2000 DeVille, runs hot. Radiator shop says head gasket leaking.

[Retread]

Go to www.timesert.com there are videos there that are illustrative.

All 20 head bolt holes in the block must be drilled out and threaded with a tap, and a titanium threaded insert is screwed in and locked into place.

Sometimes, when the head gasket repair is delayed when the hole is drilled out the material has been degraded by electrolysis and its a powder. At that point a big sert can be tried and the block drilled out for a big sert, hopefully during THAT drilling process aluminum curls instead of powder is seen.

If you have this done, it will be necessary to find someone that is experienced with this job. Whatever you do, do not let anyone do the job without timeserting the block, it won't last a year.

This is the kind of information that I needed. Many Thanks .... Now I think I can query the shop I go to to find out whether or not they will do the job correctly.

[Logan]

If the head bolts have pulled....you have 2 options.

Time-Sert the block. The 2000-2003 engine uses kit J-42385-2000. The tool kit can be rented.

Replace the engine. I almost did that on my 2001. At the time....2003 engines could be had for under $1000. They are unique and a one year part number. Yards could not sell the engines as a exact replacement for a 2000-2002 engine. I think the only difference was a anti-slap coating on the pistons.

[BodybyFisher]

Logan based on what you said, 2000 through 2003 are not interchangeable?

Or they are the same with the exception of the piston coating?

I have been trying to compile a list of engine details and interchangeablility. Thx

[BodybyFisher]

Retread, as they say, forewarned is fore-armed. If we can provide you with enough education and info to ask the right questions get the job done right we have done our job. It always helps to be knowledgeable when talking to mechanics, it will allow you to spot frauds and the good ones.

And let me say that there will be some things that you will want to have done while the engine is out, like some seals, check for leaks, crossover seals, check the heater pipes, check engine mounts, etc that will add some longevity and improve the driveability. They will probably drop the carriage and keep the engine in place to do the timesert job, so things like the torque converter seal and rear crank seal may not be able to be replaced without additional cost. But one question you want to ask is, will they pull the engine out of the carriage and put it on a stand or leave it attached to the tranny in the carriage. Either way, they need to drop the carriage, taking the motor out through the top is not the best way. If you find out how they plan to do the job, we can recommend things to inspect and restore.

I am sincere when I say I will walk you through the Balkamp test procedure, send me a PM if you would like.

[Retread]

Retread, as they say, forewarned is fore-armed. If we can provide you with enough education and info to ask the right questions get the job done right we have done our job. It always helps to be knowledgeable when talking to mechanics, it will allow you to spot frauds and the good ones.

And let me say that there will be some things that you will want to have done while the engine is out, like some seals, check for leaks, crossover seals, check the heater pipes, check engine mounts, etc that will add some longevity and improve the driveability. They will probably drop the carriage and keep the engine in place to do the timesert job, so things like the torque converter seal and rear crank seal may not be able to be replaced without additional cost. But one question you want to ask is, will they pull the engine out of the carriage and put it on a stand or leave it attached to the tranny in the carriage. Either way, they need to drop the carriage, taking the motor out through the top is not the best way. If you find out how they plan to do the job, we can recommend things to inspect and restore.

I am sincere when I say I will walk you through the Balkamp test procedure, send me a PM if you would like.

Did the Balkamp test. Fluid turned color of urine. Just to check if I was doing it correctly, did my truck. Fluid stayed blue. Next step: find a good shop with reasonable pricing in KC area.

[BodybyFisher]

That stuff works like magic, boom, its yellow! Now you have a definate answer. Let us know if we can help, Mike

[OldCadTech]

Ouch!!

My feelings are hurt

Every NorthStar I've ever done I pulled the engine out the top - main reason - I don't like pulling trannies and I don't like dropping cradles EXCEPT Astro vans - saves hours on those morphs.

i'd pull it out the top do the HGs, timeserts, rear main, the case halves, and main bearings ( seen a bunch of em with the babbit gone ) - On the eng stand, BUT I'm special If you did all that - 16 more years of driving pleasure.....

John

[BodybyFisher]

Ouch!!

