davedog Posted November 15, 2004 Report Share Posted November 15, 2004 Well, here is what I ended up doing: 1. First I tried the whole weed-whacker-trimmer line thingy.....after playing around attempting to push it down one of the rubber drain hoses, I gave up. Frankly I never thought this would work (sorry guys) and I'm still in amazement how anyone has managed to push that thing the whole way though.....maybe I had the wrong type of weed-whacker line? 2. Plugged in the air compressor. 3. I decided to take down the headliner so I could keep an eye on the hose connections (to make sure they didn't blow off their connectors), and to see if I could tell exactly where the water was coming from. I'm again a little confused. I kept hearing all this hype about "DON'T BLOW THE DRAINS OUT!" but mine were firmly clamped in place by little plastic clamp-type thingies...heck, I couldn't even pull the darn hoses off!!! Maybe someone has already been in there modifying things???? At any rate there was not chance of them coming apart. 4. First I blew out the front two drains. No resistance what so ever, not dirt came out the bottom of the car, I wasn’t surprised – the leak is in the back passenger side of the headliner. 5. Now on to the rear drain hoses. I figured that since I couldn’t pull the hoses off, and of course you can’t get to the rear drains from above, that I would do it through the trunk. I decided that I didn’t feel like crawling under the car, so I pulled the hoses through the trunk floor, pretty easy. On the end of each hose there is what I guess you could call a “burper” ? (Lets the water out, but keeps dirt from going up in the hose from the road). Anyway, I pulled each one off (the glue was old and barley holding them on), so I could really see how clear things were. The drivers side burper came off, no dirt visible, blew that hose out, no resistance, but upon walking around to the front of my car there was lots of little bits of crap that had blown all over the hood and windshield. Pulled the passenger side burper off the end of the hose and it was full of all kinds of wet dirt and what looked like leaf stems (Hmmm…this is the same side as my wet headliner….hmm). Cleaner that burper out, then blew the hose out. More crap on windshield. 6. Put everything back together, I was pretty impressed over all how easy it was to access under the headliner. 7. After the detailed post an01sts left, I was pretty convinced that the loose seal was NOT the cause of my leak. I did what he suggested and pushed down on the window, it didn’t wiggle at all, so the “real” seal should still be good. Got some window sealant and glued down the decorative seal anyway. 8. After reading up in the manual about sunroof adjustment, I noticed that the rear of the sunroof glass panel was not exactly flush with the car, not WAY off or anything, but I adjusted it, so it was. And that’s pretty much it! Now I just have to wait for the next big storm. I’ll keep ya’ll posted. Thank you such much for all your valuable input, and I hope my finding help the next unfortunate soul that comes across a wet headliner. Next project: After adjusting the sunroof, I realized that getting it out and removing the sunshade (on which the fabric is sagging – the rest of the headliner is perfect – go figure) is not that difficult. So next weekend I’ll probably buy some new fabric, and replace the sagging stuff. -dave Crystal Red Tintcoat Exterior | Shale/Brownstone Interior | 32k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rek Posted November 15, 2004 Report Share Posted November 15, 2004 Dave, Good Job! How did you get the headliner down? rek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davedog Posted November 15, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2004 Dave, Good Job! How did you get the headliner down? 1. Removed covers for front pillars (they just snap on & off). 2. Removed sun visors (3 crews each) 3. Removed map lights (they are held with clips) 4. Removed passanger sider interior peice (2 screws under covers on ends of handle, the rest is held in place by clips). This allowed me to pull down about 70% of the headliner, I did not actually remove the whole thing as doing the above steps let me access and see what I needed to, but all I would have had to do was remove the driver's side interior peice to take the whole thing out. Let me know if you have any other questions. Crystal Red Tintcoat Exterior | Shale/Brownstone Interior | 32k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
an01sts Posted November 16, 2004 Report Share Posted November 16, 2004 Dave: Waiting for rain isn't a good way to veify the leak. Part of my automotive career was specailzing in water leaks and windnoises, and I went to GM Technical Water Leak/Windnoise school in Garland, TX. With hard-to-find water leaks, you have to use a process of elimination, verifying whether or not a compent is responsible to the problem. If you water test the backglass, you can verify that it is or isn't the backglass leaking. Another thing you can do to make sure that it's the sunroof is eliminate all other possibities. That way, you are sure that it's the sunroof and can focus on it as the water source. This is how I would determine whether or not it's the sunroof: I'd take goose tape (some people call it duck tape, but I perfer to call it goose tape, a lable coined by my daughter when she was about 4), close the sunroof, and goose tape body and glass. Then I would water test the whole top part of the car. That way, you'll know for sure that it's the sunroof. If you have the sunroof taped off, you might find out that it isn't the sunroof: It could be the backglss, and it could be the seam at the edge of the