Eldorado ETC Ride Compliance

[Rich]

Purchased my Eldorado new back in December of 1996 (1997 model year). Has been my daily driver since over roads in Westchester County, NY year round. I imagine the rubber components under the car must have deteriorated over the years affecting the ride quality over poorly paved roads. I'm running factory spec size Michelin Pilot Sport A/S Plus tires on original OEM wheels. The ride is still well damped, no sway in turns and quick recovery after road surface impacts. Outside of new struts for the CVRSS, how can I most cost effectively improve the ride compliance of my 1997 Cadillac Eldorado ETC (130,000 miles)? Stabilizer links and stabilizer bar bushings were replaced approximately 3,000 miles ago to eliminate the "loose lumber" sound in the front end and improve the overall front end response. I want my Cadillac ride back but cost is an issue. Looking for the most "bang for the buck".

[Cadillac Jim]

I re-did the wear components of my 1997 Eldorado (which I sold last month) last year. The exposed surfaces of some "rubber" components showed some cracking, specifically the bushings for the rear wishbones (some call them knuckles) but the rear suspension is tight as a tick. I did replace the struts and shocks, which is not exactly what you are looking for when you say "bang for the buck." I got the electronic suspension shocks and struts, not wanting to drive a car with the RSS disabled and the Stabilitrak, ABS and TC not what the computer is programmed for, unlike the vast majority of owners - but, like you, I bought the car new and kept it in like-new condition. I got AC/Delco at closeout prices but you can match or beat my price with OEM quality and function Monroes.

I did replace my strut bearings, although I had no complaints or popping/creaking/whatever, and any other "rubber" components that were at hand in the job. Note that "rubber" components like bushings and hoses don't deteriorate like they did on older cars because they are neoprene, not rubber, including on our 1997 model Cadillacs.

You did good to replace your front stabilizer links. I did that too and the were gone. I did the rear stabilizer links too although they were still good. I did all four stabilizer bushings and yes, the old ones had taken a set and were hard. The new ones may be more compliant but they are compressed so much by the clamps that there can't be much compliance there. You already did the links. But, for "bang for the buck" I would perhaps try rear stabilizer links.

You say you "want your Cadillac ride back." What is your compliant about the ride?

[rockfangd]

I definately would check the rear knuckle bushings if they are original. Cost is around 40.00 a side and not too bad to do

[Rich]

My issue with the ride is that over broken pavement, there seems to be a harshness present that I don't notice in other cars in my family, such as my wife's 2006 STS (18" low profile tires with MRC), my son's 2011 Malibu, my father's 2013 Cadillac ATS. Whatever degradation that might be present in my Eldorado is difficult for me to determine as the change would have been gradual over the past 16 plus years. Perhaps I'm chasing a phantom, hard to tell. The car rides well, even over horrible roads, but my assumption is that it must have been better when new considering that most soft components under the car are original. I must confess that I'm probably over analysing this and imagining the harshness I'm describing. I know my unibody car won't glide over broken pavement like a body on frame 1976 Sedan deVille, but what I'm trying to describe as "ride compliance" is a certain isolation over harsh pavement that I feel might be missing. Perhaps it was never there. And thanks for the info on urethane vs. rubber on my '97. I wasn't aware of that. For what it's worth, no passenger has ever complained or commented to me that the ride was anything other than comfortable. Must be me. Congratulations on your CTS-V Jim. Sorry to hear you got rid of your Eldorado though.

[KHE]

I would say what you're noticing is the gradual degradation of the shocks and struts. Big money to replace with electronic versions - even aftermarket Monroes. You can get Monroes that are passive and the rears still work with the leveling system and Monroe also makes passive struts for the front - you'd just need to use the existing harness off the removes shocks and struts to make cheater cords to supress the service ride control message.

My advice is if the car is not bouncing all over the place like Uncle Buck's Grand Marquis, I'd leave the shocks and struts alone.

Have you checked the knuckle bushings at the rear? Those are known to cause all kinds of handling problems. With the car parked, grab the rear tires at the 12:00 position and rock them in and out. If there is any movement, the knuckle bushings are shot. Replacing those is not a hard job and if they're bad, the improvement in handling is amazing.

[Rich]

Thanks for all the tips folks. I'm aware of the Monroe versions of the OEM AC Delco units and will go that route when the time comes. I would never go the passive route as the CVRSS is one of the main reasons I opted for the ETC in the first place. The car handles great with precise control and quick recovery, so I don't think the struts are bad, though they obviously have some wear by now. I think the rear knuckle bushings are OK too as I did the rocking test not too long ago. No movement that I can detect. The car handles great, no issues except for my perceived harshness. After this discussion, I've come to the conclusion that it must be me.

