Duce Posted July 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2014 I would like to see this also. Wonder why the housing would be chewed up inside. I could see maybe some corrosion in the housing by the cover, Another thing is if not removed properly the water pump can damage the housing. But I have yet to see one mself I know he had trouble getting the old water pump out, it looked horrible. I will post a pic as soon as i can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockfangd Posted July 7, 2014 Report Share Posted July 7, 2014 they can be difficult to remove but the key is removing it properly. I think even if the water pump was wobbly it still wouldnt chew up the housing. I know the crossover is not a fun housing to do. The only brightside is that you wont have to worry about the gaskets leaking when they are done GM FAN FOREVER Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duce Posted July 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2014 they can be difficult to remove but the key is removing it properly. I think even if the water pump was wobbly it still wouldnt chew up the housing. I know the crossover is not a fun housing to do. The only brightside is that you wont have to worry about the gaskets leaking when they are done Yes true... the problem I'm having now is finding one locally. Waiting to hear back from some one from here. i located one on ebay as well, finally found a salvage yard that even had a Seville. From reading I've found they are compatible to 95-99 Sevilles and el dorados. Ebay shipping is just way to long, Coming out of California Ugh. Not trying to wait two weeks. Thanks will keep posting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockfangd Posted July 7, 2014 Report Share Posted July 7, 2014 please post a pic when you can of your current housing as I am very curious as to how it is damaged. I can see the cam pulley and tensioner pulley getting damaged but not usually the housing GM FAN FOREVER Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duce Posted July 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2014 please post a pic when you can of your current housing as I am very curious as to how it is damaged. I can see the cam pulley and tensioner pulley getting damaged but not usually the housing ok will do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Jim Posted July 7, 2014 Report Share Posted July 7, 2014 I can guess. The water pump needs a special tool: Note that the tool engages the water pump around the edges with dogs. In addition it is installed with a left-hand thread. If the mechanic tapped it out with a punch or chisel, he probably ruined the crossover housing. He will need the same tool to install the new water pump or he is likely to ruin the new crossover housing. -- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data -- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duce Posted July 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2014 I can guess. The water pump needs a special tool: Note that the tool engages the water pump around the edges with dogs. In addition it is installed with a left-hand thread. If the mechanic tapped it out with a punch or chisel, he probably ruined the crossover housing. He will need the same tool to install the new water pump or he is likely to ruin the new crossover housing. yes, he used that tool. He had a hard time getting it off even with this tool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Jim Posted July 7, 2014 Report Share Posted July 7, 2014 He apparently did not realize that the water pump uses a left-hand thread. Or, he got impatient with a sticking water pump and used an impact wrench or some such. Those things can be nasty. -- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data -- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duce Posted July 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2014 He apparently did not realize that the water pump uses a left-hand thread. Or, he got impatient with a sticking water pump and used an impact wrench or some such. Those things can be nasty I will find out for sure if he knew or not. I know for sure he didn't use an impact wrench. Would that damage the housing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Jim Posted July 7, 2014 Report Share Posted July 7, 2014 An impact wrench will damage almost anything short of a lug nut. I was using a hyperbole. I once had a dealer tech pull the lead through the battery case on my Eldorado when it was new, apparently by using an air wrench to tighten a battery terminal. Sometimes when a part is very balky, as a reverse-flow water pump in an aluminum casting can be, expediency may take the place of patience and a breaker bar with seemingly endless tapping with a brass mallet. But when working with aluminum castings, damage to the aluminum is always waiting in the wings. Try to be supportive, but watch out for a pattern. -- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data -- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duce Posted July 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 Thanks I do wanna say he used a breaker bar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duce Posted July 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 He said he was aware of that and did it the proper way. He did say there was something right on the front of the car that said that as well..... I think I made him a little upset, he said this isn't his first cadillac he's worked on. oops Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted July 8, 2014 Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 I am confused as to why you removed the water pump crossover??? I've not heard anything that goes wrong with the casting itself. Sometimes the gaskets leak but that's about it. