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Good Evening All,

Well the wife called today to let me know the '04 Deville would not start after driving it four miles and shutting it off at the post office. After four attempts, she was able to get it fired up, and it ran fine. She forgot to tell me the car has been acting strange since Monday. Monday afternoon, with the car 'hot', it almost stalled as she pulled out onto the highway from a cross road. She had to back off the throttle, then give it gas gradually. She said it shook violently, as if going over rumble strips! It did the same thing Tuesday morning when it was 'cold'. Today with the almost no start condition, I immediately thought of cam sensors. Are bad cam sensors common in the '04 model year? I plan to pull codes when I get home tonight. She said the engine light never came on. Just looking for a method to determine where the problem might be. I really need the reliability of this car ight now with it being a daily driver for the grandkids back and forth twenty miles to school, four trips a day.

Thanks in advance for chiming in with your thoughts!

Ohio Jim

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Jim if your in central Ohio I have quite a few of spare parts you can use a test parts before purchasing new replacement parts. Also I have a lot of diagnostic equipment if neede . Also if you need a

Yes but 70% of the profits from foreign makes go back to a foreign country vs. the USA.

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Jim if your in central Ohio I have quite a few of spare parts you can use a test parts before purchasing new replacement parts. Also I have a lot of diagnostic equipment if neede . Also if you need any help I'll be glad to assist you in my free time.

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Bruce and JWoods,

Gentlemen, thanks for the quick replies! Bruce, I had not thought of the FPR. I had one go out on a '97 Deville, but it would only idle. As soon as I put it in gear and gave it any gas, it would stall. I should be able to get a gauge on the Schrader valve to verify. I remember the Schrader valve was quite accessible under the hood. Do you know if the set up is close to what was on an earlier model? I will be checking the codes tonight about 4am. Jwoods, thanks for the generous offer to help diagnose and repair. I will post back as soon as I get any idea what is going on. Talk to you soon!

Ohio Jim

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If you remove the vacuum line from the throttle body are to the fpr and smell it. If it has a gas smell the diaphragm is broken and a sure sign the fpr needs replaced.

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Check to see if there are any trouble codes stored in the onboard diagnostics. That may provide a hint to the problem.

Depending on the mileage, the fuel pump may be on its way out - It might be a good idea to check the fuel pressure upon acceleration to be sure it is within specification.

You might also want to do a tap test on the mass airflow sensor - hold a screwdriver by the shank and gently tap the MAF with the handle - if the engine stalls or runs rough - the MAF is bad.

Kevin
'93 Fleetwood Brougham
'05 Deville
'04 Deville
2013 Silverado Z71

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Gentlemen,

I have been away for a few days. Thank you for the replies and suggestions. I have run the codes and nothing but a few nuisance codes for the mirrors and seat. (This morning when my grandson started the car, apparently the idle was extremely high. No one knows how high, but my wife heard the car engine racing in the driveway, while she was in the house! No one thought to shut the car off, rather it was driven 40 miles to school and back. There was a terrible burnt plastic or burnt rubber smell coming from the engine. Not a rotten egg smell, as I suggested. The car was hard to stop, apparently because the idle was so high. When I got to the car, some hours later, I ran the codes first. Nothing.

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High idle could be caused by a vacuum leak providing unmetered air to the engine. Normally a vacuum leak large enough to cause a high idle will set lean codes in the pcm because computer can not provide enough fuel to compensate for all the extra air.

Other cause could be a idle control solenoid which should also set a code but not always. The idle solenoid is easy to remove only 2 screws holding it in. Could either be Phillips or torx I've seen both in my Deville's. If Phillips use the right size I'm thinking its a number 2 and push hard to provide pressure on the screw so not to strip the head. Be carefully to not drop the o-ring off the solenoid. Its a stepper type and when they go bad sometimes the cone shaped end is pushed all the way out and won't retract. Or its stuck in. Also carbon build up on the cone end could cause it not to seal good and let air pass by.

