looking at new to me 1990 Coupe Deville, couple of questions [pics!]

[sprinter10]

Always like to hear a project going good the way it should be and not just finding problem after problem that are not curable. Sounds like your going to have a pretty nice restored Caddi to be driving around and should be nice and reliable. Looks great!!

[lothos]

Lothos, this is a great thread. Thanks for the progressive detail !

The interior looks real sharp. Amazing.

What a party boat !

The EGR valve ought to be easily removed using a crow's foot wrench from Sears.

Might as well replace the vac lines to EGR and solenoid. Cheap insurance.

WOOT !

Thanks! Good tip on the crow's foot wrench. The vacuum lines actually look pretty new. I also found a receipt for a brand new catalytic converter in the glove box too.

Always like to hear a project going good the way it should be and not just finding problem after problem that are not curable. Sounds like your going to have a pretty nice restored Caddi to be driving around and should be nice and reliable. Looks great!!

Thanks sprinter10!

The car's actually been pretty nice, I've been driving it since Friday Motor seems strong, transmission shifts smoothly. I've actually noticed a few people checking it out while I've been out driving, which is really cool.

It needs an alignment since we did ball joints and tie rods. It pulls to the left when you brake, not sure if that's from the alignment or a caliper not working right but we'll find out tomorrow.

Here's the rest of my to-do list:

-alignment tomorrow

-oil change tuesday

-coolant change + barsleak pellets

-front rotors, calipers, and pads

-transmission fluid / filter / gasket (probably in the spring)

[KHE]

If the car pulls to the left when braking, the problem is in the right caliper. My guess is the piston/bore are corroded. Pull the right caliper and compress the piston with a large C-clamp. If it is very difficult to compress, the piston is probably corroded.

[the gold2]

Don't know if this was mentioned on your to do list but changing the brake fluid every 2 yrs is a must in order to avoid caliper problems thru the long run.

also replacing the coolant every 2 yrs. is good to keep the engine happy as noted on your list.

new cat is certainly an added treat although odd that it failed w only 60K miles on the clock IMO ...

btw great job on the wheel well fix. Did he cut/grind out the rusted edges or just treat with rust preventative? curious..

anyway cool ride.

[lothos]

Don't know if this was mentioned on your to do list but changing the brake fluid every 2 yrs is a must in order to avoid caliper problems thru the long run.

also replacing the coolant every 2 yrs. is good to keep the engine happy as noted on your list.

new cat is certainly an added treat although odd that it failed w only 60K miles on the clock IMO ...

btw great job on the wheel well fix. Did he cut/grind out the rusted edges or just treat with rust preventative? curious..

anyway cool ride.

we replaced all of the brake lines, so the fluid is brand new as of last week. The front rotors and calipers are pretty rusty, they look pretty old. I'm planning on replacing them here soon, but will definitely keep up on the brake fluid changes.

My buddy did a great job on the wheel wells He punched out the soft rusted metal, and sanded the left over metal. We applied something called "rust fix" to it, I think it's made by Rustoleum? After that he did the fiberglass and bondo work, then painted/primed it. We probably could have matched the color a little better, but I'm pretty happy with how it turned out

[lothos]

If the car pulls to the left when braking, the problem is in the right caliper. My guess is the piston/bore are corroded. Pull the right caliper and compress the piston with a large C-clamp. If it is very difficult to compress, the piston is probably corroded.

Thanks KHE, that's kind of what I was suspecting, but I've also read that alignment problems can do that, too. When I'm driving the wheel is turned to the left to go straight, and when I apply the brakes the steering wheel levels out like it should be.

I was the one that compressed that caliper, and it didn't seem very difficult to compress. They do look pretty rusty, so they're on the list to replace.

I've noticed a couple of options for calipers, how do I know which one I need?

w/HEAVY DUTY BRAKES

HEAVY DUTY POWER BRAKES

Also there's 2 options for rotors, there's a 10.94 and a 10.26 inch rotor. Should I simply measure it?

