OldCadTech Posted April 14, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2016 Logan, I didn't trust the SM because the tree leads you to the module if it is a no start condition which I didn't have. The parts source was less expensive by $20 and is closer to me so I figured it would get here sooner, which is yet to be seen. Air Mike, THAT is the million dollar question, my consensus is age & heat - next I would say voltage spike / static electricity - it looks to me like heat was a problem for a while, doesn't appear to be a fast "blow". If I hear that awful little pop noise when I install it ..... Back to square 1 THERE IS ALWAYS ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB RIGHT - THERE IS NEVER ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB AGAIN !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted April 14, 2016 Report Share Posted April 14, 2016 Thanks Jim for the effort. I had not seen that chart before and was curious where it came from. I had not seen it in the FSM. Maybe GM SI. Its a great reference for the Passkey 2 system. It helped me figure out my friends key problem. Armed with that chart takes the mystery out of getting extra keys since its obvious neither ACE or our local locksmith is reliable. Thanks Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted April 14, 2016 Report Share Posted April 14, 2016 Something in the area leaked probably a capacitor. The solder joints in the upper left are covered with brown/yellow compared to the solder joints in the lower area which are all silver. I see markings that appear to read 8-1 GM but its not clear, I searched for other modules on bing images to see if I could get the part number. This module is not a common image at all I did not have much luck searching for board images or schematics. Anyone know what that part is, that popped? It overheated you can see the top lead burned. Rectifier? Based on this photo from a motherboard I have it may be a FET or Insulated-gate bipolar transistor which are used in power supplies. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulated-gate_bipolar_transistor. Is the center terminal soldered or not soldered, and is the back soldered to the board? Does this module sit in standby waiting for a Key Fob input? Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan Posted April 14, 2016 Report Share Posted April 14, 2016 In the failed pic (post 43)....looks like a coil inductor....but I can't think of any that would be able to leak something... Logan Diagnostic LLC www.airbagcrash.com www.logandieselusa.com www.ledfix.com www.ledfix.com/yukontaillightrepair.html www.ledfix.com/ledreplacements.html www.ledfix.com/j42385toolrental.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted April 14, 2016 Report Share Posted April 14, 2016 In the failed pic (post 43)....looks like a coil inductor....but I can't think of any that would be able to leak something...Logan, are you speaking about the component that has 101 on the top? I was thinking the failed part was to the right of that it looks like there is a hole in the square black/grey component. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldCadTech Posted April 14, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2016 THERE IS ALWAYS ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB RIGHT - THERE IS NEVER ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB AGAIN !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldCadTech Posted April 14, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2016 A little clearer pic... The other side of the board looked pretty good a little darker but not scorched THERE IS ALWAYS ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB RIGHT - THERE IS NEVER ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB AGAIN !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldCadTech Posted April 14, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2016 Is the square one (burnt) with 810 m on it a PNP transistor or have I got the name wrong? THERE IS ALWAYS ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB RIGHT - THERE IS NEVER ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB AGAIN !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted April 14, 2016 Report Share Posted April 14, 2016 I do believe its a transistor, probably power regulating. I looked up the 810 with transistor and found this http://m.electronic-spare-parts.com/descript/2/2sb_810.htm And yes if its an 810 its a PNP. It appears to have a hole in it is that correct? Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldCadTech Posted April 14, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2016 It looked like some kind of covering that "melted" away in a circle more than a hole THERE IS ALWAYS ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB RIGHT - THERE IS NEVER ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB AGAIN !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted April 14, 2016 Report Share Posted April 14, 2016 Does that part look like the part that failed or the one to the left with 101 on it as I see dark brown at its base? Is the area tacky with an oily gooey film? I am wondering if a capacitor failed leading to the transistors overheating. Most of the time when capacitors fail they short. See this article on how age, heat, ambient temps and over current impact transistors http://www.prognostics.umd.edu/calcepapers/08_Nishad_failurePrecursorsIGBT_9ISPS.pdf Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted April 14, 2016 Report Share Posted April 14, 2016 It looks like that transistor was damaged by heat. I found this: "When a semiconductor device fails as a result of some other component failure the semiconductor was destroyed by heat. When the silicon crystal is heated it eventually gets hot enough to melt. This results in a short between all leads of the device. As noted elsewhere in this text, the short can result in the current being so high that the wire leads or the crystal itself are burned away leaving an open circuit. Open is a secondary failure mode." On rare occasions the semiconductor crystal will get just hot enough for the doping impurities to defuse in the crystal which will change the characteristics of the device. The usual result is that the breakdown voltage of junctions is reduced. Meaning that a transistor will no longer operate at the applied collector voltage or a diode will conduct somewhat in the reverse direction. If this rare failure mode occurs it may be very hard to find because it is so rare and is not expected. If the early breakdown does not finish off the device it may turn into a real dog. Transistors and diodes which appear to be good in an out of circuit test may still not work in the circuit. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan Posted April 14, 2016 Report Share Posted April 14, 2016 Yeah....101. First pic looked like something had leaked. The new pic just looks like just the transistor got very hot. Logan Diagnostic LLC www.airbagcrash.com www.logandieselusa.com www.ledfix.com www.ledfix.com/yukontaillightrepair.html www.ledfix.com/ledreplacements.html www.ledfix.com/j42385toolrental.