Front Suspension Noise

[Rich]

Good morning and Happy Holidays to all. I have a 1997 Eldorado Touring that I bought new that now has 127,000 miles accumulated. The car has been driven its entire service life in Westchester County, NY. Front suspension is all original with nothing ever having been replaced. I'm noticing a front suspension noise over broken pavement at speeds below approximately 40 MPH. I've seen this noise described as a "loose lumber sound" and described in TSB 53-33-04B which I believe identifies the problem as strut mount bushings. I've also seen the sound described as "popcorn in microwave sound" with the problem being identified as bad stabilizer links. Both sound descriptions are accurate to my ear, though my passengers never notice unless I point it out. Some don't even notice it then. When I was under the car recently with a Cadillac service tech he showed me that the passenger side stabilizer link had some play in it but I don't know if this is the source of the noise. The car drives and handles fine with no driveability issues that I can notice and I think I'm pretty sensitive to these things. Before being shown the loose stabilizer link, I asked the dealer what the cost would be to have the strut mount bushings replaced and I think he quoted $700 or $800. The tech also discouraged having this done. He said that when accessing the bushings on a car with this mileage, the suspension components tend not to cooperate during the disassembly and fall apart. What do you folks think about all this? Should I pursue this or just continue to drive the car as the dealer suggested. Just FYI, I have a good relationship with this dealer. Thanks to all.

[Logan]

Over the 15 year history of this website...The famous 'popcorn in the microwave' sound is the perfect description of worn stabilizer links for the '92-97 Seville/ STS/ and the '92-01 Eldorado models. The links may feel fine in your hand...but under real operating conditions...worn out ones will create that exact sound. Fairly easy and inexpensive to repair.

[KHE]

Use a pry bar and move the stabilizer bar while watching the links - if you see any movement at the links, the links are bad. If you see movement at the stabilizer mounting bushings, the busings are bad.

Dealers typically do not want to work on a 15 year old car. That may be the source of the "suspension components falling apart" line.

A worn strut bearing will cause a noise when turning the steering wheel at very low speeds such as pulling into a parking spot.

The issue with your car is either the links or the stabilizer bar mounting bushings.

[Cadillac Jim]

I have a really good dealer now. The tech is salivating at replacing the struts someday; I don't have the heart to tell him that I can get AC/Delco struts from Rock Auto at half what the parts charge would be, and Monroe OEM exact replacements for half that. I would trust a good suspension shop to replace the strut mounts and bushings and perform the alignment.

If you do go that route, replace the rear shocks at the same time for best satisfaction with ride and handling after the fact. Be warned that they are about the same price as the struts. You can get Arnott shocks and struts for far less but they give up the RSS and probably the FE3 handling, and fool the Stabilitrak, ABS, and anti-lock so those can't be counted on to behave as they should. If you have a regular Eldorado, that might be a good option if you don't care about resale value, which is pretty low for a 14-year-old car, but if you drive an ETC and like the ride of RSS and the handling, and the stability and safety of Stabilitrak, I would stick with OEM quality struts and shocks.

But, the strut bushings can be replaced without replacing the struts. I drive a 1997 ETC that I bought new, also with all-original suspension, and except for a little strut mount noise everything seems as good as new - and I don't baby my car. I didn't buy it for that.

[Rich]

Thanks for the replies gents. The dealer did manipulate the stabilizer bar with a steel rod to show me the play. The only symptom my car exhibits is the noise described above. There is no noise produced with slow speed turns, so I suppose I can eliminate the strut mount bushings as the issue. This is the problem the dealer (service tech) didn't seem to want to deal with. Surprisingly, my struts seem fine even with the 127,000 miles of spirited driving over typically poor N/E New York road surfaces. Jim, I'm relieved to hear that A/C Delco struts (OEM) are available from Rock Auto at a reasonable price. My Eldorado is the ETC (CVRSS) and I don't want to give anything up when the time does come to replace the shocks and struts. When I do replace them I'll do all four corners, but I'm hoping I can still go a while before doing so. The Eldorado drives beautifully, and except for the noises described in this thread seems to need nothing. So I suppose my problem is likely the stabilizer links and bushings which I will look into having replaced the next time my car is in for service. I hope this isn't an expensive proposition. Thanks to all for their valued opinions.

