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2000 DeVille, runs hot. Radiator shop says head gasket leaking.


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Last November, I had a radiator shop repair my wife's DeVille leaking coolant system. Many deteriorating hoses, along with the thermostat, and water pump replaced. Car 115,000 miles. Some continued minor nuisance leaks stopped after inserting ACDelco cooling system tablets.

Fast forward to this week: After fueling her car on the way home, my wife experienced the first "HOT- engine idle" light. She pulled over and stopped with the temp guage red and called me. I came to her aid and drove the car home and it did the same to me every few miles. Each time I stopped and let it cool down before proceeding. The next day the same occurred taking it to the Radiator shop.

The shop could not duplicate the problem during a test drive, but on testing the coolant system for hydrocarbons, found that they were excessive (over 750ppm). That, together with the extreme pressure in the reservoir, made the diagnosis of a leaking head gasket. I drove the car home today without any problems.

I am thinking that the head gasket is in the first stage of a leak. Perhaps the coolant system tablets put in the system a couple of months ago provided a temporary plug in the head gasket. Perhaps the ACDelco tablets clogged the purge line and gave a temporary spike in high temp, imitating a leaking head gasket symptom. Otherwise I am at a loss as to why it did not overheat today. My issue is that I need a reliable car for my wife. Not only is it expensive to replace the aluminum head gasket, but finding someone to do it correctly is tenuous.

Just as I decided to ask in this forum for advice, I noted an ad for a "Cadillac NorthStar Dura-Seal Head Gasket Kit". I don't know if the forum endorses this product or not, but can I have a witness?

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@OldCadTech: Yes. When I shut off the engine and popped the hood, they were running.

BTW- No evidence of smoke from exhaust, engine runs well, no visible leaks, no loss of coolant from reservoir, except that when attempting to remove the cap when hot (I use leather gloves). The big note here is that the reservoir has a lot of pressure, even if the car sits overnight before I remove the cap.

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There is no such thing as a sealant that will solve head leakage with aluminum engines. They aren't much good with iron engines, either. If you are looking for a reliable daily driver for your wife, no bottle will solve head leakage and provide reliability.

The problem of coolant corrosion damage such as Northstar pulled head bolts (which result in head gasket leakage) happens when you let the coolant go far too long, and I've never heard of a dealer recommending a coolant change. I've changed the intake manifold gaskets twice in my wife's Pontiac with then-corporate 3.4 liter V6. One dealer did that job and put the old coolant back in the car.

I would test the coolant again yourself. You can get a test kit at some auto parts stores; people here will pipe up and tell you where they get their favorite kit for testing coolant for combustion by-products.

You can do these tests yourself: In the morning, with a cold engine, does the surge tank smell of exhaust? Start the car and run it for about 30 seconds, then shut it down and see if the exhaust smells of coolant. If either of these smell tests is positive, exhaust in the coolant or coolant in the exhaust, then you can plan on dealing with head gaskets.

There are four common alternatives for dealing with this. In order of least expensive first, they are: a used engine from a recycling yard, a rebuilt engine, replacing the head gaskets in your existing engine, and a re-manufactured engine.

Finding someone that can do this job is not as hard as you might think. At this late date, all-aluminum engines with torque-and-twist head bolts are the rule, and most people with a lot of internal engine experience can do the job. Look for experience in this type of work with an ASE-certified mechanic. Look for this symbol on certificates on the wall:

showGif_ASE.png

CTS-V_LateralGs_6-2018_tiny.jpg
-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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Why was the water pump replaced? Was it leaking coolant through the weep hole?

Trusted shop owner said it needed to be replaced. It's been 5 months, so I don't remember his description, but there was a leak (several, actually) so I assume it was one of them. I don't know what you are getting at, but I kept track of the coolant level and it never got too low before I topped it off. The last leaks to be found were from gaskets on a part too expensive to access, so he put in the ACDelco tablets and told me why. It took a couple of weeks, but the leaks eventually stopped. The car drove well for the next 3 months before the current issue.

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I'm thinking it has something to do with the radiator cap. Have you replaced it? When you say it holds pressure overnight is it a lot of pressure or just a little "poof"?