My feelings are hurt

Every NorthStar I've ever done I pulled the engine out the top - main reason - I don't like pulling trannies and I don't like dropping cradles EXCEPT Astro vans - saves hours on those morphs.

i'd pull it out the top do the HGs, timeserts, rear main, the case halves, and main bearings ( seen a bunch of em with the babbit gone ) - On the eng stand, BUT I'm special If you did all that - 16 more years of driving pleasure.....

John

Why are your feelings hurt?

I have never taken it out the top, KHE has if I recall and he commented that its more difficult because there are a couple of bolts that are hard to get at, he has done it both ways.

[Cadillac Jim]

The 2002 FSM gives the process to take the engine out the top without the transmission. I recall seeing a 1990's Cadillac in a dealer service bay that was reared back like a dirt bike, leaving the engine and cradle on the ground, but they may have been doing transmission work too.

I expect that the 2002 FSM for Deville is almost identical to the 2000 FSM for this procedure but the best reference is someone who has done an engine R&R on a 2000 Deville with a 2000 FSM at hand.

The FSM usually gives the process that uses the lowest hours in a flat-rate manual. That doesn't necessarily mean that it's the best way for a particular individual to do it with a particular car in a particular shop.

[KHE]

Pulling the engine from the top is more difficult since there a couple of bolts that are at awkward angles (the brace on the rear head, passenger side is the worst one) and the clearances are tight. An engine leveler is a must-have.

I pulled the engine on my STS from the top because my garage was not large enough to accommodate the engine hoist in front of the vehicle to lift up the front of the body. If I had a hoist or a large building to work in, I would have dropped it out the bottom.

It sounds like the original poster plans to have his car done by a shop which will most likely drop it out the bottom.

[BodybyFisher]

That is what I remember Kevin (KHE), that because you did it both ways and found dropping easier than pulling it from the top.

In November I dropped the carriage out the bottom using 4 threaded rods (thanks Logan) on to a dolly I made and slid the powertrain out from under the body. I learned enough to do it faster the next time. Of course having a lift, transmission support and hydraulic powertrain hoist table make the job very easy.

The manual gives the procedure for both methods. The first time I did the crossover seals it was terrible, now the job is not too bad familiarity in knowing what to expect helps a lot.

Once you do a job a couple of times you know the pitfalls and can develop a procedure. John no doubt became proficient at pulling the engine out of the top and that is fantastic. In my mind pulling the engine from the top presents a whole new set of challenges to adapt to.

Its purely preference, work conditions, tools, space etc as KHE noted that he didnt have room in front of the car.

With regard to the original poster, what I was going to say was, assuming he drops the carriage depending upon whether he repairs the head gasket with the engine attached to the tranny and in the carriage verses detaching the engine from the tranny and put on a stand will determine what other parts can be restored.

[OldCadTech]

"But one question you want to ask is, will they pull the engine out of the carriage and put it on a stand or leave it attached to the tranny in the carriage. Either way, they need to drop the carriage, taking the motor out through the top is not the best way."

I was just kidding, it is a matter of preference! After doing so many out the top you get a routine and know what works to get at the hard ones. I have a cable style engine sling that keeps it level, or I can adjust it for tilt as needed..

Just giving BBF a hard time

[OldCadTech]

KHE, I pull them with the cherry picker from the right side

[OldCadTech]

Jim,

"The FSM usually gives the process that uses the lowest hours in a flat-rate manual."

Not necessarily, If you've ever seen the way they do time studies it's a joke. More often than not they use the previous year model instructions until someone complains or does a real life time study which is a "process" in itself.

Factory flat rate is the biggest cause of the "hack jobs" that are turned out by dealership "mechanics" ( no- I don't refer to them "the hacks" as techs ).....

[BodybyFisher]

Just giving BBF a hard time

:-)

[Retread]

That stuff works like magic, boom, its yellow! Now you have a definate answer. Let us know if we can help, Mike

Now that I know that I have a HG leak, it makes sense that the coolant reservoir would hold a higher than normal pressure, considering the difference between cylinder head pressure and coolant system pressure. I open the cap every time we drive the car after it cools down to relieve the excess pressure. I am even thinking of leaving the cap loose just to be able to use the car until repairs can be arranged.