[KHE]

I'd check the knuckle bushings again. The knuckle bushings on my 1997 STS were so bad around 145,000 miles, the car was handling very poorly - it had a slushy feel and would bump steer when hitting rough roads on corners. I replaced the bushings and the car was like new again.

[KevinW]

The best "bang for the buck" is to reduce the tire pressures! You might venture slightly lower than recommended pressures at the rear if you never approach the GVWR. The next thing would be to install comfort-oriented tires, such as the Goodyear Assurance ComforTred, or even snow tires; I was amazed at the improvement in ride quality of a 1996 Concours after mounting a set of old Blizzaks.

[joeb]

What is build date on door sticker? 11/06 or similar?

[Texas Jim]

Tire pressure and actual TIRES can make a big difference in perceived harshness.

My car is the same way...

It is a 2006 DTS with the MRC suspension.

I normally run 35 psi in the front tires and 33 in the rear tires.

That makes the ride fairly harsh on rough city streets but it handles great with that tire pressure.

If I lower it to 31 in the front and 30 in the rear... some of the harshness goes away but the handling is not quite as CRISP as when running the higher pressure.

I have Yokohama Advan S4 tires on it now.... 245x50x18

They are a little bit softer and have a little bit better ride compliance than the OEM Bridgestones.

[Rich]

I took delivery on 12/2/1996, so the build date is likely November of 1996 or a bit earlier. Perhaps I'll lower the tire pressure a bit as I typically run 32 or 33 PSI all around. I'll also look into some of the other tips. The tires are Z rated as were the tires installed at the factory for delivery. I paid extra, $250 or so I believe, for the Z rated tires as the cars were delivered without speed governors (in the form of a fuel cut-off) from the factory when Z rated rubber was specified. I believe the high speed tires might also contribute to some additional harshness due to stiffer sidewalls. Through 1995, the STS and ETC, as well as the Concours I believe, were delivered with Z rated tires as standard. But due to customer complaints of a stiff ride, Z rated tires were made optional for 1997 MY, necessitating the factory installed governor to avoid any liability issues.

[Texas Jim]

My car came with "H" rated Bridgestone tires which are rated up to 130 mph.

My speed limiter was set at 123 mph.

The sidewalls on the Bridgestones were super stiff which contributed to the stiff / hard ride.

It now has "V" rated Yokohama's, which are rated up to 149 mph, but the sidewalls are a little bit softer and more compliant which helps it ride a little better.

Speed limiter is now set at 190, which effectively means there is no limiter.

[Cadillac Jim]

I once had a set of tires that gave my 1997 ETC a harsh ride, and they wore like iron and did not get hard after four years. But they handled and gripped quite well and were four-season tires do I drove them for five years. The next set of tires gave me back the ride. Those tires did take their toll on the stabilizer links, though.

[rockfangd]

tires make a huge difference sometimes. thats why I like the softer tires. The real firm ones tend to ride hard

[Cadillac Jim]

Your signature says that your Eldorado is an ETC. The ETC/STS come with a tighter suspension for better handling and braking, and better stability at the guaranteed maximum speed of 150 mph. That's one of the key reasons that I bought my 1997 ETC. So, I always tried to put high-performance tires on my car to keep the feel, handling and braking that my car was designed to provide.

Some would rather have smoothness and quietness and don't care much about the details of feel and handling; that is the owner's choice. My first set of replacement tires was put on by the dealer, and they used Deville tires because they were so much less expensive than the Goodyear RS-A tires that came on the ETC and STS. They were very quiet and rode exceptionally well, but the feel was mushy and the handling was too, and I left them at a tire dealer after about 50 miles, where I put on a set of Michelins. They were selected by the tire dealer because I was in too much of a rush to go home and look at my notes and such, and they were not as good as the Goodyear RS-A OEM tires. Never let a tire dealer pick your tires because essentially all of them see "Cadillac" first and ETC/STS not at all.

The Goodyear RS-A tires for your car are still available. It's really hard to beat them and you can order tires specifically designed for your car if you like, and the ones that dealers stock can't be far different from the OEM tires. And, the price is better than the imports, because they are V-rated -the RS-A was H-rated in 1997. Even if you have the governor at 125 mph taken off (Z-rated car), the V-rated tires are all you need and they will wear longer than the same tire design with a compound certified for W or Z rating. The performance of the RS-A tires is very close to the best you can get for any all-season tire in your size, regardless of price, and is better than that of some tires that cost several times as much and don't wear as long.

