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Intermittent CD Changer Issue


OynxSTS

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Ok this one is really weird...

About once a month... Sometimes at key on.. sometimes while I'm driving...

The stereo drops the CD Stacker from the list of sources...

There is nothing that can be done to get it back except "re-boot" the car... i.e. key off and open driver door and then fire her back up... This always works... very odd.

Because it is so intermittent I have little chance of getting it to happen so the dealer can witness it and fix it... And there are no codes stored... It does this on only OE CDs and on ones that I have burned...

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Easin' down the highway in a new Cadillac,

I had a fine fox in front, I had three more in the back

ZZTOP, I'm Bad I'm Nationwide

Greg

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I hate to tell you this but at about 30k my remote cd player crapped out--deader than a doornail, and I couldn't get the cd cartridge out. The diganisis was cd player shorted, replace cd player, and the dealer couldn't get the cartridge out either. What happend was that the cd player went to GM and they returned my cd and the cartridge.

Unlike your issue, it just crapped out. The intermittent problem makes it tough for the stealership to fix it and, if I remember correctly, your on the tail end of your warrenty--right?

I read about various problem's with the wiring in the Seville's steros. I do have an intermitten problem that happens once in a blue moon, and it's been like that since day one: Despiet the fact that the raidio was in play, oOnce in a great while, when I start the car, the remote cd player comes on, and it defaluts to # 1 cd.

All I can say is that it sucks! Do some internet searches with various phrases and see if you can find anything because the stealership aint gonna say anything about it, even if it's a known problem.

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Greg,

If you have not already tried this, the next time the CD changer disappears as a "source," immediately go into the vehicle diagnostic mode using the instrument cluster and check for stored diagnostic trouble codes (DTCs) in the 'IRC' or 'CDX' modules, without first doing your "re-boot" procedure. Although you stated that there never have been any stored DTCs, perhaps you will see them by checking for them immediately.

In any case, I think it is most likely that the CD changer is the cause of the problem. However, it would not hurt to check the wiring harness connection to the changer. You can check this yourself very easily. Fully open the console compartment that houses the changer, and remove the 7mm hex head screws that are visible at the bottom of the compartment. Then lift the changer and its plastic bracket straight up; the wiring connector is on the bottom side of the changer. It cannot hurt to disconnect and reconnect the unit, in order to ensure a good connection. While the connector is removed, you might also check for any obvious signs of "distress" for one of the wire terminals.

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OK, If one of you "dealer" guys could help me out...

There is a TSB for this problem TSB 00974A Dated JAN 2004...

"CD Changer Inoperative - Icon Disappears"... This is exactly my problem... Is there anyway someone could post or PM the TSB so I can help my dealer...

Thanks

caddy.jpg

Easin' down the highway in a new Cadillac,

I had a fine fox in front, I had three more in the back

ZZTOP, I'm Bad I'm Nationwide

Greg

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OynxSTS,

I could not find any reference to the TSB number that you provided, but I did find a similar document by searching under "CD Changer" in the online GM service manual.

It appears that you simply need to have the radio replaced in order to correct your problem.

I copied and pasted the text from the service document below. I had to reformat the text slightly, but all of the important information is there. This should be sufficient for your dealer to handle the situation. What is disconcerting is that your last post suggests that the dealer was unable to find the information for you, but I had no trouble at all, and (presumably) all of the dealers have access to the same online service that I do. <_<

CD Changer Inoperative - Icon Disappears from Radio Display - kw accessory audio Bose display intermittent U1Z U2K UM3 U1R UM5 XM #PIC3214A - (Nov 11, 2004)

CD Changer Inoperative - Icon Disappears from Radio Display

The following diagnosis might be helpful if the vehicle exhibits the symptom described in the PI.

Condition/Concern:

CD changer is inoperative and icon does not display on radio. Customer may state that this happens approximately every 3 days. If they remove the CD magazine and reinstall it, the CD changer will work once again for another 3 days.

Recommendation/Instructions:

Replace the radio with an updated part:

For RPO: UM3 Uplevel CD, XM - Replace with Part#: 15140912

For RPO: U1R Uplevel CD, Cass., XM - Replace with Part#: 15140910

For RPO: UM5 Premium CD, Cass., XM, RDS, DSP, WX, Bose, XM - Replace with Part#: 15140911

Models:

(2002 - 2004 DeVille) and (2002 - 2004 Seville)

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Thanks Mr Warrior!

