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dog bone for late model northstar DeVilles


skyman

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To the best of anyones knowledge has anyone ever engineered or adapted a dogbone strut from older model Cads to a later model DeVille with the Northstar to help take the load off the lower front motor mount that frequently fails? It appears that the last Devilles with the northstar engine to have the dogbone struts on the engine are thr 1999 models

Edited by skyman
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It can be done using some 2000-2002 Eldorado parts. They had the newer Northstar but used the older engine mount design (with dog bones).

Picture shows 2001 Deville with dog bones.

That said, I think the NS was changed again in 2004. I bet the holes are still there on the newer NS.

post-2-0-56203800-1382380053_thumb.jpg

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This doesn't apply to the 2005 model year in question on this Topic, but, for reference by others, the 1998-1999 Sevilles and Devilles did not have the dog bones but I have heard that the mounts are there. Logan?

CTS-V_LateralGs_6-2018_tiny.jpg
-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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I did a search on Devilles up to 2000. Devilles 1999 and below had wishbones. I'm guessing the best way to add them is to find a 99 Deville ...examine it and see just how they are hooked on...then find a parts car in a junk yard or what ever or perhaps even on a parts web site then add them to an existing 2005 Deville"mine" Just went out and popped the hood on mine and I could see, the holes in the sides of the block for the wishbones. So just attaching the brackets to the crossbar in front of the radiator and then bolting them on and that would be it.

Edited by skyman
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I do believe that 1998-1999 Sevilles did *not* have dogbones, although the bolt holes are there. Anyone who has one?

CTS-V_LateralGs_6-2018_tiny.jpg
-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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The 1998-2004 Seville, and the 2000-2005 Deville did not use dog bones.

The Eldo (based on the older '92-97 chassis) used dog bones up thru 2002 (end of Eldo production).

The NS was changed in 2000 and again in 2004.

On the Deville and Seville. The holes are all there for the brackets. It should be noted the Eldo used a different alternator. Part of that was to accomodate one bolt on the passenger side engine bracket.

I bet all the holes are still there and machined on the 2004 NS.

2006 Deville used a completley different dog bone style.

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Just did some more research on this and found these dogbones torque mounts are available in just about any auto parts store or online parts warehouse. Looks like just a matter of hooking the attach brackets to the crossmember and moving some hoses wiring out of the way. Worth looking into I think.

Would eliminate that vibration,jiggly problem at higher speeds on the devilles when that lower center motor mount gives out.

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I never knew that GM removed the Dogbones for the NS mounting. I can imagine the added stress placed on the lower mounts without this extra support. I wonder if this decision to drop came from either an overzealous mount engineer, marketing, or as a cost saving measure from above. It's awsome that it's possible to add this extra support with junkyard parts or aftermarket.

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I noticed the delete also. 2 things I never understood was the dogbone removal and the strut stabilizer bar. I remember My Cutlass supreme used to go though dogbones like a set a year but then I switched to poly bushings and forgot about them. I see the torque on the newer engines and it blows me away that they did away with the dogbones. I frequently see the front and trans mount blown, probably due to such torque

GM FAN FOREVER

Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile

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Important to note also that on the 2008 DTS the thrust mount was added that transfers that engine torque to the lower frame area on the right side of the engine. It is probably an improvement over using the rad support for that job, but no doubt will not work in many of the older models.

Never underestimate the amount of a persons greed.

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Bring up a question in my mind: if that lower front engine mount is a common failure on the Northstar (I have a '98 deVille), it is a DIY repair,

or will I have to take it to the dealer?

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I have never done the job myself, but from what I read here from those that have, it CAN be done, BUT. It's a major pia, involving removing the oil filter adapter (if I remember correctly) and jacking up the front of the engine, which means loosening a few other mounts. Even then it is TIGHT to gain access.

I always suspected that my '99 STS had issues with that front mount, but it really never hampered the driveability or ride too much. It just seemed like the engine was "jumpy" on occasion.

Never underestimate the amount of a persons greed.