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockfangd Posted July 8, 2014 Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 it may not be hers. I dont know if she is just using a pic from somewhere or if it is hers. I would say not GM FAN FOREVER Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duce Posted July 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 no that isn't mine I actually found that pic off this site. I was using it when trying to find the part. Auto part stores seemed not to know what I was talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Jim Posted July 8, 2014 Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 This is an engine casting, and not a commonly seen one like a cylinder head or manifold. You won't find these in parts stores. They are a dealer item, and I checked, they are discontinued. -- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data -- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duce Posted July 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 Thanks Jim, I had called the GM dealership, they told me the same thing... I found one on ebay... but the shipping time is just so long... if I have no other choice that is what I will have to do. But trying here in Florida first, that part is out in San Diego, California. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Jim Posted July 8, 2014 Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 Actually there should be Northstars in recycling yards that sell engine parts lcoally. Do a web search on auto recyclers in your area and call around. Look for "Water pump housing" and "coolant crossover" but see the part before you buy it. -- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data -- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted July 8, 2014 Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 Where is the coolant leaking? From the actual water pump cavity, the two end gaskets on the water pump crossover, or the cover (that needs to be removed to access the water pump)? From what I can gather, the person who was replacing the water pump did not realize that the pump cartridge needs to be turned CLOCKWISE to remove it and damaged the surface of the casting that the pump o-ring contacts and now wants the vehicle owner to pay for a new crossover casting. There should not be a problem finding a good used water pump crossover casting in a junkyard. I have used an impact wrench on Northstar water pumps - many times with neglected cooling systems, the pump cartridge will not budge with a breaker bar and the socket will slip off the pump cartridge. This is especially true with the cheap sheet metal type sockets. A quick burst with an impact will loosen them enough so they can be removed, Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duce Posted July 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 Thanks guys I've looked in the local recycle yards close to me but was not able to find the one i'm looking for. Have called several out of my area and waiting to hear back. I'm able to get a hold of one. Just checking these options first. And yes its got a a drip from around the housing its self. Already replaced the o ring and seal around the piece that comes off from around the pump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted July 8, 2014 Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 Thanks guys I've looked in the local recycle yards close to me but was not able to find the one i'm looking for. Have called several out of my area and waiting to hear back. I'm able to get a hold of one. Just checking these options first. And yes its got a a drip from around the housing its self. Already replaced the o ring and seal around the piece that comes off from around the pump. They should be able to come up with one - there are a lot of those cars in the junkyard that have been scrapped due to bad headgaskets. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockfangd Posted July 8, 2014 Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 IIRC there is 2 pump housing gaskets available. first and second design This is the waterpump cover and thermostat housing. Is it leaking between the crossover and this housing? I am a little confused on this. Isnt there a o-ring that seals the pump to the crossover? It has been a little while since I did one but thought I remember having some issue with a o-ring to the pump. If everything went back together ok then something may just be out of place or missing. GM FAN FOREVER Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Jim Posted July 8, 2014 Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 Note that KHE just got one on me. An experienced mechanic with the right touch can use an impact wrench to break loose a sticking water pump. Just don't try this at home. I believe that the water pump seals to the housing with an O-ring. If that seal is OK and the threads are OK, you should be able to use your old housing again. -- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data -- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockfangd Posted July 8, 2014 Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 well what I am wondering is if the waterpump o-ring is either damaged or missing. Not a hard thing to do GM FAN FOREVER Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Jim Posted July 8, 2014 Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 I haven't done that job but when an O-ring us used as the seal, tightening down the fitting bottoms metal-to-metal and the O-ring is compressed as planned and forms a seal. The O-ring can be between the fitting and the outside, or against the flat - as I believe that is the case with the water pump. It's possible but unlikely that someone didn't use an O-ring or pinched it and overtightened things to minimize the leak. That wouldn't prevent a new O-ring from sealing. -- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data -- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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