Cadillac Jim Posted February 4, 2014 Report Share Posted February 4, 2014 From e-mail: I have been trouble shooting a battery drain for a couple of days now with a little luck but still not resolved. I have a 1.9A drain but when I pull the comfort fuse it will drop to 30mA where it should. I have been searching on line and after reading several of your posts I decided to contact you directly. It is not the RKE (I disconnected), CD changer (there isn't one). That leaves CPR (when pulled nothing changes) CPBR ( when pulled along with CPR nothing changes), ACM (digital cluster above steering wheel that was replaced about 2 months ago, do not know if power drain was before or after that), and the PZM. Your insight will be greatly appreciated. This car belongs to an older lady on a limited income that goes to my church and this is her only transportation and I would like to get it taken care of for free to her rather than have her pay somebody. The drain of 1.9 A is about what one would see in a bright bulb, such as the trunk light, underhood light, or perhaps even the glove box light. I'm going to assume that you have run the OBD codes and there is nothing there to help with finding the battery drain. I think pulling fuses is a good way to track down the power drain. You have identified one fuse, the Comfort fuse, that identifies a part of the circuit where the drain is. I'm going to use the 1997 FSM to work from that input. The COMFORT fuse is shown on page 8A-10-9 as being a 10 Amp fuse in the trunk compartment fuse block. Page 8A-11-25 shows that fuse feeding the PZM, the CD changer, the heater and A/C programmer, the RFA module, and the coil for the controlled power relay. You don't have a CD changer and have disconnected the RFA (fob link and module, or RKE as you call it in your post). I think that the problem is most likely to be in the CONTROLLED POWER relay in the trunk compartment relay center #3. Try pulling that relay and see if that stops the drain. If so, put back the connector to the RFA and everything else that you have disconnected. Since the problem stops when you pull the COMFORT fuse, the logic that follows assumes the relay is sticking, shorted, or the PZM isn't turning it off. The Controlled Accessory Power remains on when the key is turned off, but will turn off when you open the car door. If it doesn't, the relay is probably bad (sticking). You'll have to close the door again to check because of the courtesy lights. You can check the BLK wire on terminal B8 of the Trunk Compartment Relay Center #3; if it goes to 12 Volts when the car door is opened but the radio stays on, the relay is sticking. Be careful because that wire goes to the PZM which is static-sensitive. There is another relay, the Controlled Power Back-Up Relay, that keeps turns on the controlled power when the key is turned on. You might pull this one too and see if everything is OK while the other relay is plugged in. If not, then this relay could be stuck or shorted. After you've checked out the relays, come back and we will declare victory or continue the diagnosis, as appropriate. -- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data -- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockfangd Posted February 4, 2014 Report Share Posted February 4, 2014 previous post couldnt have been anymore specific. GM FAN FOREVER Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alwayslearning Posted February 4, 2014 Report Share Posted February 4, 2014 I checked both items and saw no change in the amp draw. With key off radio shuts off when door is opened. Yes, I have already checked the codes and it is good to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alwayslearning Posted February 4, 2014 Report Share Posted February 4, 2014 I went to the salvage yard today and got another PZM module and installed. No change in amps being drawn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterset Posted February 4, 2014 Report Share Posted February 4, 2014 Check under the under hood fuse lock for corrosion. I recall a while back, a member on this board had a corrosive wire where in the outside it looked fine, but inside was green and corroded. For whatever reason, it was also drawing a load. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alwayslearning Posted February 4, 2014 Report Share Posted February 4, 2014 Also wanted to add that I had battery and alternator checked a couple of weeks ago. Battery failed and I replaced. Alternator passed and cluster always showed higher volts than 12.3 except when first started. Just to be safe I took it off the car and had it bench tested because one of the codes I got was saying open circuit on L1. Sure enough it showed an output of only 11.2 volts. I replaced and thought I was done. Next morning car would not start. That is what put me on the road to chasing this drain down. So could this drain be related to the cluster considering that it is connected to the comfort fuse where I am getting my high amp draw? Yes, I think I may have figured out what is causing the draw, but if it is, then do I replace like the person did before me, or could it be in the wiring between the battery/ignition/alternator? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alwayslearning Posted February 5, 2014 Report Share Posted February 5, 2014 Check under the under hood fuse lock for corrosion. I recall a while back, a member on this board had a corrosive wire where in the outside it looked fine, but inside was green and corroded. For whatever reason, it was also drawing a load. Would this also tie in with my previous post? It is very wet, cold, and late or I would be out there looking at that right now. I will take a look at it first thing in the morning. I don't just want to fix the problem, but understand it as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alwayslearning Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 Good News!!!! I found the drain! Once I disconnected the instrument cluster the amp draw dropped to 0.029mA. The cluster was replaced due to not working properly. I am going to hook the old cluster back up tomorrow just to confirm. I will update after I confirm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 In all the troubleshooting, you are waiting long enough for the PZM to "go asleep" correct? I believe you are but want to make sure so you don't go down the wrong path. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAUL T Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 I had a brake switch out of adjustment that caused my brake lights to stay on. They would come on sometime during the night drain the battery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alwayslearning Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 Yes, I have been waiting, double checking and waiting some more. It's not as simple as clamping the door switch closed, lol. I disconnect amp meter before I do anything so that I don't blow a fuse in my meter or even worse, create more issues with the car. For those that don't know, every time you reconnect the amp meter, the 10 minutes starts all over again. That is what makes this process seem so difficult (time consuming)! I spent more time on this computer than working on the car. So many people with "different" issues with battery drain, but after they ask 100's of questions and finally figure out what is wrong (or give up) they fail to log back in and give the results. So if you are reading this post and you need help, please show some respect to the individuals that are always taking time out of their day to help those of us with a problem. It is simple, you should always reply with the final results. If they can take the time out of there day to give me a solution, then I can take a few minutes out of mine to give them the results. That is just common courtesy and it also helps individuals in the future. Cadillac Jim, Rockfangd, Winterset, KHE, Paul T, Thank you for your help and input. Not just on this post, but on all the posts I read and learned from. I will log back in and give results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Jim Posted February 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 Thank you for your appreciation for what it's like to put in hours of your time to help on a forum. Yes, we do want very much to hear about how things work out. The thing about the relays I suggested that you look at, AND the instrument panel, is that they control other things either directly or through the car's network that can be the battery drain. Once you are sure that it's the instrument panel, we look at things that it can turn on and start pulling *those* fuses. I don't see the instrument panel itself drawing that much power; it's probably something like the dimmed interior indicator lights like the bulbs in the steering wheel buttons, the radio background lighting, and such. -- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data -- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alwayslearning Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 I have pulled every relay under the hood and behind the back seat and nothing changes. I have pulled every fuse and only the body 3 and comfort fuse will drop the amps. There are three connections to the cluster. The one that actually drops the amps is the first conection which I think controls the buttons on the left. I was going to put the old cluster in today and see if that would make a difference. But I am up for suggestions. Update: I left the wire harness connected to the cluster that is controlled by the comfort fuse and disconnected the other 2. After waiting 20 minutes the amp draw was still 1.9A. Again I disconnected the harness from the cluster that comes from the comfort fuse and after waiting about 15-20 minutes my amp draw was down to 29mA. I decided to remove the cluster and reinstall the original cluster. Since the original wasn't showing the fuel, speed, and etc. I went ahead and disassembled both of them and put the speedometer board from the new cluster in the old cluster. I then reinstalled the old cluster and waited about 20 minutes and checked the amps. The amp reading now is 19mA. I tested it 3 times with same results. I also double checked to make sure everything was connected. Now I have a new problem (but I already thought I might run into this), the security is not reading correctly. Not a big deal, I have a guy who can program it for me with a Tech II. Just want to let all of you know that this is the first Cadillac I have ever worked on and it is also the first time I have ever attempted to track down a power drain. I could not have done this without the help of all of you! Like I said before, I read for several hours on this forum so I could learn how to complete this task. Again Thank You! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alwayslearning Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 I do have this post attached to my e-mail so if you have any questions or comments then just post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alwayslearning Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 Update: After replacing the cluster my friend who thought he could program the new cluster was wrong. He did not have a tech 2, What I did was call a lock smith who had a VAT key (a little plastic rectangle with all 16 VAT settings and a place to install a blank key). He came to my house and cut a key to match my key and cut the resister out. Inserted the key into the VAT key and started testing. Once he found the correct setting he made a new key (only charged $65) and when I tried to start the car it would crank but would not start and then read anti theft problem. So I paid the man and gave up for the day. I thought about this all night and the only thing that came to mind was to try and program the new key to the cluster again. The next morning I went out and made sure the battery had a full charge. Then I did the following: Turned key and cranked engine for 1 second and then let key fall back to run position for 11 minutes. Then turned key to off position for 5 seconds. Then turned key and cranked engine for 1 second and then let key fall back to run position for 11 minutes. Then turned key to off position for 5 seconds. Then turned key and cranked engine for 1 second and then let key fall back to run position for 11 minutes. Then turned key to off position for 5 seconds.Then turned key to crank engine and held to actually start the engine and it worked! So after several days of testing and reading and trouble shooting I finally have the car fixed. I used the extra cluster that came with the car and parts off the cluster that was in the car. I had to buy an Amp meter (craftsman for $54.99, they have cheaper but I wanted that one) and I paid the lock smith $65. All and all I feel pretty good about the cost. I know I saved her a lot of money and most important she is happy. I learned a lot and hopefully some future readers can get some useful information and save themselves some time and money. You can thank Cadillac Jim for posting this to the forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Jim Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 Glad you got it fixed... Good job... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 And you purchased a tool (the ammeter) and are still money ahead! Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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