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1996 Deville (dead horse) ABS/Traction control lights


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I purchased a 1996 DeVille last week. It is in good condition with 114XXX miles. The first time I jumped in it and turned the key the dash light up like a christmas tree but still had that classic sedan ride and Northstar crammed underneath the hood ( and the seller accepted the really low number I threw out) so I bought it.

Thanks to these forums and all the helpful info I was able to start some troubleshooting as I would like to have first gear and pass an inspection.

Codes that I have:

PC0741- TCC System Stuck Off "current"

PC1571-Traction Control Torque Request Circuit

PC1602 -Knock Sensor (KS) Module Performance

PC1644 -Traction Control Delivered Torque Output Circuit

PZ2042 -Loss of serial communications - ABS/TCS

IP2710 -PASSKey Open/Shorted Pellet

Ive read all about the TCC solenoid being stuck off, that doesn't bother me. Its the ABS/TCS i want to figure out.

Ive spent hours reading "posts" on people experiencing these same sets of codes related to the ABS/TCS and, sadly, most just die out with no real definitive solution or jabber about differences between OBD 1 and 2. However, there were a few stories of success and legitimate troubleshooting that led them there. Some as simple as a blown fuse and others replacing an ignition cylinder ( along with no turn signals ) which i really thought may be the case for me.

I have over the course of the past few days.---

checked all fuses under the hood (including the MAXI-FUSE) with a multimeter and verified voltage at both sides of the fuse approx. 13.6 while engine running

I checked the fuse in the trunk (didn't verify voltage ) that is labeled PZM and first swapped with another and then removed and started car looking for a change in codes. Weird thing is the radio didn't work, thought that I had pulled the wrong fuse but not the case.

When I bought the car the blinkers were fast, replace blinker and it went to a normal blink speed.

removed the EBTCM connecter. It was surprisingly clean. I checked voltage at three locations (PINS 2, 3, 4) with an engine ground then PINS 1, 15. All checked good approx. 13.6 while engine running

Checked continuity between PIN 29 EBTCM and PIN 8 on the ODB port under the dash.

Somebody help me. I would love to fix this, drive legally, and feel first gear. Thanks all for any suggestions.

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The first thing I would do is reset the codes and see what comes back. There so many that it looks like it might have had a low battery recently that went below 9 Volts when starting up, or perhaps a power wash under the car or under the hood set a lot of codes. The only one that is CURRENT is the P0741. The rest may be "car wash" codes or caused by low voltage.

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-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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Jim,

I have reset the codes a dozen codes over the past week. These are the ones that return.

Current PC0741- TCC System Stuck Off

Current PC1571-Traction Control Torque Request Circuit

History PC1602 -Knock Sensor (KS) Module Performance

Current PC1644 -Traction Control Delivered Torque Output Circuit

Current PZ2042 -Loss of serial communications - ABS/TCS

History IP2710 -PASSKey Open/Shorted Pellet

I had one for the AC- low refrigerant pressure, but I was able to clear it, then get the compressor on and charge. Still blowing cold.

At one point I got a few for the TC 007X but I didn't record them. Thinking about it was the first time I found the EBTCM connecter and spent 20 min trying to figure out how to get it back on.

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Check the BRAKE 50 Amp maxifuse and the 10 Amp BRAKE fuse. But it sounds like it could be the EBTCM connector.

The EBTCM has two grounds, one through the wiring harness and one directly from the rear of the ABS pump motor. Both of them go to the engine but these are commonly stripped on older cars and the wiring harness re-grounded on the chassis. If either of these grounds is bad or missing it would explain your problems with the TC/ABS.

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-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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What I did ( yesterday ) was check power from PIN 1, 15 (grounds) to PINS 2,3,4 on the EBTCM connecter and all read the same 13.x. This morning I did buy contact cleaner and di-electric grease and cleaned (wire brush) all maxi-fuses, the terminals on the battery, and the EBTCM. No change.

I did not check the grounds you mentioned though. I'll see if I can figure out where they are at and clean them up too. Im starting to think the EBTCM is faulty.

On a separate note, I did notice that there are two indicator lights above the 3rd light. Pass side was not lit. I replaced both the bulbs on that side with no change and the bulbs looked good, changed anyways . I then realized that both the 3rd light bulbs were out, replaced, working. I then noticed that one of the bulbs on the drivers side was out. replaced, working. The indicator light is still dim and the pass side out side is still dim (just enough to notice), but all 6 brake bulbs are lit. ?