[JohnnyG]

Looks like a really good job on the inner fenders, just need a little black paint and she should be looking REALLY good in there!

Good job on the updates too, very nice thread. It sounds like you guys are really working hard, and I think the results will be well worth it!

[KHE]

Thanks KHE, that's kind of what I was suspecting, but I've also read that alignment problems can do that, too. When I'm driving the wheel is turned to the left to go straight, and when I apply the brakes the steering wheel levels out like it should be.

I was the one that compressed that caliper, and it didn't seem very difficult to compress. They do look pretty rusty, so they're on the list to replace.

I've noticed a couple of options for calipers, how do I know which one I need?

w/HEAVY DUTY BRAKES

HEAVY DUTY POWER BRAKES

Also there's 2 options for rotors, there's a 10.94 and a 10.26 inch rotor. Should I simply measure it?

My guess is the first option should read "W/O heavy duty brakes".

Most FWD cars do not have the heavy duty brakes. HD brakes are usually for the RWD Broughams with a trailer towing package or limousine/coachbuilder option.

Sounds like the car needs a wheel alignment - I'd start there and then see if the brakes pull when applied. If they do, the caliper that is the problem is the opposite side of the direction the car pulls when the brakes are applied.

Don't be concerned about rust on the outside of the caliper - that won't hurt a thing.

[lothos]

Well, went in for the alignment today. They told me the inner tie rods were a little loose and I should replace those so I'm not wasting money on an alignment. I'll get those done next week and try the alignment again.

Got some new wipers since it started snowing today and the old ones were really bad. Also put some new headlights on. Kind of weird how the side markers come out to change the headlights. They were pretty easy to do.

Autozone only had one tie rod so I'm going to order both inners, front rotors and calipers from rockauto.

[the gold2]

Oh yeah you are lovin' that car !..... 'pride of ownership'.

[lothos]

Oh yeah you are lovin' that car !..... 'pride of ownership'.

I sure am It's nice having something new to me, the old 95 STS I drove for 5 years so it was time for something new.

Ordered some parts from rockauto tonight. I got front calipers, and front rotors, and two inner tie rod ends.

Questions on the inner tie rod ends: Are the boots reusable or I need to replace those? If so, what are they called?

How difficult is it to replace the inner tie rods? I'm aware of the need for a special rental tool from a parts store, but I'm worried about causing damage to the rack. Is this a difficult job?

[lothos]

I have a VATS problem all of a sudden. Starting last night at black friday shopping, car wouldn't start twice. Had to wait about 5 minutes each time. Kind of embarrassing when you're with family and they're waiting for you so we can all leave

I'll be going to radio shack today to grab some resistors and wires to bypass the vats system in the ignition lock. We did that with the STS so I'm familiar with the repair. Don't want to be stranded anywhere

[adallak]

I have a VATS problem all of a sudden. Starting last night at black friday shopping, car wouldn't start twice. Had to wait about 5 minutes each time. Kind of embarrassing when you're with family and they're waiting for you so we can all leave

I'll be going to radio shack today to grab some resistors and wires to bypass the vats system in the ignition lock. We did that with the STS so I'm familiar with the repair. Don't want to be stranded anywhere

Yup. just bypass. The wires inside the ignition lock cylinder on their way... You do not want to wait until they fail permanently.

[lothos]

I have a VATS problem all of a sudden. Starting last night at black friday shopping, car wouldn't start twice. Had to wait about 5 minutes each time. Kind of embarrassing when you're with family and they're waiting for you so we can all leave

I'll be going to radio shack today to grab some resistors and wires to bypass the vats system in the ignition lock. We did that with the STS so I'm familiar with the repair. Don't want to be stranded anywhere

Yup. just bypass. The wires inside the ignition lock cylinder on their way... You do not want to wait until they fail permanently.

