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Bought another caddy. I must be crazy


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The stud on the back is the ground. In my FSM it goes to G107, which is on the engine in my FSM but a mechanic that fixed G107 for me said it was a chassis ground; I think a mechanic stripped it out and moved it. The other ground is through the connector and harness and goes to G110, also on the engine block, and the same mechanic told me the same thing about my G110, that it was a chassis ground. It worked fine after that so wherever it goes, it's OK so long as it passes the ohmmeter test.

There are two big red wires in the connector that both go to the 50 Amp BRAKES maxifuse, and that is the power to the ABS pump motor. Switching is via a relay in the EBTCM. Power to the motor is through teminal 8 of the manifold-to-EBTCM connector, which is closed when you mount the EBTCM on the brake manifold.

The relay is probably what has gone bad, not the pump motor. If so, this can be fixed by refurbishing your EBTCM. You don't open up the brake fluid system when you pull the EBTCM.

So far as I know the pump motor is part of the Brake Pressure Modulator Valve (BPMV) and it is not a serviceable part in itself. To take off the BPMV you have to take off all the brake lines. I would avoid that until you are sure that the EBTCM is OK and it still doesn't work.

The EBTCM and BPMV are Bosch parts and the connector between them is not detailed in the FSM. What I do have from the figure on page 8A-44-0 is this table:

Terminal Connection
8 Pump motor power
7 Ground for solenoids
12 LF Isolation Valve
11 LF Prime Valve
3 RF Isolation Valve
4 RF Prime Valve
14 LF Hold Valve
9 LF Release Vavle
1 RF Hold Valve
6 RF Release Valve
2 LR Hold Valve
5 LR Release Valve
13 RR Hold Valve
10 RR Release Valve

Terminal Connection 8 Pump motor power 7 Ground for solenoids 12 LF Isolation Valve 11 LF Prime Valve 3 RF Isolation Valve 4 RF Prime Valve 14 LF Hold Valve 9 LF Release Vavle 1 RF Hold Valve 6 RF Release Valve 2 LR Hold Valve 5 LR Release Valve 13 RR Hold Valve 10 RR Release Valve

Terminal Connection 8 Pump motor power 7 Ground for solenoids 12 LF Isolation Valve 11 LF Prime Valve 3 RF Isolation Valve 4 RF Prime Valve 14 LF Hold Valve 9 LF Release Vavle 1 RF Hold Valve 6 RF Release Valve 2 LR Hold Valve 5 LR Release Valve 13 RR Hold Valve 10 RR Release Valve

You might try taking of the EBTCM and looking at the connector. If you can identify the ground connection, the ground connection on the EBTCM side will let you identify the power line to the pump. If you can do that, you can identify the power lead to the pump as the one next to it. A quick ohmmeter check can tell if the pump is open or shorted out (note that a resistance of about 1 Ohm is probably OK). If power there turns on the pump, the problem is with the EBTCM and the pump is OK.

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-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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I appreciate the responses. The one above is very useful.

I found that the 98+ is a different ABS unit. I tried using my 97 FSM to pinpoint terminals and found it did not match. Same pin setup on both plugs but different purposes.

Anyway I have some good news. I am giving up on the ABS problem, I am going to put the car on the road next week and see how it does for awhile, then I will decide what to do about a replacement unit.

I also (fixed) the door panel for now using an old trick I have with this style door panel. I have used it on many of the Eldos and Sevilles with panels as bad as this one.

I utilize P clamps and bend them into a flat L shape and screw it to the top of the curve where the broken clips are present, I did it with this one and it holds tight to the door. Only bad thing is the whole bracket by the switches is gone so I could not repair that. I will post a picture of how I make the P clamps work. I cleaned the car out a bit. I just hope it does ok when I put it on the road. I worry about the headgasket problem and will not have the money to get it repaired if it does.

The torque convertor on my 96 Deville is shot and the subframe bolts wont budge due to the rust and likely never being pulled so I have been getting horrible fuel economy with it. 13 if I am lucky. The TCC will not even attempt lockup and the SES light no longer goes out.