Edited by 1996caddydeville
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I would check behind the back seat to make sure no one messed with the wiring to the components. - I'm not sure what the ABS/TC module looks like, but check all the purple wires for any breakage. - or anything that looks tampered with.

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Well, after looking for the grounds and cleaning them, I took a ride to the junk yard. The first EBTCM I removed came out with out a fight, only to discover that the ground pin (PIN 1) had been pretty hot. I found about another dozen caddy's with the EBTCM but I soon realized that all of them were stuck. That center stud broke a couple torx bits. I went to the parking lot to see if I could remove mine and it was tough. I stripped one of the 4 torx bolts, but a checked the big stud first. Took a four hour tough job and 27 dollar gamble but it paid off. After a few sec the ABS cleared and it took a few min for the TCS to clear but it did. Put new (used) tires on it. First gear is nice.

Now how do I get the PC0741 off? Only current code.

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That's interesting. New member has fried bcm and obviously knows something about cars/electrical issues. Not that a caddy bcm is different than any other GM bcm. Checks this/that and decides bcm is bad. New bcm fixes issue. Might never hear from him again. If he flips caddy that is.

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That's interesting. New member has fried bcm and obviously knows something about cars/electrical issues. Not that a caddy bcm is different than any other GM bcm. Checks this/that and decides bcm is bad. New bcm fixes issue. Might never hear from him again. If he flips caddy that is.

It wasn't a BCM... it was the ETCBM....

Not the same thing at all...

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The BCM/PZM, as you know, is the main computer for the suspension and body, usually behind the back seat. It lives on the network and operates small external relays by grounding their coils, each typically once or twice each time the car is driven. It's in a location that does not see weather or road debris or extremes in temperature. I've rarely heard of a bad one, and those have been caused by plugging or un-plugging it in with the key on, back-probing the wiring harness and popping an input or relay driver, or the car has been subjected to reverse-cable jump-start or some such.

The EBTCM is integrated with the brake manifold and pump assembly, the BPMV, which is where all the brake lines from the master cylinder and all the wheels go. It has its own two small relays (one if ESC is not present) and operates the brake manifold, which, on the 1990's FWD Cadillacs, consists of twelve solenoids and a pump motor, plus twelve solenoid-operated valves. The pump and solenoids are operated in various patterns every time ABS, TC, or ESC are invoked, even for a few milliseconds. All of the solenoids are high-current, as is the pump motor. It's located low on the driver's side and exposed to weather and temperature extremes, if all the undercar shields aren't in place in the radiator support area, exposed to splash and road debris. They do expire. Usually but not always, they can be repaired by replacing the on-board relays.

The 2000 and later models move the solenoid coils to the EBTCM from the BPMV and the coils fit over the twelve enclosed solenoid plungers when the ETTCM is mounted on the BPMV. Also, the pump motor ground is through the EBTCM and not through a separate ground as in the earlier models. All the solenoids and the pump motor are operated by switched grounds inside the EBTCM. The EBTCM/BPMV assembly is in about the same location but a little higher and better protected from splash than in older models. In the RWD models such as the CTS-V, it's on the passenger side, behind the right fender liner and below the washer fluid container, also far better protected from splash and road debris. They should have a longer life than the older design that is more exposed to splash and road debris.

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-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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Yep, u got me. I knew bcm was different then ebtcm but didn't feel like typing ebtcm. Point was, OP replaced unit and fixed issue and is gone.

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I think that is probably one of the reasons that GM uses PZM (platform zone module) for the body control module instead of BCM. They call the same module CCM (central control computer) on the Fleetwood well into the 1990s, another acronym clash, which actually resulted in an error in a post here just a week or two ago from someone who quite well knew better, once he took the time to read the whole thread.

Two-letter and three-letter acronyms are a slippery slope. Since so many ambiguities are possible (CRT: cathode ray tube, Canadian Railway Troops, C RunTime library, etc.), I think it's best that any short acronym be treated as ambiguous, no matter how obvious one may seem at first glance.

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-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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  • 1 year later...

sorry to break unfortunate news but the p0741 is telling you the torque convertor is bad.