Haha I got stuck about 20 miles from home with the STS when the wires failed. Didn't get much notice on that one, it happened once and then a year and a half later I was just suddenly stranded. At least this way I get some notice Security system did make me wait 5 minutes again at Radio Shack, but I'm home now with all the parts I need. About to get started, going to make the bypass wire tonight and install it tomorrow afternoon.

[the gold2]

Lothos sorry to hear the VATS turkey dropped on ya but I appreciate your post because I was not aware of this weakness. Evidently the wire inside has a loop (slack) to allow the key cylinder to rotate and over time the wires can break as they move back and forth. Just did a hurried research.

Now I have an extra bit of know-how, just in case.

Did you use an ohm meter on the key (how?) to identify the resistance value of the required inline jumper resistor?

[lothos]

Lothos sorry to hear the VATS turkey dropped on ya but I appreciate your post because I was not aware of this weakness. Evidently the wire inside has a loop (slack) to allow the key cylinder to rotate and over time the wires can break as they move back and forth. Just did a hurried research.

Now I have an extra bit of know-how, just in case.

Did you use an ohm meter on the key (how?) to identify the resistance value of the required inline jumper resistor?

I did use an ohm meter. The key has a black pellet with a little wire on it. Put the multimeter/ohm meter leads on the pellet and measure the resistance. Mine was 7500 ohms (7.5k ohms). Went to Radio Shack and purchased a 5.6k, a 1.5k, and some 100 ohm 1/2watt resistors. Also got some wire and a heat shrink tube to cover the resistors. Total cost was $13. You basically just solder the resistors together, and install them on the orange wire underneath the steering column.

I got my resistors all soldered tonight, took about 30 minutes. Will install it tomorrow.

Here is a very good site with much more detailed info:

http://vats.likeabigdog.com/

[adallak]

double post ...sorry

[lothos]

I got my VATS bypassed

The fix I linked to a couple of posts above this one didn't really work for me. I had to modify the instructions a little bit. I will get a writeup done and posted soon.

[lothos]

regarding my F47 (low freon) code.

accidentally set off the alarm this weekend. Didn't know how to shut it off, ended up disconnecting the battery.

F47 and FF47 (both current and history codes) appeared shortly after that.

Did a little reading on the issue, and it appears that for SOME F47 problems, pulling the battery will solve it. So I cleared the codes and went for a short drive to the bank and back and the code hasn't reappeared yet. I can use the heat on AUTO instead of ECON again.

Do I leave it as is until the code comes back?

Should I go get a can of r134a and top it off? (the system was retrofitted from r12 to r134a a couple of years ago)

If I do go get a can of r134a, how do I know how much to put in? The can will have a gauge, but I've read you need another gauge for the high side? Would it be safer/easier to just have it recharged somewhere?

[KHE]

The only way to accurately determine the charge is to recover and weigh it. Compare the weight of the recovered refrigerant with the specification on the underhood label.

Since your car has been converted to R-134a and someone undoubtedly installed a lesser amount of R-134a than what was specified for R-12, it becomes difficult to determine the "correct" charge.

If the code hasn't reset, I would be tempted to leave it alone and see what happens.

[the gold2]

KHE has the pragmatics correct.

Here is what the 'DIY' R-12 refill manual reads:

Fully warm the vehicle's engine and open the hood and passenger doors. Bring the engine to idle, and place the A/C selector level to Norm, the temperature lever to Cold, and the blower to High.

Check refrigerant level.

Looking into the sight glass (GM cars normally have them on top of receiver/drier).

Slow moving bubbles indicate system needs slight charge about 14 ounce can.

Rapid bubble action indicates system is very low on refrigerant and may require two 14 ounce cans.

Oil streaks indicate complete absence of refrigerant in system and requires complete recharge (never use more than three 14 ounce cans).

If no sight glass is present, repeat the engine warming etc. steps.

Using your hands compare the temperature of the small diameter evaporator inlet pipe and the large diamter evaporator outlet pipe, as close as possible to where they enter the firewall. Do with compressor running.