2000 had a screw-on cap if I'm not mistaken so it will take an adapter to test it. remove it in the morning when the engine is cold and check the level, top it off ( couple of inches from the top ) if it is low, start the car and watch the coolant in the reservoir does it appear to be "flowing"? Put the palm of your hand over the reservoir and hold it there for a few minutes, is there pressure building rapidly?

Did you happen to check the purge line (small hose going to reservoir) for temperature? When engine is warm is upper and lower hoses approx the same temp? Check the heater core hoses they should be close to the same temp as well

i know it sounds a little archaic but easy tests to do with no tools or no test equipment

THERE IS ALWAYS ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB RIGHT - THERE IS NEVER ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB AGAIN !!!

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Ooops. forgot to say let it run for a while 10 - 15 mins with the a/c off so it has a chance to cycle the fans and watch the fans with the a/c on after that.

THERE IS ALWAYS ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB RIGHT - THERE IS NEVER ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB AGAIN !!!

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There is no such thing as a sealant that will solve head leakage with aluminum engines. They aren't much good with iron engines, either. If you are looking for a reliable daily driver for your wife, no bottle will solve head leakage and provide reliability.

The problem of coolant corrosion damage such as Northstar pulled head bolts (which result in head gasket leakage) happens when you let the coolant go far too long, and I've never heard of a dealer recommending a coolant change. I've changed the intake manifold gaskets twice in my wife's Pontiac with then-corporate 3.4 liter V6. One dealer did that job and put the old coolant back in the car.

I would test the coolant again yourself. You can get a test kit at some auto parts stores; people here will pipe up and tell you where they get their favorite kit for testing coolant for combustion by-products.

You can do these tests yourself: In the morning, with a cold engine, does the surge tank smell of exhaust? Start the car and run it for about 30 seconds, then shut it down and see if the exhaust smells of coolant. If either of these smell tests is positive, exhaust in the coolant or coolant in the exhaust, then you can plan on dealing with head gaskets.

There are four common alternatives for dealing with this. In order of least expensive first, they are: a used engine from a recycling yard, a rebuilt engine, replacing the head gaskets in your existing engine, and a re-manufactured engine.

Finding someone that can do this job is not as hard as you might think. At this late date, all-aluminum engines with torque-and-twist head bolts are the rule, and most people with a lot of internal engine experience can do the job. Look for experience in this type of work with an ASE-certified mechanic. Look for this symbol on certificates on the wall:

showGif_ASE.png

Maybe you missed it in my o.p., but the SnapOn sniffer reported over 750ppm hydrocarbons during cooling system diagnosis. Also observed was a quite higher than normal pressure in the reservoir when attempting to remove the reservoir cap after an overnight cooling off. I am convinced he is correct to point to head gasket failure. I asked about the purge line and he said it was checked and was clear, no obstruction.

Thank you for your input, but I note that this same reply appears on other posts where members are asking about its use. You are committed to this opinion, but others have been more optimistic about alternative methods.

Would someone please reply with their experience using Dura-Seal? This low cost possible fix for my situation is tantalizing because I don't have the money to spend on a 16 year old car that may continue to drain my bank account even if I replaced the head gasket. I look at the cost of Dura-Seal at $180 vs $2000 for a head gasket replacement and wonder if the Dura-Seal will completely ruin the engine, resulting in a more expensive repair. The head gasket has not caused a major catastrophe yet. It may be about to blow... maybe the liquid seal will stop that from happening. I certainly don't expect it to be a cure-all, but to extend the engine life another 5 years is acceptable.

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Wow! must be getting close to my bedtime, I wasn't very clear on that...

Leave the cap off for the whole test period, check the upper and lower radiator hoses they should be about the same temp.

You'll have to forgive me its been a while since I was around a 2000 Deville but If your display will let you monitor engine temp, bring that up on the display. Your t-stat should open around 185 - 195 then the fans should maintain temp at idle, temp should rise to around around 230 with the fans off and with a/c off, with the a/c on the fans should run more so it may maintain about 210 if its a warm day, otherwise it will probably be around 200. If you can't monitor engine temp watch the needle it should stay around the middle.

i hope that made more sense :)

THERE IS ALWAYS ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB RIGHT - THERE IS NEVER ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB AGAIN !!!

