gygmy Posted November 16, 2004 Report Share Posted November 16, 2004 We recently purchased a 97 STS from a Cadillac dealer. The car has 78k on it. Immediately after taking delivery of the car we experienced overheating and the traction control was engaging when it should'nt. We brought the car in to have it diagnosed. The service department said the radiator cap had failed and was replaced. They could find no codes for the traction control problem. We took the car back and experienced the same problems. The car was sent back to the dealer. Here is where things get interesting. On our sales contract we had a 1500 mi. 30 day warranty written in. In the state of CT any used car purhased from a dealer that is less than six years old, cost more than $3000.00, and is used for personal use is covered by a 1500 mi. 30 day warranty. Our car would not be covered under this state law because it is over 6 years old. But we did have the dealers warranty for this coverage written in on our contract. After bringing the car in for service the second time it was diagnosed with a leaking head gasket and the front wiring harness for the traction control needed replacement. They also said that we did'nt have a warranty. I'm guessing that the service department assumed that since the car was over 6 years old that it was'nt covered and that any work they did on the car would be $ in their pockets. They had'nt bothered to look at the bill of sale. Now they say yes we will do the work for you free of charge. To fix the traction control they will install the wiring harness. To fix the over heating/head gasket problem they re-torqued the head bolts. Now my question is retighting the head bolts a viable remedy that can work or is it some way to get me out of their hair once they realized they were on the hook for a head gasket replacement? I've done some searching in the archives and at other sites but I have not read anything concering re-torquing head bolts to fix a leaking head gasket. I really want this car to be whole again becase it is a blast to drive. Any feedback on this would be greatly appreciated because the car will supposedly be ready tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted November 16, 2004 Report Share Posted November 16, 2004 They are just trying to buy time and get them past the 30 days. They retorqued the bolts and probably loaded it with sealant tabs. IT WILL FAIL AGIAN........ at your expense. Don't accept the car back until it is repaired per the service manual and insist that all the bolt holes be "Timeserted" or it will fail in 10K or so. If they balk, get a refund and find another one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted November 16, 2004 Report Share Posted November 16, 2004 We know here that re-torquing the head bolts is not a fix for a leaking head gasket. The trick is finding official guidance from Cadillac indicating the proper repair procedure. If you can acquire a '97 service manual, this guidance appears on page 6-179 of book 2 (the powertrain book). Step 13 of the "Loss of Coolant" troubleshooting flowchart asks "Is the cylinder head gasket leaking?" If yes, the repair is "Replace the cylinder head gasket." (Note, the repair is NOT listed as "Retorque head bolts.") If you have an official diagnosis from the dealership as "leaking head gasket" I would absolutely insist that they replace the head gasket, with the Timeserts. We know from experience that re-torquing the bolts won't help...and they know that too, but they're just trying to push you off out of the warranty period. But the official GM guidance indicates they need to replace the gasket, and that's absolutely what I'd make them do. If you want me to scan this page, let me know. Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caddyman Posted November 16, 2004 Report Share Posted November 16, 2004 Most, I think all Cadillac and GM dealers have a warranty on the work preformed, so that would extend that part of it. But if a repair was made under your current warrany, and that repair fails, it falls on the responsibility of the person / sho that said they "fixed" it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gygmy Posted November 16, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2004 Thanks, I think I will have a bit more leverage with these guys when I ask to see for myself where it says in the service manual that tightening the head bolts is an official Cadillac repair. They would make themselves look extreamly suspicious if they refused such a reasonable request. I also intend to be Politeness Man in dealing with these folks. Thanks again, the info you folks supplied gives me more confidence in addressing this problem. I'll keep you posted on this particular soap opera. Oh, yeah if jadcock could scan that particular page for me that would be great. Wish me luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted November 16, 2004 Report Share Posted November 16, 2004 Oh, yeah if jadcock could scan that particular page for me that would be great. No problem, I'll scan it in tomorrow. Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeb Posted November 16, 2004 Report Share Posted November 16, 2004 I thought if you discovered a problem during the "warranty" period and attempted to fix it and it failed soon after that the problem was still covered by the warranty. Ford used to warranty their repairs for life. if you paid for the repair once, and it failed down the road than you were covered. i think this is due to the fact that most people sell the car and the new owners are not covered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gygmy Posted November 16, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2004 I'm calling up our State Dept. of Consumer Protection to see if I can get an answer to this question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
