thing out of my way completely.

But during all of this chaos, I am so glad to find a forum like this with people like you and everyone else spcially Bill and Jeff and all others who have been giving me advise to move forward and help me not loosing my hope and my mind over this.

I am out on a trip Monday and Tuesday but will work on it Wednesday. Will back with you guys then

Until then so long and thanks for all your help

Ali

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OK guys,

I am so dejected now.

This is what happened. I got the tentioner and belt from the dealer and replaced them today.

Took the car out and drove around the neighborhood for good 20 minutes. I was very careful driving as speeding up gradually and treating it very carefully. The maximum temperature it reached was 222 at one point otherwise it was between 200 to 210.

After a smooth drive, I went on a major road and thought that now it is ready for the real test. Rev up a little and took it to more than 2500 rpm. After a minute or so, the temperature started climbing up and went all the way to 303. I parked my car on teh side and sit there on idle for three four minutes, let teh temperature came down to 210 again and then drove back home. Temperature was still 212 and 215.

So now I am completely lost and need some serious help. What should I do? What can be the reason? Spent about $100 today for teh pump pulley and the belt. Should I change teh pump? Why its heating up on high rpm and the temperature goes up like crazy in less than a minute.... IS waterpump stops working for some reason on high rpm? The rapid temperature rise on higher rpm, is it becuae of water not circulating or something else. Does throttle body has to do anything with it? Does the heater circuit iunder throttle body has something to do with it?

HELP ME PLEASE

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