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I'm thinking it has something to do with the radiator cap. Have you replaced it? When you say it holds pressure overnight is it a lot of pressure or just a little "poof"?

2000 had a screw-on cap if I'm not mistaken so it will take an adapter to test it. remove it in the morning when the engine is cold and check the level, top it off ( couple of inches from the top ) if it is low, start the car and watch the coolant in the reservoir does it appear to be "flowing"? Put the palm of your hand over the reservoir and hold it there for a few minutes, is there pressure building rapidly?

Did you happen to check the purge line (small hose going to reservoir) for temperature? When engine is warm is upper and lower hoses approx the same temp? Check the heater core hoses they should be close to the same temp as well

i know it sounds a little archaic but easy tests to do with no tools or no test equipment

During the November shop visit, all hoses, clamps, coolant, thermostat, water pump, and reservoir with cap were replaced with new. It was only recently that the cap removal produced a very heavy pressure release. I had no means to measure it, but the radiator shop owner says he thought it was unusually strong, too. This would be expected if exhaust gases were leaking into the coolant system. High hydrocarbon report is consistent with the same dx. The first glance dx was stuck thermostat, but that was ruled out. Now we are thinking the exhaust gases caused a bubble in the coolant system that impeded the flow which resulted in the high temp spikes. ---- no matter the physics of the high temps, it all points to a leaking head gasket as the source of the problem. My thinking now is it worth the gamble that a sealant could forestall a complete rupture of the head gasket? And what are the chances that the sealant may cause other damage?

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So you have an understanding of the testers for exhaust in the coolant, they do give a lot of false positives. Your reading was quoted at 750ppm do you realize how minute that is? Was the test performed correctly? Neither you nor any of us know.

There are no fixes in a can, there is no longevity in a can either, no matter what the hype, no matter what they tell you in their ads.

Good diagnostics will beat a can any day! You may very well have a head gasket problem. If you have taken care of your cooling system as well as you stated, you may NOT have a head gasket problem. I have a 1999 Deville that was diagnosed by 2 other mechanics as having bad head gaskets, they both did the exhaust gas test, IT was a loose hose clamp, I tightened the clamp and have over 700 miles of NO problems.

THERE IS ALWAYS ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB RIGHT - THERE IS NEVER ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB AGAIN !!!

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Sorry I was typing during your response.

Yes, there are a multitude of problems that the fixes in a can cause. They plug radiators, cause hot spots by collecting in areas that don't flow well anyway, and blocking passages that should remain open. Ive seen BarsLeak pellets in a can plug 3/4 of an 87 Cad radiator. Another topic is just because something is new doesn't mean it is working properly, it just means its cleaner than the old part it replaced.

THERE IS ALWAYS ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB RIGHT - THERE IS NEVER ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB AGAIN !!!

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I did read your original post and, in hopes that the 750 ppm hydrocarbon reading was incorrect, recommended that you do your own test to verify it before you went forward. The excess of caution here is because, as you say, we are talking an expensive repair with a head gasket job.

There are a lot of things that have similar or identical symptoms to occasional head leakage. Various people here are mentioning them.

To answer your original question, no, sodium silicate "head gasket seals" and such won't fix a head leak and give your wife a reliable daily driver. In addition, such sealants can cause other problems, like obstructing the bypass, deposits in the heads, etc. and this stuff is difficult to get out of the system. Northstar head leakage nearly always is associated with one or two pulled head bolts, and the head will move a tiny bit occasionally so you can never seal the head gasket without fixing the head bolt threads.

I had this problem ten years ago and researched it here and elsewhere before I went forward. There are a number of reports of use of "head gasket repair" sealants here and the reports are that they do seem to work for a few days to a few weeks, depending on the use of the car, and it's not absolutely clear that they would not have gone the same time without overheating without the "head sealant."