GM FAN FOREVER

Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile

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The subframe bolts can be a PITA if they're frozen/corroded. All the subframe nuta are accessable with a torch EXCEPT for the rear two.

I went through that on my STS when I replaced the transmission at the end of last year. I had two bolts that would not budge and used a pry bar to wedge between the body and the subframe, With me standing on the prybar and my wife working the impact wrench, one of them came out. The one that was completely hidden/no access would not come out. I was able to break it free but the captive nut began to spin. IN hindsight, I should have tightened it back up and then loosened it a few more turns, then tighten it up, etc. I had to cut the inner fender to access the nut in order to use a oxy-acetylene torch to heat it up. It then came out.

After the bolts were out, I chased the threads in the nuts with a tap and the threads on the bolt with a die, then applied a good amount of anti sieze compound to the bolts. They torqued up and loosened just fine after that.

Once I was done with the job, I bent the tab I cut in the inner fender back into place, welded it closed, ground the welds smooth, primed, painted, and undercoated the area. It is so far back in that the tire completely covers the area.

Kevin
'93 Fleetwood Brougham
'05 Deville
'04 Deville
2013 Silverado Z71

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I think all of them are going to be like that on this one. It has been a NY car since 97 and it is looking it. Have to say more solid than most cars around my year. I have lost count of how many subframes have fallen out around here due to rot.

GM FAN FOREVER

Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile

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I have the 2002 FSM on DVD and have the EBTCM schematic:

200x_ETC_EBTCM.png

Although the part number is different for 1998 and later, the schematic is identical, so the difference is probably just internal. Stabilitrak improved over the years from time to time, and the EBTCM is where it lives (as well as ABS and TC), so processor and RAM upgrades probably are in place, and the firmware is specific to the model as well as the year.

The information given in post #51 above was taken from the 1997 FSM but you will note from the figure above that the wire assignments in the connector between the EBTCM and the BPMV applies to the 2002 Eldorado too.

There are other connections to the EBTCM through the main connector, such as the accelerometers and gyro, that aren't on this diagram.

CTS-V_LateralGs_6-2018_tiny.jpg
-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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Thanks, I appreciate your time. see what I was hoping to do was to try to manually cycle the pump to get it working again, When I bought the car it tried to work and I kept trying to cycle it, but now it doesnt work at all. Is it likely the pump could have seized up? I have yet to have a ABS pump or EBTCM fail on a cadillac because of the place they are located keeps them decent

GM FAN FOREVER

Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile

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I would locate the wire directly to the pump in the connector and try 12 Volts across the pump. If the pump turns, it's a relay in the EBTCM. I would say that if the pump doesn't turn it's usually the EBTCM, not the pump, but if you can put 12 Volts across the pump and test it then you know for sure.

Relays int the EBTCM can be replaced by services out there that refurbish and test your EBTCM and return it, or you can exchange yours for a refurbished unit.

CTS-V_LateralGs_6-2018_tiny.jpg
-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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Make sure to unplug the pump before applying 12V to it - do not attempt to apply voltage the pump plugged in or you risk backfeeding the EBTCM and that could damage it.

Kevin
'93 Fleetwood Brougham
'05 Deville
'04 Deville
2013 Silverado Z71

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I dont see any way to apply voltage to the pump unless you remove the EBTCM. The wire to the pump has no plug and goes directly into the unit. I would hope it could be the EBTCM because I would rather not have to replace all of the lines and calipers, etc... Not willing to put that much money in it without knowing how good it will run on a daily basis

GM FAN FOREVER

Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile

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That's right. You must remove the EBTCM from the BPMV and identify the wire in the BPMV that is the power to the ABS motor. If you can do that and establish that the motor works, you can eliminate the BPMV. Since power to the motor is controlled by a relay in the EBTCM, you can't test the motor separately without pulling the EBTCM.