This is what mine does, sort of.. It cuts out about once a month not once a week… And Oh My!! replace the whole radio!... :o I was hoping it was going to be like…

Clean Changer with compressed air… ;)

The truth is the dealer never looked… When I went for my leaking trunk, the radio was working and they tend to have the attitude “If it ain’t broken…at this very second… I ain’t going to fix it…especially not under warrantee!” <_<

PS it did it again this morning.. :angry:

caddy.jpg

Easin' down the highway in a new Cadillac,

I had a fine fox in front, I had three more in the back

ZZTOP, I'm Bad I'm Nationwide

Greg

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OynxSTS,

You are welcome! :)

No doubt the root cause of the problem is a software glitch in the radio, which causes it to lose its serial data communication with the CD changer. Since the radio cannot be reprogrmmed in the vehicle (unlike the PCM, for instance), it must be replaced entirely. Actually, this is not too difficult a task on the '98 - '04 Sevilles. I would expect the job to take 60 minutes, 90 minutes at most, including the "set up" of the new radio.

I think that it is unacceptale for the dealer to completely ignore a customer's report of a problem just because it is not "acting up" when the vehicle is in the dealer's possession. If I understand you correctly, you reported the CD changer symptoms and the fact that the problem was intermittent. So, why couldn't the dealer's service advisor have spent at least 60 seconds to review the list of bulletins, like I did?! Granted, the GM bulletin was only released in mid-November, but just checking the list takes so little effort, and it clearly matches your problem description, so what gives???!!! <_<

I don't use the CD changer in my '03 STS very much, so I have never noticed the problem. I think that I will try using it more often, to see if I also have the problem. (I hope not.)

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By the way the dealer that I go to is supposed to be one of the better ones in my area. And they didn't really ignore me... They just made me feel really uneasy about the whole situation...

When I described the problem to the service tech, the first thing she said was “we don’t work on aftermarket CD changers”. :huh: When I told her mine was OE… She shook her head in disbelief and asked to see it… She still didn’t believe that this was a factory system… I had to show her the owner’s manual… Argh… (In my head I was thinking you don't get to work on to many of these do you?) :rolleyes:

When I pushed to have it fixed she said that they would have to take the radio out and that they would ship it away and it might take several weeks to fix… Maybe she did know something…(I doubt it though) <_< We then pulled the CD cassette out and I went through with her how I have to re-initialize the system to get it to work… While the cassette was out we went through the 6 CDs in the stack… One was one that I had burned… Another was a little “beat up” She commented that I shouldn’t expect too much with homemade CDs… :(

At that point I decided: 1) To live with the radio awhile to see how bad it was and 2) in the future to wait in line for any other customer service rep.

:unsure:

caddy.jpg

Easin' down the highway in a new Cadillac,

I had a fine fox in front, I had three more in the back

ZZTOP, I'm Bad I'm Nationwide

Greg

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Mr Warrior,

One more thing... the TSB you posted has parts for only XM systems my radio is a UM5 i.e. "Fancy Bose" but is not XM... Is this an issue?

Just trying to pre-anticipate the hassle from my tech.

And while we are discussing Radios…

When you do a system test and recover all of the codes the first thing the car does is a complete “bulb test” and everything lights up...

On the radio under sources you have the following four options:

Single CD, Cassette Tape, CD Stacker, and then an Icon that looks like a floppy disk.

What is the floppy disk for?

caddy.jpg

Easin' down the highway in a new Cadillac,

I had a fine fox in front, I had three more in the back

ZZTOP, I'm Bad I'm Nationwide

Greg

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OynxSTS,

I believe that the "XM" reference in the service bulletin refers to the fact that all of these '02+ radios are compatible with the optional XM receiver, which just does not happen to be installed in your vehicle. (XM Radio was first made available on '02 Seville and Deville models, beginning in late CY '01.) So, I do not expect this to be problem for you.

I suspect that the "floppy disk" icon on the radio display is for the Mini Disc player that apparently was availbale early in the '98+ Seville generation. I never actually saw a radio equipped with this type of player, but I seem to remember a reference to the Mini Disc player in pre-'01 dealer materials. (I first contemplated buying an '00 Seville late in CY '00, when there were massive year-end discounts. But when I learned that the '01 would offer HID lamps and 17" wheels, I decided to wait a year. I spent a lot of time reviewing information on the Seville back in those days, and that is when I recall seeing the references to the Mini Disc player. However, I just checked my '01 and '03 Seville dealer catalogs, and I saw no references to the Mini Disc.) For all I know, the Mini Disc player never actually made it into production, but because a common display was used for the entire radio "family" the icon is still there. Is there anyone in this forum that owns a Cadillac equipped with a factory-installed Mini Disc player? For that matter, is the Mini Disc format still alive? I seem to recall the format being released in late '92/early '93, supported by Sony, but I have not heard much of it since. (Another case like Beta vs. VHS?)

