Seville, no gear engagment

[dsgmach395]

Hi guys,

i picked up an '02 Seville really cheap the other day from a guy at work because the trans went out on his way in.

Basically the trans is inop, will not engage drive or reverse.

After doing some minor diagnosing i found that there are no codes present, and tech 2 does see the gear command change from park/neutral to drive or reverse. The fluid level was low so i added 3 quarts and that brought it up to the right spot on the dipstick, although after doing a little more research i see they are dry sump... i have yet to look at the fluid while engine is not running.

I guessing the trans fluid pump went out or shaft broke, and when i check the fluid without the car running it will be at the same spot.

I've tried searching the forum and it doesn't look like anyone had posted about this issue yet. Any expert knowledge out there?

[Cadillac Jim]

Transmission top-off with drain plug or oil pan removed is 7 liters (7.4 quarts). Total except torque converter is 12.0 liters (12.6 quarts). Everything is 14.2 liters (15.0 quarts).

Here are the line pressure specs. Gear selector in park, transmission fluid temperature 190-210 F (88-99 C), RPM held at 1,400 RPM, current manually commanded with a Tech II:

Amps Pressure
0.1 206-223 psi (1420-1535 kpa)
0.2 197-223 psi (1360-1540 kpa)
0.3 192-209 psi (1325-1440 kpa)
0.4 183-200 psi (1260-1380 kpa)
0.5 171-184 psi (1180-1270 kpa)
0.6 149-162 psi (1030-1120 kpa)
0.7 125-136 psi (860-940 kpa)
0.8 112-106 psi (775-730 kpa)
0.9 73-80 psi (500-550 kpa)
1 49-51 psi (335-350 kpa)

If the fluid looks and smells OK, I would look for an electrical problem.

[OldCadTech]

Check Cadillac jim's suggestions, that is good information.

More often it is a broken input drum sungear assembly - 1st and reverse use the same input drum. Is the fluid dirty? Does it smell burnt? Put some fluid on your finger does it have a metallic look?

These are usually the "mechanical" indicators of drum failure. Pull the pan and check the magnet for metal. If the magnet is "full" time for o-haul -or- rebuilt trans.

john

[dsgmach395]

Thanks for the info guys. I have yet to get a chance to push it into the shop and pull the pan off or hook up a pressure gauge, but I did play with the tech 2 a little bit more and noticed that when I run through the PRINDL, the IMS readout corresponds with what gear I have selected, but the TFP readout never changes from "PARK/NEUTRAL". Do you guys agree that if the TFP was working properly it would correspond with the IMS?

Andy

[Cadillac Jim]

The TFP switch talks to the PCM. The PCM provides four lines, F, G, H and J, through resistors, and the switch grounds them according to this table (0 means grounded, 12 means a voltmeter reads battery voltage):

Gear F (BLK/WHT) G (YEL) H (GRY) J (WHT)
P 0 12 12 0
R 0 0 12 12
N 12 0 12 0
D 12 0 0 12
3 0 0 0 0
2 0 12 0 12
1 12 12 0 0

The letters are the cavities in connector C100. This switch is inside the transmission and its actuator is moved by the cable from the shifter. Note that P and N are different, so this is probably the switch that gives the dashboard display. Invalid codes for that switch causes all the dashboard transmission position lights to blink. It's vaguely possible that the wiring harness connector to the transmission C100 could be the problem. Also, check ground G106, which is "Lower left front corner of the engine on transmission case, below transmission harness connector." The C100 connector is "Transaxle harness to the engine harness, left of the engine compartment near the thermostat housing" but in the diagram it looks closer to the transmission dipstick cover than the thermostat.

There is another "sensor" switch that apparently is for operating the transmission pressure solenoids:

Gear N (PNK) N/A (?) P (RED)
P 12 0 12
R 0 0 12
N 12 0 12
D 12 0 0
3 12 0 0
2 12 12 12
1 0 12 12

The wire for the middle column isn't given in the schematic. This switch is grounded inside the transmission. Again, the letters are the cavities in connector C100. Note that this switch has the same outputs for P and N. The wire labeled as RED on cavity P of C100 is ORN on the transmission side of C100.

It appears that the first switch is operating properly, but the second switch is not.

There should be an OBD code or two for this if the cause is electrical.

Under Symptoms, "No Gear Selection" has four things to look at, all inside the transmission:

• Control Valve Bodies, Channel Plate, Case -- Blocked channels
• Detent Lever -- Nut loose or missing
• Manual Valve -- Stuck
• Spacer Plate/Gaskets -- Blocked holes

[OldCadTech]

Andy,

When you shift from Park to Reverse is it no or soft engagement or is there a noticeable clunk? If you put it in manual first and add 1000 rpm or so is there noises then? Shift first to reverse like you were stuck in snow if the trans sounds like it is grinding marbles it is the input drum. Quick easy test.

How many miles on the trans?

John

[dsgmach395]

I still haven't had a change to dive into it, but I'm looking forward to figuring this out.

Jim,

The tech 2 did show the outputs for all the channels listed above; the first sensor fell right in line with the parmeters you listed, while the second displayed HI HI through all gear selections.

John,

I don't feel any clunk or engagement at all. It really doesn't sound bad. As far as I know it the original Trans with about 150k on it.

Anyway, I'll start by inspecting the connector and then pull the pan too see if there is any carnage.

[Cadillac Jim]

If the pressure sensors stuck at HI, then you may have some stuck shifter solenoids.

[dsgmach395]

So today I went out to check the fluid level and the dip stick was bone dry. After turning it on and letting it run for 5 min, still no fluid.

[Cadillac Jim]

I would fix that before I diagnosed things.