So, if you want ultra high performance with the OEM ride at a very good price, you can't go wrong with the OEM tires, which are still available.

I looked on the Goodyear page for the 1997 ETC:

http://www.goodyear.com/en-US/tires/search/1997_Cadillac_Eldorado_ETC

They list lots of options including the OEM RS-A, which is called "All-season, high-performance traction." They offer tires designed to emphasize economy, wet surface traction, ride, general performance, "popular OEM", and winter traction without chains. All of them seem to be V rated, including the RS-A.

My other favorite makes are Michelin and Bridgestone. Choices there are just as varied and complex.

[Rich]

My ETC came with Goodyear Eagle GA tires (Z-Rated) from the factory. These were the optional tires. At around 35K miles, I replaced all four with another set of these OEM tires which lasted about another 35K miles or so. I wasn't really happy with the wear, so when purchasing the third set of tires for the Eldorado, after researching on tirerack.com, I decided to opt for a set of Michelin Pilot Sport A/S (also Z-Rated, or perhaps W). Those tires lasted for almost 50K miles, with no increased harshness over the OEM Goodyears and far better snow traction. I found them to be quieter too, and perhaps more surefooted in the rain. I'm now on my second set of Michelin Pilot Sport A/S, now known as A/S Plus. I really don't feel that these tires contribute any additional harshness in comparison to the OEM Goodyears as I think I would have noticed with the first swap at 70 or 75K miles. My issue is very likely related to the touring suspension. I like the high speed stability my car provides and need to stop whining about the slight reduction in ride compliance.

[Cadillac Jim]

Check the motor supports and dog bones.

[Rich]

Will do. Thanks to all.

[99EldoETC]

Your signature says that your Eldorado is an ETC. The ETC/STS come with a tighter suspension for better handling and braking, and better stability at the guaranteed maximum speed of 150 mph. That's one of the key reasons that I bought my 1997 ETC. So, I always tried to put high-performance tires on my car to keep the feel, handling and braking that my car was designed to provide.

Some would rather have smoothness and quietness and don't care much about the details of feel and handling; that is the owner's choice. My first set of replacement tires was put on by the dealer, and they used Deville tires because they were so much less expensive than the Goodyear RS-A tires that came on the ETC and STS. They were very quiet and rode exceptionally well, but the feel was mushy and the handling was too, and I left them at a tire dealer after about 50 miles, where I put on a set of Michelins. They were selected by the tire dealer because I was in too much of a rush to go home and look at my notes and such, and they were not as good as the Goodyear RS-A OEM tires. Never let a tire dealer pick your tires because essentially all of them see "Cadillac" first and ETC/STS not at all.

The Goodyear RS-A tires for your car are still available. It's really hard to beat them and you can order tires specifically designed for your car if you like, and the ones that dealers stock can't be far different from the OEM tires. And, the price is better than the imports, because they are V-rated -the RS-A was H-rated in 1997. Even if you have the governor at 125 mph taken off (Z-rated car), the V-rated tires are all you need and they will wear longer than the same tire design with a compound certified for W or Z rating. The performance of the RS-A tires is very close to the best you can get for any all-season tire in your size, regardless of price, and is better than that of some tires that cost several times as much and don't wear as long.

So, if you want ultra high performance with the OEM ride at a very good price, you can't go wrong with the OEM tires, which are still available.

I looked on the Goodyear page for the 1997 ETC:

http://www.goodyear.com/en-US/tires/search/1997_Cadillac_Eldorado_ETC

They list lots of options including the OEM RS-A, which is called "All-season, high-performance traction." They offer tires designed to emphasize economy, wet surface traction, ride, general performance, "popular OEM", and winter traction without chains. All of them seem to be V rated, including the RS-A.

My other favorite makes are Michelin and Bridgestone. Choices there are just as varied and complex.

Hi - do you know if the Goodyear RS-A Tire was the OEM Tire for the '99 ETC?

I've been doing some research, looking for a good tire for my Caddy and have kept coming back to the RS-A, not knowing that it was the OEM Tire (until I discovered this thread) for some models such as the '97ETC.

Also is the RS-A Police model the same tire as the RS-A?

Thanks for any advice you and anyone else cares to share.

[Cadillac Jim]

The 1999 ETC uses the same tire size and the specification is ultra-high performance all-season, and the Goodyear RS-A meets that specification. But I ran the tire selection guide on The Tire Rack's web site and restricted the make to Goodyear and got two lines of RS-A tires in that size with different wear ratings and prices. I ran it again without restriction on make of tire and got tires with far better wear ratings and distinctly higher user ratings.