I'd check for vacuum leaks 1st. The boot from the throttle body to manifold tends to split at the bottom where you can't see it. And the 2 hard lines from the valve covers to the manifold. The front side is easy to see and inspect. The short rubber boots that connect the hard lines to the valve cover and manifold tend to split and tear. The rear one is easy to see on the valve cover then the other end goes under the manifold on the passenger side behind the power steering pump. Its almost impossible to see but easy to hesr if its split. You can use a can of throttle body cleaner and spray around the lines and throttle body boot and when the idle changes you have found your leak.

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oops! Wrong button!

Gentlemen,

I have been away for a few days. Thank you for the replies and suggestions. I ran the codes the other night and nothing but a few nuisance codes for the mirrors and seat. ( DDM B2507 History, IPM 0429 Current, IRC U1016 History, MSM B1850 History, PDM B1591 History, PDM B2507 History). I looked over the motor, checked for cracks in the intake plenum, verified the buttery fly was not sticking. I drove it soft and hard. Found nothing. Filled up the tank again, and the car has been better, but still falters on acceleration some times, about once a day.

This morning when my grandson started the car, apparently the idle was extremely high. No one knows how high, but my wife heard the car engine racing in the driveway, while she was in the house! No one thought to shut the car off, rather it was driven 40 miles to school and back. There was a terrible burnt plastic or burnt rubber smell coming from the engine. Not a rotten egg smell, as I suggested. The car was hard to stop, apparently because the idle was so high. When I got to the car, some hours later, I ran the codes first. Nothing. I drove it and put it through it's paces, but could not duplicate any problem.

I will try the MAF sensor check. Is that the sensor mounted to the intake plenum, or the one behind the screen at the throttle body? I will pull the vacuum line on the FPR and sniff. I could not find any vacuum leak yet.

Could it be a Throttle Position Sensor causing the car to race like that? Without any engine light or codes, I am not sure where to go next.

As always thanks for your input!

Ohio Jim

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JWoods,

I will look for the idle solenoid in the morning. I am not familiar with it yet, so I cant say if it is good or bad. Is it possible an upright canister about 3" high? I will also look into the specific vacuum leaks you suggest.

Thanks for the help, Ohio neighbor!

Ohio Jim

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The idle control solenoid is located on the throttle body. Facing the front of the car there are 2 components one towards the bottom and one at the top. The top one is the idle control. It'll have 2 screws and a black connector on it.

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Check the intake plenum boot/coupler - I will bet it is torn on the bottom side where you can't see it from a casual observation.

Kevin
'93 Fleetwood Brougham
'05 Deville
'04 Deville
2013 Silverado Z71

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JWoods, KHE,

Thanks for the great information. I had to do a quick turn around and come back to work. I drove the car this morning again and it was fine, but I am intent on finding out the problem. I will hunt down these items and report back to you. I may have five minutes on Sunday to get back into it.

Thanks again!

Ohio Jim

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Gentlemen,

Fate has struck once again. Wife just called. Deville was hit by a GMC 2500 truck going 50 mph while she was backing into the driveway tonight! Apparently her and the 4 grandchildren are alright. Possibly a glancing blow! :fighting0025: Said the 'tie rod thing looks bad'. Car is only worth $2,000, with 90,k miles, so I figure it should be totaled. Probably wont get to analyze that idle problem anytime soon!

I'll keep you posted...

Thanks for all the help thus far...

Anyone know where I can get a good tie rod thing, and all the associated parts? LOL :wipetears

Ohio Jim

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Gentlemen,

Fate has struck once again. Wife just called. Deville was hit by a GMC 2500 truck going 50 mph while she was backing into the driveway tonight! Apparently her and the 4 grandchildren are alright. Possibly a glancing blow! :fighting0025: Said the 'tie rod thing looks bad'. Car is only worth $2,000, with 90,k miles, so I figure it should be totaled. Probably wont get to analyze that idle problem anytime soon!

I'll keep you posted...

Thanks for all the help thus far...