That being said, if you are not getting codes for a dead EBTCM or a bad motor then the most likely cause is a bad relay in the EBTCM.

CTS-V_LateralGs_6-2018_tiny.jpg
-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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Update 5/3/2014

I took apart the steering column to fix the cancelling problem. It was the springs on the turn signal switch were broken. I replaced the springs and the cam kit. Voila. they work good now.

Car is going on the road monday. Been running good. Doesnt show any signs of headgasket problem yet but exhaust does smell which makes me worry a little bit. I think it stinks because of the old gas and the fact of running it for however long with the bad coil.

This car does worry me though because of the condition of it. I am keeping my fingers crossed that it will be reliable. It will be my daily driver

which means it will be driven just about everywhere.

Tomorrow I am going to try to shampoo the carpet to get rid of the smells and stains, Also need to look at the drivers seat. the heat does not work for it. I know from previous experiences that the eldos have a common problem with the pivot between the seat back and bottom due to the folding backs, the wires pull and pinch in the frames of the seat. I hope that is my problem.

I thank all who have taken the time to keep up with this ongoing thread

GM FAN FOREVER

Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile

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Update 5/3/2014

I took apart the steering column to fix the cancelling problem. It was the springs on the turn signal switch were broken. I replaced the springs and the cam kit. Voila. they work good now.

Nicely done

Bruce

2016 Cadillac ATS-V gray/black

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Got some good but weird news today. I drove the eldo.

I filled the gas with 91 non ethanol and a bottle of chevron techron. Hopefully it keeps the fuel gauge working.

I am surprised as to how nice this car rides. It rides better than both of my other caddys.

Very smooth and quiet. The transmission shifts so smooth you cant feel it. torque convertor works nicely.

Engine is running very smooth and smoke from the exhaust is very minimal.

The weird news is that the second time I started and drove it the abs and traction control lights went out. I cycled the pump with the scantool a good 30 times and it cycled fine. That is weird. I would not be surprised if they come back though.

Overall better than I expected. Coolant temp got to 220 when idling in the driveway but went back down to 205 on its own.

Tomorrow I will start driving it regularly and I hope the bugs work themselves out

GM FAN FOREVER

Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile

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One of two things happened with the ABS pump: either the relay started working again or the pump unstuck. If the relay started working again, as it probably was or the pump would likely have blown the 50 Amp BRAKE Maxifuse, then cobwebs went away and you are good to go. If it was the pump sticking, then perhaps you should consider flushing the brake fluid. A check in the master cylinder to see if what's in there still looks like brake fluid should be the real decision maker. If the seal has held and it's still good, then you are done with the ABS/TC/ESC unless the lights and codes come back.

I wouldn't worry about the smell of the exhaust with old gas in the car unless it smelled like coolant. If it smell like burning kerosine or burning paint or whatever, that's normal for really old gas.

If the temperature is going up a little while stopped at idle with the A/C off, that's normal. The fans don't come on LOW until the ECT says 229 F. Turn on the A/C so that the fans come on LOW and the temperature will remain nailed at about 200 F while idling.

CTS-V_LateralGs_6-2018_tiny.jpg
-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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Well today went well. Car is legal now.

This car is the smoothest riding car I have ever bought. It just glides over the roads. The suspension is soft but solid.

I also got the driver seat heater working. The fuse was blown in the rear compartment. Clearly nobody has ever touched it before because it still had the plastic over the fuses. Now the seat heats nicely. the seats are very soft also.

ABS and traction lights came back but dont when you clear the code.

I have 7 out of 9 monitors cleared. All I need is one more to get it to pass NYSI. I pray that the check engine light stays out so I can get it to pass. I have gone 50 miles so far.

I am definately surprised how nice this car rides but it is a true cadillac

GM FAN FOREVER

Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile

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Well wonderful news. Got NYSI passed today with no problems

Only monitor that has not cleared is the evap and it wont til the gas gets down to around 3/4. I must say the fuel economy is good.