Radiator sealants are designed to seal small leaks in radiators, hose clamps, and exterior porosity leaks in aluminum blocks and such. This is pressure of typically 15 psi at temperatures below 250 F. Cylinder pressures typically are on the order of 200+ psi before ignition, and 750+ psi peak pressure at light engine loads. Reference:

http://performancetrends.com/Definitions/Cylinder-Pressure.htm

Temperatures during combustion are quite high. Because of the high pressures and temperatures, ordinary radiator sealants have little effect on head leakage.

CTS-V_LateralGs_6-2018_tiny.jpg
-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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No sealant will work it will only delay the inevitable, repair the engine. The head bolts pull out of the block and the head moves away from the block. The breach will get worse and worse. The faster you get it fixed the better for the block aluminum. Do not listen to an advertising or youtube hype, it will not work due to the way the head gasket fails. If you love the car, and fix it correct, it will be good for a long time.

If you have hydrocarbons in the coolant, its a fail. The block must be timeserted there is no short cut to doing this job other than finding a known good engine. I am not 100%, sure but you should be able to use a 2000 thru 2003 engine, be aware that there are vin 9 and vin y engines you must use the correct vin engine.

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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So you have an understanding of the testers for exhaust in the coolant, they do give a lot of false positives. Your reading was quoted at 750ppm do you realize how minute that is? Was the test performed correctly? Neither you nor any of us know.

There are no fixes in a can, there is no longevity in a can either, no matter what the hype, no matter what they tell you in their ads.

Good diagnostics will beat a can any day! You may very well have a head gasket problem. If you have taken care of your cooling system as well as you stated, you may NOT have a head gasket problem. I have a 1999 Deville that was diagnosed by 2 other mechanics as having bad head gaskets, they both did the exhaust gas test, IT was a loose hose clamp, I tightened the clamp and have over 700 miles of NO problems.

Now this post is really getting to the point. Thank you. The SnapOn tool used to measure the hydrocarbons was done twice. The first reading was 366ppm. Second reading done 15 minutes later reported 750ppm and rising. Both the shop and I were surprised at the pressure in the reservoir especially after sitting overnight. I am convinced the only explanation would be exhaust gases forcing their way past a breach in the head gasket into the coolant system.

All that said, are you saying that 750ppm is not enough to warrant the conclusion?

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Lets stop circle jerking here with what ifs and just buy the Balkamp head gasket tester from NAPA. If the solution changes colors its a bad head gasket. As it is the shop said bad head gasket, you have all the symptoms of bad head gasket, the pressure in the tank. Put your nose in the tank, if you smell exhaust, bad head gasket.

http://www.napaonline.com/p/BK_7001006

Iv used it 25 times over the last 10 years and it has been right every time.

You can get bad or variable results IF coolant is added to the system diluting the coolant in the tank. A definitive test must be done, there is NO wondering if you 1) actually smell exhaust in the tank or 2) the solution changes colors. There will be no is 750 bad or not bad.... my educated guess is, 750 would be plenty to turn the solution on the napa tester from yellow to blue and you probably will smell it, there should be minimal or NO hydrocarbons.

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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I did read your original post and, in hopes that the 750 ppm hydrocarbon reading was incorrect, recommended that you do your own test to verify it before you went forward. The excess of caution here is because, as you say, we are talking an expensive repair with a head gasket job.

There are a lot of things that have similar or identical symptoms to occasional head leakage. Various people here are mentioning them.

To answer your original question, no, sodium silicate "head gasket seals" and such won't fix a head leak and give your wife a reliable daily driver. In addition, such sealants can cause other problems, like obstructing the bypass, deposits in the heads, etc. and this stuff is difficult to get out of the system. Northstar head leakage nearly always is associated with one or two pulled head bolts, and the head will move a tiny bit occasionally so you can never seal the head gasket without fixing the head bolt threads.

I had this problem ten years ago and researched it here and elsewhere before I went forward. There are a number of reports of use of "head gasket repair" sealants here and the reports are that they do seem to work for a few days to a few weeks, depending on the use of the car, and it's not absolutely clear that they would not have gone the same time without overheating without the "head sealant."