sail panel and the roof. (I found a trunk water leak that entered at a seam at the front corner of the top of the roof. The water entered a small hole, ran the length of the inner structure, and drained into the trunk.) Unless you know for sure that it's the sunroof, you're wasing your time and destroying your car as you play hit-or-miss. If it still leaks with the sunroof taped shut, you tape off other areas, one at a time, until you find the area that leaks. Like the above mentioned car, I had the whole darn thing taped shut before I found that leak. In order to know what it is, sometimes, you have to make sure what it isn't. When you get paid .5 hr, maybe an hour if you beg, you cannot afford to play hit or miss if you cannot figure out the problem immeadiately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted November 16, 2004 Report Share Posted November 16, 2004 and I went to GM Technical Water Leak/Windnoise school in Garland, TX. "Water Leak School" ...sounds funny, "Windnoise School" ... well, this is much better Dave, Despite I am sure an01sts knows very well what he is talking about, I had bad experiense with goose tape. I goose taped some leaks on my back door and when tried to remove the tape in a couple of months it removed the clear coat Perhaps lack of education (no Leak/Noise Schools ) and the extended period of time was the factor, but... be careful. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted November 16, 2004 Report Share Posted November 16, 2004 Davedog, Nice picture. Just don't tell me it is Green Polo! It is black. Period. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poobah Posted November 16, 2004 Report Share Posted November 16, 2004 Pulled the passenger side burper off the end of the hose and it was full of all kinds of wet dirt and what looked like leaf stems (Hmmm…this is the same side as my wet headliner….hmm). Cleaner that burper out, then blew the hose out. More crap on windshield. Sounds to me like you found the problem! My sunroof isn't leaking but I wonder if it would be possible to run a weed-whacker line (or something of that sort) up through the rear drain "burpers" next time the car is in the air as a preventative maintenance measure. What do you think? Happiness is owning a Cadillac with no codes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rek Posted November 16, 2004 Report Share Posted November 16, 2004 Thanks for the tips on getting the headliner down. The procedure sounds pretty straight forward- common sense. I don't want to cause any leaks by saying " I don't have any now". But sure as shootin, if I comment on how well something is working or hasn't needed any repairs, more than not, the item in question WILL prove me wrong. Example: Last summer I made a comment to my wife, " Wow, this tractor sure starts up quick and easy". The very next time I tried to start it, the starter-drive unit took a DUMP. Murphy, get lost, go away, stop bothering me... rek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOOB Posted November 16, 2004 Report Share Posted November 16, 2004 take it thru a touchless carwash. the high pressure wash reminds me of the little leak at my rear passenger side door every time i go thru one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davedog Posted November 17, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2004 Davedog, Nice picture. Just don't tell me it is Green Polo! It is black. Period. LOL!!!!!!!!!! do i have to email you a scan of the paint code sticker or what?? How about the window sticker LOL you're too much! Anyway, those are good troubleshooting techniquies an01sts, and I'll keep them in mind. I'm hoping I got it however, since, the drain on the side i was getting the leak was almost totally clogged. I'll keep ya'll posted though... As for preventative maintenance, I think i'll be checking the trunk drains since they are so easy to get to every couple months, so I don't have this again. Crystal Red Tintcoat Exterior | Shale/Brownstone Interior | 32k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
an01sts Posted November 18, 2004 Report Share Posted November 18, 2004 Of coures, you always remove the goose tape as soon as your done. You never want to leave any tape on a car because in 24 hours, it can become a permant part of the car. Another thing to keep in mind is that finishes in poor shape can be ripped off the car with the goose tape. The blue tape used for painting wouldn't be as agressive. I'm not that fimiliar with how it acts after it has been wet, but I would think it would be more than wise, to remove it immeaditly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davedog Posted November 18, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2004 UPDATE: Replaced the headliner on the sunshade last night. EASY job in my opinion. If anyone is insterested I'll post instructions. Looks AWESOME, really amazing what a $9.80 can do for a car, it's just hard to get used to it being fixed, it's always sagged since I got it. Also, supposed to rain pretty hard in the next 24hrs....so I get to see how my work holds up. Crystal Red Tintcoat Exterior | Shale/Brownstone Interior | 32k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted November 18, 2004 Report Share Posted November 18, 2004 (adallak @ Nov 15 2004, 08:57 PM) Davedog, Nice picture. Just don't tell me it is Green Polo! It is black. Period. LOL!!!!!!!!!! do i have to email you a scan of the paint code sticker or what?? tongue.gif How about the window sticker biggrin.gif Dave, I will agree your car is Polo Green only on the condirion your hair is Polo Green too. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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