Now I just have to work out the rest of the cobwebs. I am hoping to be trouble free for awhile so I can drive it daily

GM FAN FOREVER

Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile

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Also, you need to update your avatar block so that your 2001 Eldoado is listed.

CTS-V_LateralGs_6-2018_tiny.jpg
-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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What is a avatar? is that the thing to the left of our posts? if so I will change it. thanks

GM FAN FOREVER

Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile

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The car(s) you drive, as listed in your Profile, is what needs to be updated. The avatar photo is great.

CTS-V_LateralGs_6-2018_tiny.jpg
-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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Well I have some wonderful news.

I had the opportunity to buy a 98 ETC parts car today.

I drove my Seville 150 miles to look at the car. It was from south carolina, had a blown engine. The Seville ran perfect and rode good.

I did not care to buy the car when I looked at so the seller allowed me to pull whatever I wanted from it.

I am thrilled, I got

Both door panels complete with switches. need repair but very good condition

all 4 mats

both taillights

front grille

and some other miscelaneous parts. The color matches my eldo.

so I benefited by giving my Seville a nice straight highway haul, and I found a bunch of hard to find parts.

I also shampooed the carpets in my eldo and installed the mats.

I do have a few questions though

Do the front floor mats wider section go toward the firewall or toward the seats? I dont know if I have them in right.

Did they ever resolve the clock running fast issue by 2000? little issue that has driven me nuts on my other 2 caddys.

Also does the 01 eldorado have a cabin air filter(s).

Thanks all. I will post some pictures on the next nice day. this car already is 100% improvement over what it was when I picked it up

GM FAN FOREVER

Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile

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It's been a year but I recall the wide part going toward the front, laying up against the firewall. The neoprene sections are under the pedals so you can use that to tell which is the passenger side and which is the driver's side.

I never had a problem with my clock. As I recall from a TSB posted here some time back, the issue was resolved by a new PZM, and was rare. You had two? That should never have gotten past warranty.

My 1997 ETC did not have a cabin filter. As best I can tell from the 2002 FSM, the 2002 Eldorado does not have a cabin filter, and I believe that the 2000-2002 Eldorados were very similar across those model years.

CTS-V_LateralGs_6-2018_tiny.jpg
-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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thanks.

Both my 96 and 97 run fast. Dealer has told me that being the TSB has been taken care of there is nothing that can be done other than replacing the pzms again. Too expensive to be worth it.

I guess I installed the mats correctly so thanks for that. Also glad to see there are no cabin air filters. There is no neoprene sections in either front mat. My seville doesnt have any either.

GM FAN FOREVER

Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile

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I never had a problem with my clock. As I recall from a TSB posted here some time back, the issue was resolved by a new PZM, and was rare. You had two? That should never have gotten past warranty.

I had a '96 Seville SLS that had the "fast clock". I purchased the car in 2000 with 56000 miles on it - It was just out of warranty. My wife was the principle driver on that car so I didn't notice the clock was fast until a few months after we purchased it. There was a TSB on the issue, not a recall. The cost of a replacement PZM was out of sight so I just lived with it. My '97 Seville STS clock is fine so I'm guessing the problem was discovered and fixed sometime in the '97 model year.

Kevin
'93 Fleetwood Brougham
'05 Deville
'04 Deville
2013 Silverado Z71

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From what I understand, I don't believe that the problem was with the design but with a supplier of clock/watch crystals, and that a clock crystal was part of the PZM electronics, which are not serviceable except by replacing the PZM. But some clocks skipped time and did other things besides just gain time.

I would want the clock to work right in my Cadillac.

Does the PZM need to be programmed for the car or can you just replace it with one from a recycling yard?

CTS-V_LateralGs_6-2018_tiny.jpg
-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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Yeah - I recall the problem was the crystal for the time circuit. I would try to open up the PZM and replace the crystal if the unit wasn't all potted but that's just me.

I think you can just swap PZMs.

Kevin
'93 Fleetwood Brougham
'05 Deville
'04 Deville
2013 Silverado Z71

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