Please post the outcome of your CD changer situation. I would be interested to know if the dealer shows any shame when you tell them that an anonymous GM engineer in an online forum was able to find the service bulletin for you in just a matter of minutes. . . <_<

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Oh where to begin? I think I need to find a new dealer…

Mr Warrior, where do you work, if it’s within 2000 Miles of Seattle, I’m driving there for service.

So I take the car in this morning, not to get the radio fixed, only to make an appointment. I wanted to draw their attention to the TSB and hopefully have them order the part so that when I do take it in it will take them 90 or so minutes and they will fix it on the first try..

Unfortunately the service rep that I like is off on vacation right now and I get my ol’ rep... I tell her about the problem and reminder her that she had looked at it before. She keys my info into their computer and says this is the first time I have reported this.... :( I told her it was intermittent and that she had talked me out of fixing it last time (6 weeks ago) and that now I had discovered a TSB on it and I would like to have it fixed.... :)

I should have ran screaming when she smiles at me and asks "What’s a TSB" :huh: ... I thought OK I'm an IT Guy and everything in my life is a three letter acronym... So I say "Technical Service Bulletin"... She smiles and says “What’s a Technical Service Bulletin?” :o Out of the corner of my eye I can see the Service Manager and he is trying very hard not to laugh… So I hand her a printout of Mr. Warrior’s TSB (I had edit the part out about the dealer not able to find the info..) and explain to her what she needs to do… And she says “Oh this helpful, off of which web site did you get this?” I told her its in the Online GM Service Manual.

Anywhere along here I was hoping that she would walk out to the car and collect the RPO codes, and verify that she needs to order the UM5 Radio. But what happened? She gets mad… “How did you get access to that?!” I tried to explain this user group, sort of gave up and and smiled and said “It doesn’t matter, I’ll just bring the car in on Monday”

And as if the car knew what had just happened… I get a “Service Stability Sys” message as I drive away… Bad Yaw Sensor!

Good thing I'm Canadian, We consider this humourous up here :lol:

caddy.jpg

Easin' down the highway in a new Cadillac,

I had a fine fox in front, I had three more in the back

ZZTOP, I'm Bad I'm Nationwide

Greg

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OynxSTS,

After reading your last post, all that I can say now is that I wish you the best of luck and hope that you have the problem resolved properly the first time! :rolleyes:

The online service manual that I used is the exact same one that is (supposedly) accessible to all GM dealers via the public internet (ID & password required). I think that the "proper" name is "Service Information". I happen to access the web site via the GM intranet, but otherwise the site is identical. I have nothing to do with "service" for GM; I happened to learn about the existence of the site a few years ago and have been using it casually ever since. I have had no formal training in its use, just what I have learned from experience. It has been my impression that all dealers are using this website rotuinely, so I am still amazed at the apparent lack of knowledge at your dealer. The document that I provided earlier is (apparently) not an "official" TSB yet -- it is only "preliminary information" (PI). It was not listed under the "bulletins" heading, but I found it by doing a text search on "CD Changer" after selecting "2002 Cadillac Seville" from the home page drop-down menus. The service document was one of only a few listed, inlcuding web pages describing standard remove/replace instructions for the CD changer. This search took me less than 60 seconds to perform, and I'm just a causal user of the web site, so shouldn't it be intuitive for a person whose entire job is servicing vehicles???!!! Sheesh! <_<

Regarding your yaw sensor DTC, I would suggest just clearing the code unless the problem persists. I once had a similar DTC appear in my '01 STS making some tight parking maneuvers at low speed just after engine start, and there was no persistent problem. (This seems to match your situation.) I attributed the occurrence to "overly zealous" diagnsotic software in the electronic control module. Of course, if the problem recurs, or is persistent, then there may be a real problem.

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The online service manual that I used is the exact same one that is (supposedly) accessible to all GM dealers via the public internet (ID & password required). I think that the "proper" name is "Service Information".

Thanks Again Road!