Radiator sealants are designed to seal small leaks in radiators, hose clamps, and exterior porosity leaks in aluminum blocks and such. This is pressure of typically 15 psi at temperatures below 250 F. Cylinder pressures typically are on the order of 200+ psi before ignition, and 750+ psi peak pressure at light engine loads. Reference:

http://performancetrends.com/Definitions/Cylinder-Pressure.htm

Temperatures during combustion are quite high. Because of the high pressures and temperatures, ordinary radiator sealants have little effect on head leakage.

The point I have been trying to make is that Dura-Seal does not use sodium silicate (water glass), or so they say. Your point is well taken. I realize this would only be a temporary fix, and if by temporary means 4 or 5 years, then that would be good for me. The car is 16 years old and I am 73. I will worry about what happens 5 years from now if and when I survive to that point.

Radiator sealant has already been put in the coolant, several months ago, and seems to have worked to stop nuisance leaks. I recognize their use and limitations and am not expecting them to provide protection against HG leaks. It is the Dura-Seal HG repair product that I am questioning.

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No sealant will work it will only delay the inevitable, repair the engine. The head bolts pull out of the block and the head moves away from the block. The breach will get worse and worse. The faster you get it fixed the better for the block aluminum. Do not listen to an advertising or youtube hype, it will not work due to the way the head gasket fails. If you love the car, and fix it correct, it will be good for a long time.

If you have hydrocarbons in the coolant, its a fail. The block must be timeserted there is no short cut to doing this job other than finding a known good engine. I am not 100%, sure but you should be able to use a 2000 thru 2003 engine, be aware that there are vin 9 and vin y engines you must use the correct vin engine.

I am not familiar with the term "timeserted". Can you explain?

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Lets stop circle jerking here with what ifs and just buy the Balkamp head gasket tester from NAPA. If the solution changes colors its a bad head gasket. As it is the shop said bad head gasket, you have all the symptoms of bad head gasket, the pressure in the tank. Put your nose in the tank, if you smell exhaust, bad head gasket.

http://www.napaonline.com/p/BK_7001006

Iv used it 25 times over the last 10 years and it has been right every time.

You can get bad or variable esults IF coolant is added to the system diluting the coolant in the tank. A definitive test must be done, there is NO wondering if you 1) actually smell exhaust in the tank or 2) the solution changes colors. There will be no is 750 bad or not bad.... my educated guess is, 750 would be plenty to turn the solution on the napa tester from yellow to blue and you probably will smell it, there should be minimal of NO hydrocarbons.

Thanks for the link to the NAPA leak tester. I will do this. My sense of smell has diminished quite a bit in the last year or so. This can be a good thing at times :)

Edited by Retread
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We have never been big fans of sealants. I myself am not a fan because of the way it fails, the bolts are no longer able to hold the head down on this high revving high compression engine and the head moves. If this were a cast iron engine with a breach on the gasket itself I would say give it a shot. I do not see it working on a head where bolts have failed and combustion pushes the head off and upward due to a lack of clamping force. There is entirely too much movement due to comprised clamping force which would remain even though sealer were used.

I doubt very much it would last 4 to 5 years the longer you wait to do the repair the worse the aluminum block material will get because of the coolant acting as an electrolyt and speeding electrolysis damaging the block material and turning it to powder. We have seen it happen.

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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Lets stop circle jerking here with what ifs and just buy the Balkamp head gasket tester from NAPA. If the solution changes colors its a bad head gasket. As it is the shop said bad head gasket, you have all the symptoms of bad head gasket, the pressure in the tank. Put your nose in the tank, if you smell exhaust, bad head gasket.

http://www.napaonline.com/p/BK_7001006

Iv used it 25 times over the last 10 years and it has been right every time.

You can get bad or variable esults IF coolant is added to the system diluting the coolant in the tank. A definitive test must be done, there is NO wondering if you 1) actually smell exhaust in the tank or 2) the solution changes colors. There will be no is 750 bad or not bad.... my educated guess is, 750 would be plenty to turn the solution on the napa tester from yellow to blue and you probably will smell it, there should be minimal of NO hydrocarbons.