[KHE]

The dealer did manipulate the stabilizer bar with a steel rod to show me the play.

Where was the play? Was it in the links or the bushing? Knowing that will indicate if the links are due for replacement or if it is the bushings are due for replacement.

[Rich]

I can't recall specifically where the play was. I saw the stabilizer bar move slightly (passenger side only) when the tech pried on it with the steel bar. But considering the mileage (127,000), shouldn't I have both the links and bushings replaced at the same time while in for the front end service? Would the cost to do both be prohibitive? I assumed that the only really costly suspension components on the ETC were the CVRSS struts/shocks, which still seem to be very serviceable and not yet in need of replacement.

[Cadillac Jim]

The stabilizer links on our Cadillacs are made with two ball joints similar to those in tie-rod ends. Thus they are as expensive as, well, two tie-rod ends, each. Mine were $65 each. I seem them for slightly less on Rock Auto, and also some $25 "service grade" replacements that I wouldn't want on my car, but may well be OK.

[BodybyFisher]

You are talking about a 97 Eldorado, rubber dry rots, grease dries out, your car is 15 model years old at this point.

I am a big proponent in replacing rubber, turning and grease packed items as a car ages. The overall improvement in performance and ride benefits

To me, as these cars age, a rebuild of the front end restores the new car ride and performance.

Get under there and look around I have threads here where I replaced my front end rubber and wearing components

Rather than trying to find the proverbial needle in a haystack as LOGAN said, your problem is typically a bad stabilizer link or a stabilizer bar bushing, very cheap and easy to do. Buy a set of bar bushings, two new stabilizers and bam better cornering and noise should be gone. If you have average mechanical skills you can do this job yourself.

Next replace the strut rod bushings with poly bushing, result, better straight line stability. Check the balljoints and ball joint seals at the time, if they are bad replace them.

I was never a needle in the haystack type of guy, because this is an aging car, replacing front end components will make a HUGE difference, starting with the rubber and joint components.... My Deville handled like a much smaller car because of my tightening it up

[Rich]

Thanks all. I plan to address my front end issues in the new year. I'm looking forward to it. Cheers!

[Rich]

Jim - I'm confused. You said your front suspension on your 97 Eldorado ETC is all original, but in your subsequent post you said your stabilizer links cost $65 each. Did you replace your stabilizer links? If so, do you still hear that "popcorn in microwave sound" over poor pavement? Also, how many miles do you have on your Eldorado?

[Cadillac Jim]

By the suspension, I mean the A-frames, ball joints, struts, shocks, etc. I don't consider stabilizer bars as part of the suspension itself, but a tuning device for handling, although you obviously differ; please forgive me for seeming contradictory. I have replaced my front stabilizer links, but my rear ones are original. I never heard the "popcorn in the microwave" sound but could hear stabilizer link chatter which did go away. By the time you hear the popcorn sound, you are metal-on-metal in what was once ball joints and are waaaayy overdue. I had about 150,000 miles on my car when I had it done about 5,000 miles back.

[Rich]

Thanks Jim. I didn't mean to imply that you weren't being clear. I just misunderstood. So, based on what I'm hearing I think I need to have the stabilizer links replaced. I'll make my way over to the shop after the new year. Thanks all for the great advice. Happy Holidays to all!!!

[KHE]

Make sure you have the stabilizer bar bushings checked also. My STS was making the popping sound over bumps and I replaced the links and the noise was still there. I then found the bushing on the right side was worn. I replaced the bushings and the noise was gone.

[KevinW]

Make sure you have the stabilizer bar bushings checked also. My STS was making the popping sound over bumps and I replaced the links and the noise was still there. I then found the bushing on the right side was worn. I replaced the bushings and the noise was gone.

This matches my experiences with an STS and a Concours. The stabilizer bar bushings externally looked fine and no play was observed, however, new GM replacements (updated units per several TSBs) eliminated the front end popping/rattling noises, which were apparently due to the movement of the bar relative to the bushings.

[KHE]

This matches my experiences with an STS and a Concours. The stabilizer bar bushings externally looked fine and no play was observed, however, new GM replacements (updated units per several TSBs) eliminated the front end popping/rattling noises, which were apparently due to the movement of the bar relative to the bushings.