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I purchased this lower mount today and also purchased the rectangular rear tran mount with the 2 studs..I figured that with the marginal front strut the rear mount has had extra flexing around so I'm going to do both this Thursday. Not something I would attempt unless I had a lift and all the equipment and necessary tools.plus previous experience. I would avoid dealers unless you have tons of money. I priced the job at a local Cad dealer just for the front mount and it was almost $1000. They wanted almost $300 just for the part. I paid $103 minus 10% "military discount" for the mount at an auto parts store. My mechanic charges me $80 an hour and the dealer charges $135 an hour...and just because it's a Caddy dealer, doesn't mean that the work quality will be any better that a good independant mechanic. I'll post the results after I get the job finished.

Oh and does anyone know the proper torques for the mounts? Just want to compare with my mechanic

Edited by skyman
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If you keep the dog bones in good shape, the front motor support will go a long way. If your dog bones get loose and you let them go, the front motor support will not be far behind.

CTS-V_LateralGs_6-2018_tiny.jpg
-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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the front lower is a PITA. the rest are cake. when I did my 96 I loosened the mounts, jacked the enigne a little bit, removed the cooling fans, removed the bracket that the mount is attached to. (bracket wont come out completely but will move out of the way) then you can swear and pull the mount out. It took me a few hours total but it was also pretty cold the day I did them. All 5 took me about 3.5 hours

GM FAN FOREVER

Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile

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Bring up a question in my mind: if that lower front engine mount is a common failure on the Northstar (I have a '98 deVille), it is a DIY repair,

or will I have to take it to the dealer?

Yes but your 1998 Deville has the dogbone supports which make the mount last much longer vs. one that doesn't have the dogbones.

the front lower is a PITA. the rest are cake. when I did my 96 I loosened the mounts, jacked the enigne a little bit, removed the cooling fans, removed the bracket that the mount is attached to. (bracket wont come out completely but will move out of the way) then you can swear and pull the mount out. It took me a few hours total but it was also pretty cold the day I did them. All 5 took me about 3.5 hours

The front mount is much easier to R&R if the brace that connects it to the top of the engine is removed. With the brace loosened, there will be enough slop to clear the studs on the mount.

Kevin
'93 Fleetwood Brougham
'05 Deville
'04 Deville
2013 Silverado Z71

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Bring up a question in my mind: if that lower front engine mount is a common failure on the Northstar (I have a '98 deVille), it is a DIY repair,

or will I have to take it to the dealer?

Yes but your 1998 Deville has the dogbone supports which make the mount last much longer vs. one that doesn't have the dogbones.

the front lower is a PITA. the rest are cake. when I did my 96 I loosened the mounts, jacked the enigne a little bit, removed the cooling fans, removed the bracket that the mount is attached to. (bracket wont come out completely but will move out of the way) then you can swear and pull the mount out. It took me a few hours total but it was also pretty cold the day I did them. All 5 took me about 3.5 hours

The front mount is much easier to R&R if the brace that connects it to the top of the engine is removed. With the brace loosened, there will be enough slop to clear the studs on the mount.

that is what I believe I was talking about,. the bracket that the mount mounts to. Is that the one you speak of?

GM FAN FOREVER

Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile

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Bring up a question in my mind: if that lower front engine mount is a common failure on the Northstar (I have a '98 deVille), it is a DIY repair,

or will I have to take it to the dealer?

Yes but your 1998 Deville has the dogbone supports which make the mount last much longer vs. one that doesn't have the dogbones.

the front lower is a PITA. the rest are cake. when I did my 96 I loosened the mounts, jacked the enigne a little bit, removed the cooling fans, removed the bracket that the mount is attached to. (bracket wont come out completely but will move out of the way) then you can swear and pull the mount out. It took me a few hours total but it was also pretty cold the day I did them. All 5 took me about 3.5 hours

The front mount is much easier to R&R if the brace that connects it to the top of the engine is removed. With the brace loosened, there will be enough slop to clear the studs on the mount.

that is what I believe I was talking about,. the bracket that the mount mounts to. Is that the one you speak of?

Yes - the bracket comes up to almost the front head. It is much easier to change the mount with that loose.

Kevin
'93 Fleetwood Brougham
'05 Deville
'04 Deville
2013 Silverado Z71

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