I'd give my left one for 90 minutes on that site!

caddy.jpg

Easin' down the highway in a new Cadillac,

I had a fine fox in front, I had three more in the back

ZZTOP, I'm Bad I'm Nationwide

Greg

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UPDATE!

And sorry for the long post!

So I take the car in this morning and I get the 'ol Rep.. You know the one I really like. ;) She gives me a total run-a-round (again) regarding having the radio fixed and (sorry Mr Warrior) says that any information that I get off of the internet (or this site) is worthless. :o Further, she doesn't believe me when I tell her the info is off of GM’s own computer and that her tech just needs to search 2002 Seville and CD Changer and he will find the same thing that the anonymous GM engineer (who I owe several beer) on this site did. However at that very moment the car does it! (I love this car). So she says, “we’ll fix any problem that you can prove” <_<

So while the car is in the shop I mention the crunching noise that the front suspension makes over speed bumps and she asks me to demonstrate it. Like a champ, the car makes a perfect crunch over the first speed bump we inch over. She says “Oh that sounds awful like its hitting the bumper or something.” I figure I’m on a roll so I mention the Stability System error that occurred the last time I was at the dealership. She refuses to add it to work order because “it’s not current” :angry: Fine (I guess) so I leave the car with her with the final instruction fix anything that is warranted under warrantee.

6 hours later I get a voicemail that the radio is fixed and that the car is ready. :) When I go to pick it up she says the tech looked at the stability and suspension system (she interchanged the two of them randomly) and that the noises and historic code were “normal” and that since there was nothing wrong with the car she wanted $55.00 plus tax for the diagnostic effort!!!! :angry::huh::angry:

I tell her. “So, if there were something wrong with the car, that you thought sounded ‘awful’, you would have fixed it for free. But since there is nothing wrong you want $55.00!” She says “Yes, you need to pay for the ½ hour of tech time”. I asked to speak to her manager

I never did get to speak to the manager, but after 10 minutes at the counter she comes back and says this was all an error and there would be no charge.

Wait… it gets better, as I start to walk away she shares with me that when she said the radio was fixed what she meant was that they had removed the original radio, verified that it was the original radio, ordered the new updated radio, and reinstalled the old radio!. :blink::huh::blink:

I asked why they did that and she says that this problem is quite common, and that they didn’t want to order the new radio if this fix had already been done to the car! (I’m sure that makes sense to someone) I asked when the radio would be in she said she has no idea; she’ll give me a call!!! <_<

Sensing that I was not very happy with any of this another service rep (not the manager) came over and told me that I really should invest in an extended warrantee for a car as complicated as this one. It has 4 separate processors your know! :blink:

On a positive note they did a really great job of washing and vacuuming the car!

One last shot... As I take my wife to dinner I ask "Shall I re-boot the CD Changer" She laughs and says "Heck no! If it's working when you take it back they will refuse to install the new radio and probably charge you a re-stocking fee!"

:lol:

caddy.jpg

Easin' down the highway in a new Cadillac,

I had a fine fox in front, I had three more in the back

ZZTOP, I'm Bad I'm Nationwide

Greg

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Mr Warrior,

I might need your assistance again. The part is in. And the car goes back in tomorrow. One small wrinkle: They didn’t order 15140911, they ordered 09384346. :huh:

Can you help me, has 15140911 been superseded with 09384346? Or is this an XM vs non XM radio issue… or maybe Canadian part vs American Part? GM wouldn’t ship the dealer an old radio with the problem would they?

Thanks again for your help I owe you big on this one!

PS I fixed the suspension crunch myself, one of the strut-boots was half turned inside out and was rubbing on the top of the strut.

caddy.jpg

Easin' down the highway in a new Cadillac,

I had a fine fox in front, I had three more in the back

ZZTOP, I'm Bad I'm Nationwide

Greg

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OynxSTS,

It appears that I do not have access to any database that can tell me the status of the part number that was given in the "preliminary" service bulletin. (I will speculate that perhaps it is so preliminary that the proper parts are not yet available???) The part number that was ordered by the dealer is a valid number for a radio, but it dates to Feb. 2001, which makes me question if it can incorporate the recent software "fix" that (apparently) was implemented for the CD changer problem. Interestingly, the online parts catalog for the '02 Seville lists a third entirely different service part number. :blink:

I do not believe that the part number discrepancy is related to US vs. Canada part number differences, or XM vs. non-XM parts.