I just sold my 96 Deville because of the same. I had over 200k on it though. I expected it.

The seals leak and the fluid pushed into the transmission and eventually burns out the convertor.

If you had another code with it I would say check the TCC solenoid but just the one code says torque convertor.

Car will still ride nice and drive good but torque convertor will not lock up causing SES light to come on

Clear way to confirm. hold steady speed at 40-50mph then accelerate. Should kick it every time.

Also when the torque convertor is not working it will rev about 250-400 rpm higher when driving.

Glad you figured out the abs problem. Best of luck to you

GM FAN FOREVER

Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile

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I'm sorry... I didn't get that...

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-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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did it show up blank on your screen to? i was asking about the soleniods you were refering to i got abs codes for my back weel speep sensors and my front left and right soleniod but i or anny shop/dealership cant seem to see what soleniod they are refering to someone said the code could just mean weel speed sensor, also i was going to clean all of them and try to reset code, but will the abs reset auto or maual? and are the speed sensors adjustable on a 1990 cadillac fleetwood?

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To start a new topic, Above, just above the topic title, click on "General Cadillac Fourums" to bring up the main general forums page, then scroll down about a page click the big black "Start New Topic" button along the right margin.

I don't know what solenoids you mean, either. Please post the codes themselves and, with the year and model, we can tell.

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-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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P052 (E052) PCM Memory Reset
P042 (E042) Left Oxygen Sensor Signal Lean

T022 RF Wheel Speed Sensor Frequency Error

P024 (E024) Vehicle Speed Sensor signal to TCC

I034 Loss of Powertrain Control Module Data
R034 Dual Pole Arming Sensor Ignition Feed Open

P034 (E034) MAP Sensor Signal Out of Range

T077 PCM - Serial Data Link Error

S077 Right Rear Accelerometer Overcurrent

The Check Engine light is probably from the E042. I don't have T034. So, you have a vacuum leak. The rest of the codes seem scattered and don't seem to indicate a problem. I would look for the vacuum leak. Beyond that, I would reset the codes and see what comes back.

Note the letter before each code. If there is no letter, it's a manufacturer code which is a different list.

Someone else with more experience with the 1990 model year codes may chip in to help out too.

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-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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I misspoke when i said 42, i meant to say 49. also i am getting different code meanings from what you said to my book. are we talking about the Teves Mark ll (2) system. i have also cleared the codes and so far my engine light did not come on. when i get home i am going to see if there are anny codes that still show. i have tried to take out and inspect/ clean my wheel speed sensors for my front tires. but would not budge no matter what i did?? tried to clean put wheels back on still get abs codes

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I did a web search on 1990 OBD I codes and my code list apparently does apply for the 1990 model year. What I have is

P049 (E049) Air Injection Reaction (AIR) System Fault
P052 (E052) PCM Memory Reset

The only ABS/TCS codes you report that are in my list are

T022 RF Wheel Speed Sensor Frequency Error

T077 PCM - Serial Data Link Error

The E052 just means that the battery has been disconnected recently. If the Check Engine light went out, whatever fault that caused it has not occurred again since you reset the codes. Keep your current list and if the Check Engine linght comes on again, run the codes and the new one is what caused it to turn on.

In the meantime you can check the connections to the right front wheel speed sensor, check its resistance, and if it checks bad then look into changing it

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-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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cool i will check it with my volt meeter gotta look up best way to go about thow because it fwd and it will be difficult to spin wheel and probe. on another note my abs went out on the way to work yesterday but my anti-lock light is still on, i thought they were related? i could not remove the two front sensors so i clean the best i could. this is strange i dont think i fixed it but ill run a test and see if there proper current.

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You don't need to turn the wheel to check the wheel sensor. It's a magnetic pickup. It should have a fixed resistance across the terminals, and it should not be shorted to ground. A more likely place for problems is the connector, so make sure that is clean and the terminals are not pushed back into the casing.

The ABS and TC are related and use most of the same sensors. They are operated out of the same module, the EBTCM, which is clamped on the ABS/TC manifold and pump assembly. All brake lines go to the manifold.

The sensors involved are the wheel speed sensors, the wheel height sensors, and others such as the throttle position, steering wheel position, and others. Someone with a 1990 model year FSM can give you the details.

CTS-V_LateralGs_6-2018_tiny.jpg
-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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