glynnd Posted November 9, 2011 Report Share Posted November 9, 2011 I have recently replaced the battery in my Catera after as long as a delay as possible (batteries aren't cheap). Anywho, after leaving the car on the trickle charger over night, at started raining and I had moved the car to where it was in the garage as far as it could go with. AFter replacing the battery, I noticed it was running rough, and the check engine light started flashing and after referencing the owners manual finding out that the conditions of misfire has been detected. I have been searching for a vacuum leak, and inspected the air filter, 2 days since it stopped raining so any connection that might have gotten wet should be dry. While the filter was not as clean as it should be, it was not out of acceptable use and I couldn't find a leak in the vacuum lines, My next step is replacing the spark plugs, however I feel it would be pointless from my observations. However the cars electrical symptoms seems to be growing the longer I drive it. The codes from the dealer are as follows: U2108, P0500("vehicle speed sensor circuit"), P0602("traction control module not programmed"), before the check engine light flashing and rough idle. What are you're experience and wise minds suggesting I do about this problem. Last resort is sell the car. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glynnd Posted November 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2011 UPDATE: Could it have anything to do with the computer relearn cycle after disconnecting the battery? "Manufacturer does not provide a specified computer relearn procedure for obtaining proper driveability. If vehicle battery was disconnected or Power Control Module was replaced, driving the vehicle will enable the PCM to perform a computer relearn procedure for obtaining proper driveability." from my Shopkey5.com diagnostics website my school uses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted November 9, 2011 Report Share Posted November 9, 2011 Yes Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glynnd Posted November 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2011 So just keep on keeping on then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyG Posted November 9, 2011 Report Share Posted November 9, 2011 I'll disregard the computer relearn issue at this time, that concerns the idle speed controller and I don't know enough about that to comment. Others here will help you on that issue I'm sure. Very damp situations, with the hood open possibly, would be more of an indication of bad plug wires rather than bad plugs. NOW, never having owned a Catera, and since we typically deal with Northstars on this group, I don't even know which engine is in your Catera. Common tests for bad plug wires are to open the hood in a very dark place, and spray water onto the engine with an atomizer (trigger spray) bottle. Any arcing will show up immediately, which will tell you that the insulation on the wires has broken down. All that being said, the idle speed controller could be the root cause of the problem, or the rain itself, or a dirty throttle body. I recently fouled a plug using the remote start feature during damp rainy conditions on my 2008 DTS. No idle relearn issues at that time, but just due to the dampness. It was only necessary to change one plug to correct the problem. I hope this helps a little. Please post back to let us know your progress on resolving the issue. We'll get it figured out eventually I'm sure. Also, for the obligatory part of any reply, post any OBDII codes that you can, provided of course that the Catera is able to display them. Never underestimate the amount of a persons greed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glynnd Posted November 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2011 I haven't gotten any new codes recently and haven't been able to run to autozone/orielly's quite just yet. Interesting procedure on the plug wires, however I haven't noticed any traditional plug wires and know that the plugs are underneath the throttle body. It has been a whole 40 hours since it stopped raining, and the rough running would still be an issue? Just a thought, not challenging your suggestion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Jim Posted November 9, 2011 Report Share Posted November 9, 2011 I have never owned a Catera but I have owned a lot of cars... :) In my opinion... for whatever that may be worth... If the hood was left up and it rained on everything...depending on the condition of all the wiring and connectors... It might take a week or more of sitting out in the bright sunshine for everything to totally dry out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glynnd Posted November 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2011 Well, then I will stay the course. And give it a couple days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glynnd Posted November 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 Well, then I will stay the course. And give it a couple days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyG Posted November 11, 2011 Report Share Posted November 11, 2011 however I haven't noticed any traditional plug wires and know that the plugs are underneath the throttle body. It has been a whole 40 hours since it stopped raining, and the rough running would still be an issue? So, you have coil over plug then? As I said, I don't know the engine. Anyway, some have reported a bad ground on the coil packs on other similarly configured engines as a cause of their miss. I can see moisture aggravating this issue, if moisture can get under the throttle body. The fact of the matter is, if you fouled a plug, for whatever reason, it will never "unfoul" itself, regardless of how dry it gets. The plug would be ruined, and would need to be changed. Never underestimate the amount of a persons greed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted November 11, 2011 Report Share Posted November 11, 2011 however I haven't noticed any traditional plug wires and know that the plugs are underneath the throttle body. Huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glynnd Posted November 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2011 The plugs are under the intake and throttle body assembly, Ranger. I haven't inspected it underneath it yet to know that that is the problem, I am prepared to do so once I know it isn't a computer problem. Like it seems just as likely. I don't know how long it would take for the computer to relearn drive ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted November 11, 2011 Report Share Posted November 11, 2011 I can't picture that. I'm not familiar with the Catera engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted November 11, 2011 Report Share Posted November 11, 2011 Some info from Cadillac: "The Catera 3.0L V6 is equipped with a distributorless ignition system. The system has 2 ignition coil packs. One coil pack is for bank 1, cylinders 1, 3, and 5, and the other coil pack is for bank 2, cylinders 2, 4, and 6. Each coil pack contains 3 coils, one for each cylinder on the bank. At the end of each coil is a boot, which connects directly to the spark plug. This eliminates the need for a spark plug wire, and the result is more precise ignition timing. The engine control module (ECM) contains the ignition control module. The module precisely controls the ignition timing. The Catera ignition system consists of 2 coil packs and the ECM. There is no separate ignition control module. The ECM performs