So, I would say that the police radials are a special design for police use and even though they say RS-A on the sidewall there is some difference in the tire (V rating, W rating, whatever) that differs from the H rated tire on the STS (except the rare Z-rated cars). And, I failed to turn up a tire labeled "OEM Tire" so the exact same tire is no longer available.

So, after that experience, I take back my previous advice to just get RS-A's and suggest that you use the tire selection wizard on the web site for The Tire Rack. You can pick an installer, call ahead, order the tires and ask that they be shipped to your installer, and have them balanced and mounted locally. I've done that a time or two and I'm always happy with The Tire Rack.

[99EldoETC]

Thanks. I had noticed that the RS-A had received some poor reviews ... something about sidewall blowouts seemed to be a recurring complaint.

On the tirerack.com site the General Altimax HP has caught my eye. They are on closeout though, so might not get to pick up a set.

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=General&tireModel=Altimax+HP&partnum=26VR6AMAXHP&i1_Qty=4&autoMake=Cadillac&autoModel=Eldorado%20Touring%20Cpe&autoYear=1999&autoModClar=&vehicleSearch=true

Thanks again for your response.

[Cadillac Jim]

General is a good brand. I've never run them on my car and I don't associate them with high-performance tires but they've been around a very long time and are a standby for quality tires. I would look at the reviews and read them for viewpoints like yours. The price is right, the wear rating is very good, and the tire is a... WHOOPS: Grand Touring all-season. That's not a high-performance all season like the tires that came on your STS.

Before you buy, go to the main page for tires:

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/index.jsp

In the box "Select a make" select Cadillac. Another window will appear, "Select a year" and select 1999. Then, a "Select a model" window will appear and you select "Eldorado Touring Cpe." This will bring you to a window where you can click on "Tire Selection Guide." Click on that, click the check button for YES on the next screen if you are ever going to drive on snow or ice, select "No, I do not use or plan to use dedicated winter / snow tires." on the next screen, then rank 1-2-3 handling, comfort and noise, and wear on the next screen. I did 1, 3, 2 and didn't restrict to any brand and got a list topped by Yokohama Advan S.4 ultra high performance all-season with a UTQG rating of 400, which is quite good, for $117 per tire. There's a Firestone Firehawk Wide Oval A S "High performance all season" (note without the "Ultra") for $79 per tire at H speed rating, if you are looking for price and will give up a little performance.

Try the tire selector yourself, putting in your own selection of handling, comfort and noise, and wear ranking, and see what comes up.

The last set of tires that I bought for my 1997 ETC, in late 2012, were Michelin Pilot Sport A/S Plus, and they were excellent. I didn't see them in the list I just brought up for your car, which was unexpectedly short. Usually you get a couple of pages of tires to look at and choose from.

[Texas Jim]

I have Yokohama Advan S.4 ultra high performance tires on my 2006 Performance Sedan.

They handle the road very well and are pretty quiet, especially compared to the Bridgestone Turenza EL400 that came on the car as OEM.

The prices look to have came down a lot since I bought mine... but mine are "V Rated 245x50x18... not "H" rated.

If I remember right they were about $225 dollars each, maybe a little more, but that went to over $275 dollars each, after all the taxes, mounting and lifetime balance and rotation were added on.

It was right at $1,200 bucks when all was said and done.

And yes, I "WOULD" buy them again.

I like them real well.

[99EldoETC]

@ Cadillac Jim, Thanks. I missed the Tire Selection Guide search feature last night. The Yokohama Advan S.4 ultra high performance all-season tire, is definetly one that I will be considering.

@ Texas Jim, Thank you for your info regarding your personal experience with the Yokohama's. It's much appreciated.

If anyone else has any experiences, good or bad, to share regarding tires for the '99 or so ETC please feel free to add your content.

Thanks!

[Cadillac Jim]

I had a set of "Touring" tires on it once. I took them off and left them at a tire dealer after 50 miles. Another set was "High Performance" or some such selected by a tire dealer to my criteria; they had neither the feel nor the grip of the OEM Goodyear RS-As that came on the car. Since then I have insisted on picking my tires out using the WWW and buying only what I want, usually from The Tire Rack.

Incidentally, I called a local NTB outlet about a set of tires for my CTS-V because they had provided a good set of Michelin Pilot Sport A/S tires for my 1997 ETC once, years ago. With the CTS-V they acted like I, and the car, were radioactive.