Anyone know where I can get a good tie rod thing, and all the associated parts? LOL :wipetears

Ohio Jim

Glad she and kids are alright. Safety in big cars. Looks like your problens. Solved itself. My 2001 I hit a deer in and $2800 in damage totaled it. Its a shame because I couldn't replace it for what they gave me $1900. Unless I bought junker that was tore up.
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Jwood and Bruce,

Thanks for the well wishes! It's been a crazy week. Adjustor called Monday while we were at the dealer replacing the car and said he stopped at $7500 damage because he would have to check the value of the car to go any further. Needless to say it is totaled, so the problem did, indeed, fix itself! I hate to say it but I ended up buying a 2013 #@$%! 0&^%# with 26,k on the clock. I have literally been looking for the right Escalade for months, but the ESV's are not easy to find with low mileage. I'm sure the #@$%! 0&^%# will be fine, as we now have 6 in the family and the Deville was getting too tight in the front seat. It would have made a good work car, with 90,k miles, but now I get to continue to bark second gear in the STS every day, so I am satisfied! Depending on the buyout price, might buy the Deville and part it out with my son. This being the case, I will probably try to keep the STS on the road one more winter, so I'm sure I'll be posting questions about spark plug changes and transmission fluid changes as well. After all, it has 166,k on the clock...BUT IT RUNS STRONG!

Thanks again for all your help!

Ohio Jim

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Might want to keep a few parts for the sts. There are quite a few shared items. If you download the auto zone app when you look up a part there is a tab for camp at ability and it'll tell what other vehicles that part fits.

Congrats on new vehicle hope you enjoy it.

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Bruce, JWoods,

Well they will be picking up the Deville Monday am. Offering $5,174. I really didn't think it would be worth that much! Sure its 11 years old with only 89,988 on the clock, but I only paid $9,200 for it with 22,k on it three years ago. I figure in rough numbers it cost me $0.06/mile to drive. $9200 - $5174 / 68000 mi = $0.06. I have lived by a self directed 10 cent rule for 40 years. I've owned some nice cars and most of them only cost me less than 10 cents a mile to drive. Of course this excludes brakes, tires, wear and tear items. I've been fortunate to have well over200,000 miles on a number of cars, and enjoyed every minute, ofr less than a thin dime per mile. Ain't America GREAT!? I did not want to disclose the new car name because it goes against my grain not to buy a Cadillac, but I had to pull the trigger. It rhymes with Rhonda Modesty. :yupi3ti: Okay now I said it, I'll just jump off a bridge. It pains me not to buy American and not a Caddy. I am so sad right now. Maybe I'll get over it if I can find a Caddy to replace my STS when it finally gives up the ghost.

Thanks for reading.

Hope you will forgive me...Been drivin' nothing but Caddy's for 13 years... Of course the new car is my wife's! There, now I feel better...

Ohio Jim

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Well you being in Ohio you realize most Hondas are built here. There's places all around me that make seats, suspension, engine parts and body panels.

A lot of the "American" cars are Mexico or Canadian built with foreign built parts.

Even BMW Mercedes Toyota Nissan and others that are imports are made in usa with probably 85% or more of USA sourced parts.

So much for domestic and foreign anymore

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Well you being in Ohio you realize most Hondas are built here. There's places all around me that make seats, suspension, engine parts and body panels.

A lot of the "American" cars are Mexico or Canadian built with foreign built parts.

Even BMW Mercedes Toyota Nissan and others that are imports are made in usa with probably 85% or more of USA sourced parts.

So much for domestic and foreign anymore

Yes but 70% of the profits from foreign makes go back to a foreign country vs. the USA.

Kevin
'93 Fleetwood Brougham
'05 Deville
'04 Deville
2013 Silverado Z71

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True on the end profit. But I have neighbors that pay their bills with Honda money. And friends who own business's only because of them.

But the domestics are getting better about bringing production back home. Like the Chevy cruze

Edited by Jwoods016
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