Thanks for the link to the NAPA leak tester. I will do this. My sense of smell has diminished quite a bit in the last year or so. This can be a good thing at times :)

I hear ya at 62 I have a lot of systems failing to operate at full efficiency myself. But all kidding aside the exhaust smell will be strong. When you buy the kit we can help you do the test. Ill forward you my cell number and walk you through it if you would like.

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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Go to www.timesert.com there are videos there that are illustrative.

All 20 head bolt holes in the block must be drilled out and threaded with a tap, and a titanium threaded insert is screwed in and locked into place.

Sometimes, when the head gasket repair is delayed when the hole is drilled out the material has been degraded by electrolysis and its a powder. At that point a big sert can be tried and the block drilled out for a big sert, hopefully during THAT drilling process aluminum curls instead of powder is seen.

If you have this done, it will be necessary to find someone that is experienced with this job. Whatever you do, do not let anyone do the job without timeserting the block, it won't last a year.

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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I did a web search on "Dura Seal head gasket repair" and turned up massive links. The most interesting:

http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Dura-Seal-PermaTech-ABX-International-/internet/Dura-Seal-PermaTech-ABX-International-These-guys-are-liars-and-scammers-They-make-fa-1161580

This Ripoff Report page has a post by a guy who claims that they own their own review web sites and such, and that Dura Seal does indeed use sodium silicate. I did a web search on "Dura Seal MSDS" to look at the ingredient list and had no luck. It turns out that Dura Seal is also used as a trademark for paint, polyurethane wood finish, roofing products, and a variety of other things. All of them publish their MSDS sheets on the web, but I didn't turn one up for the head gasket repair people.

Interesting YouTube video by guy who used it three times on his aging 2000 Pontiac Montana van with the LA1 3.4 liter V6 with 180,000 miles on it. It had previous head gasket work at 50,000 miles.

Review was that in each of three applications, it solved the problem for a few weeks. When he pulled it down and fixed the heads and cleaned out the cooling system, he had problems with a clogged heater core, which he attributed to Dura Seal.

Bottom line is that no one has claimed that Dura Seal head gasket repair has ever produced a reliable daily driver for anything like 5 years.

I would recommend that if you need to drive the car until you can deal with the problem, that you do NOT use Dura Seal or anything else, because they will complicate the repair by making the cooling system difficult to clean out before you reassemble the car.

CTS-V_LateralGs_6-2018_tiny.jpg
-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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I did a web search on "Dura Seal head gasket repair" and turned up massive links. The most interesting:

http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Dura-Seal-PermaTech-ABX-International-/internet/Dura-Seal-PermaTech-ABX-International-These-guys-are-liars-and-scammers-They-make-fa-1161580

This Ripoff Report page has a post by a guy who claims that they own their own review web sites and such, and that Dura Seal does indeed use sodium silicate. I did a web search on "Dura Seal MSDS" to look at the ingredient list and had no luck. It turns out that Dura Seal is also used as a trademark for paint, polyurethane wood finish, roofing products, and a variety of other things. All of them publish their MSDS sheets on the web, but I didn't turn one up for the head gasket repair people.

Interesting YouTube video by guy who used it three times on his aging 2000 Pontiac Montana van with the LA1 3.4 liter V6 with 180,000 miles on it. It had previous head gasket work at 50,000 miles.

Review was that in each of three applications, it solved the problem for a few weeks. When he pulled it down and fixed the heads and cleaned out the cooling system, he had problems with a clogged heater core, which he attributed to Dura Seal.

Bottom line is that no one has claimed that Dura Seal head gasket repair has ever produced a reliable daily driver for anything like 5 years.

I would recommend that if you need to drive the car until you can deal with the problem, that you do NOT use Dura Seal or anything else, because they will complicate the repair by making the cooling system difficult to clean out before you reassemble the car.

Now THAT's a post worth its salt. (no pun intended)

Thank you. This is the last nail in the coffin on this inquiry. I will not use the Dura-Seal product. Another gearhead on another forum just made a good argument similar to yours. I appreciate a good reply.

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