Still looking for a quality shop in KC area with reasonable rates.

[OldCadTech]

Retread,

I would call the Cad dealerships and get some price quotes. Find one where the techs specialize in different types of repair. You're looking for "Heavy Line" techs.

Check Sallas auto repair prices - KC and Overland park - they work on a lot of luxury vehicles.

Let us know what they say, before you commit......

[OldCadTech]

BTW, leaving the cap loose in not a good idea, if it is working properly it will "vent" over 16 psi. leaving it off allows the coolant to boil at a lower temp than with it on.

[Retread]

Retread,

I would call the Cad dealerships and get some price quotes. Find one where the techs specialize in different types of repair. You're looking for "Heavy Line" techs.

Check Sallas auto repair prices - KC and Overland park - they work on a lot of luxury vehicles.

Let us know what they say, before you commit......

I went to Sallas with engine misfire problem about a year ago. He charged me $98 for diagnosis and did not come close to the problem. Then, when he told me that running the oil level down to 2 qts low (which is where the PCM alert "check oil level" comes on) would damage the engine, I knew he didn't know squat. He said that left only 3 qts in the crankcase. I reminded him that the N* held 7 qts, not 5, he sheepishly said "Oh, that's right... I forgot." I left $98 poorer and no accurate diagnosis of my problem. I went 2 blocks down the street to "New Concepts" and they replaced both coil packs. Problem fixed but paid over $1600. They charged a premium price for the packs, to which I replied that I could obtain them for half their charge and asked for some discount, refused emphatically. When I picked up the car, they left out a coil pack bolt that was obvious and in plain sight. Sent a mech out to quickly put in a bolt similar in size, but obviously not the one that was originally in the car. Won't go back there again, either.

[Retread]

BTW, leaving the cap loose in not a good idea, if it is working properly it will "vent" over 16 psi. leaving it off allows the coolant to boil at a lower temp than with it on.

Yeah... on further thought, gave up this idea. I do remove the cap each time the car is driven and cooled down to relieve the excess pressure and it seems to run fine. No more overheating. In the meantime, I contacted Joe Blau at Midwest Cadillac in Palatine, IL. If I don't find anyone closer, will tow my Caddy to NW Chicago and get it fixed by someone who knows N* engines. It's a 545 mile drive, but may be my only choice to get it done correctly. Local shops want over $5000 and do not drop the engine, but install the inserts with the car on the floor. Joe's price is half that and drops the engine and repairs any leaks and bad solenoids hard to access without dropping the cradle.

[BodybyFisher]

We have a member here that repairs NSs that is located in Texas, is Texas too far for you to go?

[OldCadTech]

Hmmm, I'm 0 for 2 - sorry

[Retread]

We have a member here that repairs NSs that is located in Texas, is Texas too far for you to go?

I'd love to go to TX. My son lives in Waco, and my wife and I have friends in FTWorth. Just drove down there for a wedding last year. However, the guy in Chicago has a really good reputation repairing N* engines and specializes in them. He will put in either Norm serts or studs, whichever I choose and has done over 500 so far. Who is this TX fellow and what are his credentials?

[BodybyFisher]

Hmmm, I'm 0 for 2 - sorry

Having been a member of this forum including its prior iteration for approximately 15 years I have come to understand the concept of brainstorming. We each bring to the table our unique history, knowledge and experience and that diversity is very powerful.

I thought your recommendation of calling specific dealers was a terrific recommendation and you offered to help the op navigate the process a very valuable and helpful service.

What caught my attention was the distance that he planned to drive the engine that will overheat on a long trip. I initially suggested driving to Texas, without thinking. I do not think that a NS that is confirmed with a bad head gasket would be trouble free during a long trip to chicago, texas or kansas and I would not recommend such a long trip due to the risk of overheating and landing you on the side of the road.

If a local shop can not be found it creates a problem.

The engine can be shipped to the member who frequents this forum as an option and of course flat bedding the vehicle is an option but these options add shipping and R&R costs.

What makes this forum so powerful are the diverse ideas we present as a group

[KHE]

barczy01 repairs Northstars - he's in Indianapolis, IN. He is a member on this site. He's probably closer to you than Chicago.