I am afraid that I cannot give you a definitive answer on this question. The best advice that I can offer you is to question your dealer contact how he/she really knows that the part number that was ordered is indeed the correct one per the service bulletin's instructions. (They do now acknowledge that the service information that I posted is valid, right?) The part that has been ordered may or may not be correct, I just do not know for sure. :(

Given your recent experience at your dealer, I am sure that you are not looking forward to having to press them on this question, but I think that you are right to ask.

Good luck. . . <_<

PS - I am happy to know that you were able to fix the suspension noise issue.

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I wish I could say that the problem is fixed. It is not :(

Almost exactly 1 week ago the dealer swapped out my radio and installed part no 09384346. I asked about 15140911 and was told "This is not a valid part number" So I figure that the dealer and his techs are bound to know more about this car than me...

For this round of fixes, I’m going to try two things… First I’ll call the Parts Manager (who I also know on a first name basis) and ask him to look up 1540911… and have him fax me a description of it…

Then I’ll try again to take Mr Warriors post in and have the dealer install the updated radio… I'm almost tempted to get the part guy to order it for me... So that its there ready for my appointment...

One other “Odd” thing with this Radio… The PTY button does nothing…Related? Or do they all do that?

This problem must be really rare... For anyone on this post with an 02-04 It is easy to trigger, just fill your stacker and then don't listen to any CDs for 3 or 4 days...

caddy.jpg

Easin' down the highway in a new Cadillac,

I had a fine fox in front, I had three more in the back

ZZTOP, I'm Bad I'm Nationwide

Greg

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OynxSTS

Don't you just "luv" those service writers. Fortunately, I've had good luck with the Caddy dealer I use in Portland. I had to do a double take because at first I thought you were in Vancouver WA, bit you're in Vancouver BC. Portland is probably some 300 + miles from you. I'd hate to replace the system in mine. It has the NAV system.

Jim

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GM wouldn’t ship the dealer an old radio with the problem would they?

Oh and the answer to this question is

You bet they would! Absolutely!

caddy.jpg

Easin' down the highway in a new Cadillac,

I had a fine fox in front, I had three more in the back

ZZTOP, I'm Bad I'm Nationwide

Greg

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Another Update. I hope this will be my last post on this.

The part manager verified that part no 09384346 is the POS radio and that he guesses that all 09384346 radios in 2002-2004 Sevilles and maybe 2002-2005 Devilles will have this issue.

The parts manager also guesses that given my 2002 is a "very early" one (mine was built in the summer of 01) and given the date of part 09384346 he feels that GM probably didn't install too many and switched to a different part.

BTW I asked about 15140911 and he couldn't find it in the system. He did find part no 25749792. Which they ordered and will install by the end of the week...

My fingers are crossed.

caddy.jpg

Easin' down the highway in a new Cadillac,

I had a fine fox in front, I had three more in the back

ZZTOP, I'm Bad I'm Nationwide

Greg

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The problem with your dealer is classic. It's time versus money. It takes time to do the proper research, which costs money. Many techs rely on past experiences and don't bother to do the research. To many techs, it is also a job, not like the enthuisiast who spends hours with their own cars, they spend their entire week with them. It is a double edged sword. Knowledge here is power for you, but some get offended. Imagine a customer of your company coming to your work place and telling you how to do your job. Imagine if that same person was right! It would make you feel very uncomfortable. This is no excuse but we are talking about human nature here. Try telling them that you CALLED GM tech support instead of "finding things on the net". I've seen many work orders with "customer called GM" it gets the attention of the tech! You have the knowledge but you need a different approach, these are human beings that seem insecure in their own abilities, and you are questioning it. Try this with a different dealer and see what you get.

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Styes,

You are so right. There are two customer services reps at my dealer who work the early shift when I usually take my car in. The one that I like is very secure in his job and in his knowledge of cars and seems to get a kick out of it when I bring the car in with the trunk disassembled so I can show him exactly where to smear the goo.

He also got right into it on Tuesday as we walked over to the Parts Manager’s office and we started searching radio part numbers. When this is all done I plan to call the Service Manager and let him know that "Bill" provides outstanding customer service.

The other rep, is not so knowledgeable and not so secure.

I guess the reason I found the experience so bad with the "insecure rep" was that customer service is what I do. Almost everyone who walks into my office is a "customer" and honestly, I love it when they tell me what they want done. This makes it easy for me to make them happy... Especially when they are right!

And isn't that what it's all about.

caddy.jpg

Easin' down the highway in a new Cadillac,

I had a fine fox in front, I had three more in the back

ZZTOP, I'm Bad I'm Nationwide

Greg

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