Does anyone know..

[Logan]

Looking at different options for the blown 2001 head gasket.

One option...install a used 2003 engine.

There is a glut of used 2003 Northstar versions available. Many well under $1000 including shipping.

**The problem seems to be...the standard salvage yard cross listing shows the 2003 as a 'one' year engine ( perhaps incorrectly ). Hence the fire-sale prices as they are not selling them as a drop in replacement for a 2000-2002.

No question it will bolt in. Internet searching shows maybe slightly different exhaust manifolds. Maybe a different bolt used to retain the cam gears. Also maybe a relearn using a Tech 2 ( have one ) due to slightly different cam shafts ( *not the vin 9 / Y camshaft issue ).

Every thing so far looks the same. Same coil packs, crank sensors, cam sensor, etc. AJ has posted ( in a old post..other forum ) it will work.

I always thought a 2000-2003 engine could be used in a 2000, 2001, 2002, or 2003. I know a 1999 or 2004 version will not work.

It may be just some very slight changes that technically makes it not a drop in. It would be easy to swap the manifolds over and do a relearn with a Tech 2.

If anyone has more info..please share.

[Logan]

Ok...been cross checking part numbers on Rock Auto...2002 vs. 2003 Northstar. Keep in mind the parts list on Rock Auto may not be 100% correct.

Crankshaft- same (whew..that's a biggie)

Timing chain- same

Engine gasket set- same

Camshaft seal- same

Cam sensor- same

Crank sensors (upper and lower)- same

Timing set- same

Valve lifter- same

Intake manifold- same

Exhaust manifold (Dorman / aftermarket)- same

Need to find out more about cam and cam sprockets (none listed on Rock Auto)

[Bruce Nunnally]

I don't have any info to share but I am enjoying your analysis.

Dallas CL shows 2 2001 engines:

Mar 22 - 2001 Northstar Engine, No Core charge - $699 (Dallas) auto parts - by owner

Mar 20 - 2001 CADILLAC DEVILLE MOTOR NORTHSTAR - (GRAND PRAIRIE) auto parts - by owner img

[Ranger]

Maybe this will help Logan.

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/northstar-performance-technical-discussion/199946-northstar-swaps-what-years-interchangeable-differences.html

[KHE]

Logan,

How many miles are on your existing engine?

I'd lean towards repairing the existing engine before installing a used engine.

[Logan]

Logan,

How many miles are on your existing engine?

I'd lean towards repairing the existing engine before installing a used engine.

Thanks Ranger- I have seen that link. Trying to verify the same info.

As for miles..very close to 200k.

Right now I'm about 95% sure the 2003 engine would work.

I may not even fix the car. Just looking at the options. I actually have the car on Craigslist as a 200k Cadillac with a head gasket problem. We'll see. I've got too many cars right now as it is..

Normally I would repair the engine I have...but the 2003's engines are fire sale priced.

[KHE]

If you can get the 2003 engine to work, that might be the way to go. The problem with a used engine is you would have no idea if the rings were stuck or if it was going to blow a headgasket in the near future.

If it were me, I'd re-seal the crankcase, oil manifild plate and oil pan at a minimum.

[Cadillac Jim]

If I had the time and a clean place indoors for a project, I would rent or buy an engine stand and go for it. For me, it would be a weeks-long project, what with the photography and all.

[caddypete]

I remember looking into that swap awhile back, and I recall they are interchangable. The only problem was if you tried to intecahange a vin y with a vin 9 due to different redlines and outputs,but the only difference between the two was the intake cams and programing

[Cadillac Jim]

Programming can be a problem for most 90's Northstars unless you have a Tech II.

[Logan]

I remember looking into that swap awhile back, and I recall they are interchangable. The only problem was if you tried to intecahange a vin y with a vin 9 due to different redlines and outputs,but the only difference between the two was the intake cams and programing

I am aware of the VIN Y vs 9 issue.

This swap would be a VIN Y to Y swap.

Salvage yard book shows the 2003 wont work. I don't think that's true.

Still mulling over it. Currently, the car is drivable.

Have to face the facts...

Car is very close to 200k.

It's a 12-13 year old car.

Really just my 'rainy day' car.

I could wreck the car tomorrow.

[BodybyFisher]

That is a nice analysis Ranger, thanks

Logan, I was going to call my local scrap yard who I have a relationship with, but I see you have considered their swapability records

[KHE]

I would look at the 2003 engine and verify all the attachment points on the block for the accessories are the same as the 2001. You can re-use your 2001 heads, intake, ignition, etc. I am not sure when the front/rear coil packs were replaced with coil on plug but there may be some issue with mounting those components.

There may be an issue with the knock sensor mounting - you might need to drill and tap the spot on the valley under the intake. Jake over on Cadillacforums may have some additional information.

[Cadillac Jim]

If you pull the heads on a Northstar engine, you are committing to a Timesert job.

[Logan]

If you pull the heads on a Northstar engine, you are committing to a Timesert job.

I agree. Any touching of the heads warrants a timesert or stud repair.

The 2003 engine swap is being considered as a faster, cheaper repair. The 2003 engines are pretty cheap as the salvage yard cross check book shows the 2003 as being a 'one year' engine. Pretty hard to sell a '2003 only' engine.

I'm about 95% sure the 2003 will work in a 2001. Parts checked so far are the same as the 2001. See earlier postings...A 2004 engine will not work.

Right now, I simply jump the high speed cooling fan relay. That easily keeps the car from overheating.

It's a second car. I really just use it on rainy days...or Home Depot or Kroger trips. It's a very nice car but the reality is it's 12 years old and has 200k miles.