all of the ignition control module functions. The ignition coil assembly is powered by an ignition feed circuit. The remaining three wires go to the ECM and are the ignition control (IC) circuits. The ECM causes a spark to occur by pulsing an ignition control (IC) circuit, which triggers an ignition coil and fires the appropriate spark plug. The sequencing and the timing are ECM controlled. The ECM uses input from the crankshaft position (CKP) sensor, the camshaft position (CMP) sensor and the knock sensors (KS) in order to appropriately control the ignition system." There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glynnd Posted November 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2011 Do you feel it's the ECM WarrenJ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted November 11, 2011 Report Share Posted November 11, 2011 Do you feel it's the ECM WarrenJ? In a word, no. Like others here, the post above pretty much represents the entire extent of my (newly acquired) Catera knowledge. I'm a Northstar kinda guy. My post was simply intended to put to rest any speculation the ignition wires were the root cause of your problem. That said, the fact that your engine is running at all satisfies me that the ECM is likely a happy camper, and your problem lies elsewhere. Hopefully someone here may have some meaningful help for you. Regards, Warren Oh, and... There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glynnd Posted November 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 Well, found out the the third cylinder is misfiring according to the diagnostic code p0300 and description. Going to hangs the air filter as well as the plugs. Not sure though if it's the plug or the coil pack for that cylinder, also having trouble with the spark plug change procedure for this car. Can't afford the book yet so any help is appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockfangd Posted November 14, 2011 Report Share Posted November 14, 2011 Some info from Cadillac: "The Catera 3.0L V6 is equipped with a distributorless ignition system. The system has 2 ignition coil packs. One coil pack is for bank 1, cylinders 1, 3, and 5, and the other coil pack is for bank 2, cylinders 2, 4, and 6. Each coil pack contains 3 coils, one for each cylinder on the bank. At the end of each coil is a boot, which connects directly to the spark plug. This eliminates the need for a spark plug wire, and the result is more precise ignition timing. The engine control module (ECM) contains the ignition control module. The module precisely controls the ignition timing. The Catera ignition system consists of 2 coil packs and the ECM. There is no separate ignition control module. The ECM performs all of the ignition control module functions. The ignition coil assembly is powered by an ignition feed circuit. The remaining three wires go to the ECM and are the ignition control (IC) circuits. The ECM causes a spark to occur by pulsing an ignition control (IC) circuit, which triggers an ignition coil and fires the appropriate spark plug. The sequencing and the timing are ECM controlled. The ECM uses input from the crankshaft position (CKP) sensor, the camshaft position (CMP) sensor and the knock sensors (KS) in order to appropriately control the ignition system." reminds me of the old GM 2.3 coilpack over plug setup . It had 2 coilpacks in a case that had 4 plug wire ends and bolted over the spark plugs under the beauty cover. Seemed to highly prone to failure GM FAN FOREVER Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sprinter10 Posted November 14, 2011 Report Share Posted November 14, 2011 WHen I had an engine misfire my computer never told me what cylinder it was on the onboard diagnostics. even though i am talking about my northstar the same concept should apply. In my case the engine was shaking and clearly down one or 2 cylinders. I then while it was running pulled fuel injector wires off one at a time. If the engine shook worse I put it back on and checked the next one. The one I pulled off that did not change how the engine was running at all was the cylinder that was down. Shut the engine off but At this time I still didn't know if it was my fuel injector, plug, or coil that was causing the cylinder to be down. I then swapped my rear to my front coil pack as the number 1 try. I fired the engine back up and repeated the fuel injector wire removal process to find now the cylinder that was down was on the opposite side of the motor verifying that it was in fact my coil that was bad. Idk how the Catera engine/coil system is set up but with the Northstar this entire project only took me one 10mm socket to remove the 4 bolts per coil. The rest was just pulling the plugs off by hand on the injectors and the coils after removing teh degretive engine cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glynnd Posted November 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2011 the exhaust does smell rather strong of unburned gasoline. Ive always been under the impression that if I fouled a plug or two my issues are greater than the fouling to what is causing the fouled plugs. It seems like it is a large todo to even change the plugs, using a handful of different sizes torx sockets, and some sort of connector that I don't know what it is or what it's connecting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glynnd Posted November 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 UPdate: Have changed the spark plugs and changed air filter and vehicle is still miss firing. Inspected the old spark plugs and were in rough shape. The back two on the passenger side had a coating of motor oil on them. Worried me that my issues are greater than misfiring. Probably going to change coil packs next and then injectors. Also broke something in the process some how. Some sensor on the back of the intake that I had removed to remove the intake got snapped in half. Hardwired directly into the harness, and I don't even know what sensor it is. Had a couple vacuum lines attached to it. Hopefully my "fixing" didn't cause another issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted November 16, 2011 Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 Please STOP! "Throwing parts" at a problem is unproductive, unrewarding, and uneconomic. If you can't afford a service manual, you certainly can't afford to be throwing around injectors, coil packs, and the like. Follow sprinter10's advice and use at no cost what you already have at hand. If you think you have a bad injector, swap it with another from a cylinder that is firing properly. If your misfire moves to the "donor" cylinder, you will have identified a bad injector. If your coil packs are interchangeable, swap the Bank 1 pack with the Bank 2 pack and see if the misfire moves to the other side of the engine. If it does, voila!... a bad coil pack! Some thoughtful planning will save you needed dollars. Good luck, Warren There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glynnd Posted November 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 That procedure isn't applicable here as the car won't run while being able to pull the injector wires. Just to be able to get your hands on them you have to disassemble the upper intake from the intake manifold and won't run unless air is flowing through the intake ducting. So the coil diagnostic technique wouldn't work without knowing which cylinders are missing. I can't really do that either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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