(watch the hands !!)

the two pipes should be close to same temp. 35 to 38 Fahrenheit if fully charged.

If inlet pipe feels cooler than outlet pipe, the refig is low. Add small amounts (about 1/4 pound at a time), until temp equalizes btw the two pipes.

Never add more than three 14 oz. cans etc.

alternative is to use a pressure gauge...

so that is the wisdom of the basic DIY recharge kit for R-12, don't know if R-134 is about the same...

Let us know whats up.

[KHE]

GM cars haven't had a sight glass since the mid 1970s. They use an accumulator system which has the acculumator in the low pressure side of the system. The old receiver/dryer systems had the receiver/dryer on the high side.

The system charge can be approximated with pressure gages attached to the high and low sides and monitoring the vent temperature but it is an approximation.

[lothos]

Two issues now.

1st, having a clunking noise/feeling from the front end. Hard to pinpoint, but mostly occurs during/after braking, and possibly on turns. Could this be the bad inner tie rods, or the bad caliper? Or something else? Should I ignore it until I get a chance to replace the inner tie rods and calipers and see if that fixes it? Still waiting on the calipers to arrive, they shipped out today finally. The alignment place told me my inner tie rods were shot, but they didn't mention anything else as needing repairs.

2nd, I heard a gurgling noise today shutting off the car. I could hear it inside the car. Popping the hood, it seems to come from the passenger side firewall.

Went for a drive, turned the heat to 90 on auto setting and fans on high. If I remember right that outputs on full blast. The heat was warm, but not hot. More of a lukewarm. I couldn't tell much of a difference between 72 and 90. The passenger side carpet is not wet.

When we finished the engine work a couple of weeks ago I filled up the radiator and not the top radiator hose. Do I need to bleed this system??? I thought it was self bleeding? The radiator is full but the overflow tank was empty, I don't think I ever filled it. . Noticed today that there's a fill line and a full line, and I put some coolant in it. Driving after filling the overflow still made the gurgling noise when I turned the car off. The gurgling noise starts 10-30 seconds after shutting off the car, and lasts for maybe 2 minutes?

There might have been an air bubble when I took off the radiator cap but I'm not sure, is that a bad sign? EDIT: Car was still "hot" when I did this. Don't think it's an issue?

My top big radiator hose is pretty warm but not scalding. The smaller line on top near the firewall is warm. The T going to the heater core is lukewarm, the line that goes straight down from the T is warmer than the other section.

I found 2 hoses that I THINK are the return lines from the heater core? They kind of come out of the passenger-side firewall down low and curve and bend up, if I remember right. They were cold.

This means my heater core is shot, right? Heater cores can gurgle? Or do I need to bleed the air out of the coolant system??

Looking at rockauto, I see an ACDelco heater core for $88, a delphi for $34, and Spectra, Stant, Vista-Pro, TYC and ProPart all for around $35. any suggestions on brand? Normally I would go with ACDelco but it's 50 bucks more and the Delphi says it's the OE part but I'd prefer a replacement that wasn't plastic.

[lothos]

Also, the overflow tank cap. It does not seat properly. Is this a problem?

I turned on the engine with the radiator cap off to try to purge the air. It did not bubble or anything. The radiator was full.

I've been reading threads about this issue, and some head gasket threads have popped up, which has me worried of course. The coolant inside the radiator didn't smell like exhaust at all.

[KHE]

It will take a few drive cycles to get the coolant level stabilized in the system. It is just the air working out of the system.

I don't think the gurgling is abything to worry about - it is probably the coolant working its way into the overflow/recovery tank after the engine is turned of.

As far as the heater core goes, you said both heater hoses are cold??? The inlet hose to the heater core (usually off the intake manifold but check the shop manual to be sure) should be warm. The outlet hose should be approximately the same temperature. If the outlet hose is cooler than the inlet, there is a restriction in the heater core. If you find that is the case, I would backflush the heater core with hot water pressurized if possible and then forward flush it. Then reconnect the hoses and fill the system.