I used aftermarket bushings and they eliminated the problem initially but after 6000 miles, I am starting to hear the popping noise again... I need to put the car on ramps and check it out to make sure it is the bushings.

[Rich]

So it looks like I'll have the stabilizer links and sway bar bushings replaced next month. I just had new Michelin tires mounted about 500 miles ago along with a four wheel alignment. After having the stabilizer links and sway bar bushings replaced, would that throw off the recent alignment requiring another alignment after the front end work is done?

[BodybyFisher]

So it looks like I'll have the stabilizer links and sway bar bushings replaced next month. I just had new Michelin tires mounted about 500 miles ago along with a four wheel alignment. After having the stabilizer links and sway bar bushings replaced, would that throw off the recent alignment requiring another alignment after the front end work is done?

Not at all

[Rich]

I found a local Mavis shop that I've used for alignments that will do my front end work with AC Delco parts, but I would need to order the parts myself and bring them in. I asked if they could give me the part numbers but they didn't have a resource to cross reference GM parts. They use only aftermarket parts. Sounds a bit odd but at least I'll be sure the parts are genuine if I order them myself. Rock Auto lists the stabilizer links for $60.99 each with a part number listed as 45G0052. I assume the left and right side are the same and I need to order two of the same part. I tried to cross reference the part number at gmpartsdirect but the number wasn't listed at all. As for the stabilizer bushings, I'm finding four different bushings listed for the 1997 Eldorado ETC depending on stabilizer bar diameter. They list diameters of 19MM (P/N 45G1454), 21MM (P/N 45G1455, 29MM (P/N 45G1456), and 31MM (P/N 45G1457). I'm a bit hesitant to order these parts without some sort of part number verification as I can visualize my car on the lift at Mavis with the front end partially disassembled and the tech telling me that I brought the wrong parts. Is there an online reference chart for this sort of thing? Also, are the brackets for the bushings reusable? I don't see any part number at all for those.

[BodybyFisher]

I am surprised to see that the links are so expensive, but it is what it is.

You will need to measure your stabilizer bar. I recall measuring mine when I replaced my link. I used this digital caliper from Harbor Freight

http://www.harborfre...iper-47257.html

There may be a way from the RPO sticker in the trunk to determine what the size of your bar is, but I dont know that answer. Ill see what I can find in the service manual.

The two brackets are usable. I used poly stabilizer bar bushings see this site and see what you can find

http://www.energysuspension.com/

[Cadillac Jim]

There are two sets of stabilizer bars for the Eldorado, one for the ESC and one for the ETC. The ETC stabilizers are larger. That said, the front ones for an ETC are probably going to be for the largest diameter, 31 mm. As for the rear, for an ETC it won't be the smallest but which of the two middle sizes is hard to guess from here. I would estimate 21 mm for the rear of the ETC. I would ask them to put a caliper on each stabilizer bar and tell you what the diameter is.

[Rich]

So I had my stabilizer links and stabilizer bar bushings replaced this morning. The popcorn sound is totally gone. What a relief and what a difference. As I said in an earlier post, I ordered the links from RockAuto (got the 5% Caddyinfo discount too)but had to order the bushings from the Cadillac dealer since I wasn't sure of the part number. Interestingly, the dealer couldn't confirm the bar diameter but the holes in the bushings sure didn't look like 29mm or 31mm. But he assured me they would fit and they did. The price at the dealer for the bushings was $33 each vs $10 each from RockAuto for the same AC Delco part. Unreal. But I did have a $25 dealer coupon to offset the cost a bit. Anyway, Mavis installed everything for $107 in under two hours. Very satisfied with the result. The Eldorado again rides like a Cadillac should. Thank you all for your guidance.

Rich

[Paul_A/V]

I have a 2005 STS that has the chatter sound in the front driver side. So I had my mechanic look at it and sure enough he said the sway bar links are wearing. He said nothing of the bushings. Looking at Rock auto I did not see a sway bar bushing but there is a control arm bushing. Could this be the same bushing that you're referring to in your posts?

Regards,

Paul

[Paul_A/V]

On closer inspection of the replacement parts for the link, it appears that the bushing comes with the part. See the link below.

http://www.rockauto.com/info/345/45G20702_Primary__ra_p.jpg

Regards,

Paul