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldCadTech Posted April 14, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2016 I think, but I did not verify as to the texture of the area around the transistor, it looks as if there is some kind of failure of the round part marked 101 and leakage occurred. BUT it looks like a capacitor to me and I didn't think they contained any kind of leak-able fluid. Using a comment on aged components and resistance values from the link you provided this was what I was referring to about the cause. i knew this was a factor but the link explained it a LOT better than I could have thx. After reading the link "For example, failures could be caused by high humidity, leading to corrosion of electrical contacts." There seems to be a lot of corrosion on the electrical components in this vehicle. It started life in California and spent most of its' life in Wash. state. The connector contacts seem to have some corrosion on them but the rest of the components in the module did not. One other thing I notes was the apparent failure of the components on either side of the transistor. You can see the "dark" path destruction took.... THERE IS ALWAYS ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB RIGHT - THERE IS NEVER ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB AGAIN !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted April 14, 2016 Report Share Posted April 14, 2016 Capacitors leak electrolytic paste. The BOSE amps have had caps go bad and there were a bunch of Abit motherboards that had caps that bulged and leaked. I repaired a couple of Abit motherboards by replacing bulging and leaking caps. You certainly found the smoking gun, now I can't wait to see you do the learn procedure on this module. Did you see this on the VTD relearn? Here is a link to it, http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=VTD+module+relearn&view=detailv2&&id=58A883D6DF18A2037C5D9ED17100C40EDC6889C2&selectedIndex=0&ccid=hNGblF7x&simid=608051015110625051&thid=OIP.M84d19b945ef1122234c8be6f734b62dbo0&ajaxhist=0 Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldCadTech Posted April 14, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2016 Sorry, I'm a slow typer Mike. The new module will "learn" the password from the other modules on the first key cycle. Only when the VTD has learned the password/key signal does it need the 30 min relearn. SO, if I send you the RSS module and a 1k resistor could you do the repair? My big mitts don't do small soldering very well, although I did re-solder a RKE battery contact back in place and it worked! THERE IS ALWAYS ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB RIGHT - THERE IS NEVER ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB AGAIN !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldCadTech Posted April 14, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2016 Is your theory the 101 (capacitor) leaked causing the transistor failure. Or, did the egg come B4 the chicken??? THERE IS ALWAYS ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB RIGHT - THERE IS NEVER ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB AGAIN !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted April 14, 2016 Report Share Posted April 14, 2016 I dont think that 101 is a capacitor, it is a coil inductor as Logan noted. Something failed overheating the transistor, if you look there are 2 badly burned SMD or surface mounted devices right below the square transistor. I circled them here: Surfaced mounted capacitors can be very small see this one as an example from digikey: http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/murata-electronics-north-america/GRM155R61A104KA01D/490-1318-1-ND/587923 Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldCadTech Posted April 15, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 15, 2016 Okay, thanks, now I'm with you... THERE IS ALWAYS ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB RIGHT - THERE IS NEVER ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB AGAIN !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted April 15, 2016 Report Share Posted April 15, 2016 So if I send you the RSS module and a 1k resistor could you do the repair? My big mitts don't do small soldering very well, although I did re-solder a RKE battery contact back in place and it worked! I just saw this, definately if you need it soldered I can do it for you. Sorry I messed up the quote. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Jim Posted April 15, 2016 Report Share Posted April 15, 2016 If the component labeled 101 is an inductor, it is probably part of a buck converter that provides 5 Volts regulated (or another voltage) from the 12 Volts unregulated. That type of transistor case is used for transistors that dissipate a significant amount of power (at least a watt or two) and usually has the anode or heat-producing part of the transistor connected to the metal back, and the metal back is soldered to the board to help conduct heat away from the transistor. A coil and a power transistor will usually need a small electrolytic capacitor on the output side to keep the ripple down. There will be a high-frequency square wave that switches the transistor on and off. Usually its a PWM signal driven by a chip that determines the duty cycle to regulate the output voltage. From the photo, it looks like the transistor is the principal source of heat that cooked the board. The transistor looks cooked from heat at the anode area. If all this inference is right, and we are looking at a popped switch transistor in a buck converter, then it's an IGFET (MOSFET is what I call those) although it could be an insulated gate bipolar transistor, but those were rare in 1998. As for what blew it and what else is damaged, it would take an examination of the board and a bit of time. One problem may be that the board seems to be at least two layers and probably more, and damage under the surface must be worked around in a repair. In the 1997 FSM, the key resistor was interrogated by the IPC. There is a regulated voltage labeled "B+" that is probably 5 Volts, an unlabeled resistor that is probably about 1900 Ohms from the key resistances, then through the WHT/BLK wire to the key pellet, then back through the PPL/WHT wire to the ground reference back in the IPC. This is a 1998 Seville, and I will look in the 2002 FSM which will be more accurate if you like. -- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data -- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted April 15, 2016 Report Share Posted April 15, 2016 Thanks Jim Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldCadTech Posted April 15, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 15, 2016 Jim, That board is going in the round file. The module I may send to Mike is an RSS module that looks like the 1000 ohm resistor is open, I'm a little big fisted and depending on the coffee intake a little shaky for PCB soldering. I was leaning towards Mikes expertise... THERE IS ALWAYS ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB RIGHT - THERE IS NEVER ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB AGAIN !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted April 15, 2016 Report Share Posted April 15, 2016 John, from my computer board repair days I have a selection of fine point soldering irons specifically for pcbs. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldCadTech Posted April 15, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 15, 2016 Great !! I sent a PM ... THERE IS ALWAYS ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB RIGHT - THERE IS NEVER ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB AGAIN !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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