growe3 Posted November 16, 2004 Report Share Posted November 16, 2004 As per bbobynski and jadcock, you cannot fix the head bolt by tightening the bolt more. It may stop the leak for a short time, but it will be back. Head gasket replacement is an expensive, labor intensive repair job. It sounds like they are just trying to get you out the door. Demand a complete and proper repair job, which includes Timeserting the head bolt holes, with documentation and a warranty to cover these repairs, or give them the car back and look elsewhere. -George Drive'em like you own 'em. - ....................04 DTS............................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gygmy Posted November 17, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2004 Hey! Guess what. They have agreed to do the gaskets. Should be done by the end of the week. I will not be fully chilled-out though until we get the car back with full documentation on the work performed. I'm sure nicely asking all the right questions concerning these repairs could'nt of hurt in getting this potentially lousy situation resolved to my satisfaction. You've all helped me approach this repair difficulty with more knowledge and confidence than I would of had otherwise. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted November 17, 2004 Report Share Posted November 17, 2004 That's great news! Especially since I forgot to bring the service manual in to work to scan it! Doh! I hope it all turns out good...and let me know if you'd still like a copy of that page and I'll try an' remember to bring it tomorrow. Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted November 17, 2004 Report Share Posted November 17, 2004 Be sure they "timesert" all the bolt holes, even if you have to pay for the ones they say are ok or you'll be back in 10K or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry94 Posted November 17, 2004 Report Share Posted November 17, 2004 Be sure they "timesert" all the bolt holes, even if you have to pay for the ones they say are ok or you'll be back in 10K or so. A few years ago I DID NOT Timesert my engine when the head was removed. About 30K km (20K mi) later, I had three head bolts that had pulled the threads from the block. If you have any intention of keeping this car for awhile, you really need to have the block "Timeserted". Yes, it may last without doing this, however the real issue is, it "May Not". If you want the confidence of believing you have an engine that will last 200-300K miles, then you must timesert the engine. Barry 2008 STS V82016 Colorado Z711970 Corvette LT-1 Coupe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
an01sts Posted November 18, 2004 Report Share Posted November 18, 2004 I don't know whether or not it applies to buying used vehicles, but you might want to also call Cadillac Customer Satisfaction 1.800.458.8006. Contrary to some people's belief, Cadillac Corp. is quite concerned about its reputation. (You know, it ain't like it's a vette or other Chebby product.) It doesn't like dealers ripping off customers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gygmy Posted November 19, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2004 jadcock, if you could still send me the scan that would be cool. I think I'll get the service manual for this car. Had one for our older car and it made fine reading. I'm going to make a point that this car be repaired as specified by Cadillac. How can they make a logical beef about that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gygmy Posted November 19, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2004 Does the service manual require you to timesert all the bolt holes for a proper repair or does the dealer have an "out" on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted November 19, 2004 Report Share Posted November 19, 2004 This is not fact and I am not sure what the manual says but I think I've heard others including mechanics on this board say that they will only cover the ones with bad threads ie; repair rather than prevent. That is why I said "even if you have to pay for a portion of it yourself" meaning the ones that are not bad if they won't cover all of them, you'd be money ahead to do it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gygmy Posted November 29, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2004 Just wanted youall to know the dealer replaced both gaskets and timeserted the studs. Also replaced the front abs wiring harness. Car drives great. Took it home yesterday. A pick-up got on my bumper going up a hill both going about 75 mph, punched it and I was gone like he was standing still. This car is such a sleeper. Fun. I intend to give it a couple more days of "testing" and then write a thankyou letter to the service manager because he seemed to take a personal interest in this repair. When somebody does right by you they should be acknowledged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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