cancuncaddy Posted July 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2011 WELL JUST GOOGLE VATS OR PASSKEY BYPASS FOR 1996 CADILLAC AND GO TO ANY OF THE ONES SHOWN IT SEEMS TO BE PRETTY STRAIGHTFORWARD BUT ITS PROVING TRYING AT BEST! AS FAR AS THE WAVE GENERATOR THERE ARE SEVERAL SCHEMATICS ONLINE IF YOU GOOGLE (SCHEMATICS FOR VATS BYPASS) THE FIRST RESULT IS A LSI CHEVY FORUM WHERE THERE ARE EXCELLENT DIAGRAMS AND CONCISE INFORMATION....THOSE INSTRUCTIONS ARE WHAT I USED TO BUILD THE GENERATOR ...APPARENTLY USED WITH SUCCESS IN MANY CADILLACS AND OTHER GM MODELS!!! STRAIGHTEN ME OUT ON THIS PLEASE BECOUSE IM REALLY CONFUSED NOW! IF YOU READ THE EVEN CALL THE MODULE WHERE THEY SPLICE IN THE GENERATOR A BCM THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT CAMAROS I SUPPOSE . I WOULD THINK THAT GM WOULD USE THE SAME DATA INFORMATION FORMAT AND PROTOCOL. LIKE I SAID HELP ME WITH THIS PLEASE! AT LEAST ITS AN INTERESTING ONE ....IE NOT A HEAD GASKET! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cancuncaddy Posted July 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2011 THEY USE A 555 INTEGRATED CHIP ON A PC BOARD WITH VARIOUS RESISTORS AND A ZENER DIODE TO NOT (SPOOF) BUT GENERATE THE EXACT SAME (ALL SYSTEMS GO) COMMAND TO THE ECU WHICH REQUIRES A FAIRLY COMPLICATED SIGNAL THAT IS CONTROLED BY THE 555 IC! IF I UNDERSTAND IT CORRECTLY THE ECU RECIEVES A START CAR COMMAND AND IF IT RECIEVING THE CORRECT SIGNAL FROM THE BCM ENABLES THE INJECTORS THE 555 CHIP VARIES THE VOLTAGE IF THAT VARIANCE ISNT SEEN IT SHUTS OFF THE INJECTORS AFTER 3 SECONDS! THATS WHAT I GET FOR BUYING SOMETHING MORE COMPLICATED THAN A SPACE SHUTTLE ...BUT I LOVE THESE DARN CARS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Jim Posted July 4, 2011 Report Share Posted July 4, 2011 Cancun Caddy.... Can yo please stop typing everything in ALL CAPS... It is hard to read... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cancuncaddy Posted July 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2011 yes i can i think im trying to look frustrated ....is it working? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted July 4, 2011 Report Share Posted July 4, 2011 I would go back to where you got the instructions for using the square wave generator and ask them where it goes on your car, specifically. We can help you fix things here but apparently no one that has used the square wave generator approach on a Cadillac has seen your thread. 50 MHz sounds far too high a frequency for anything on a car data line. Are you sure that it's not 50 kHz? Perhaps if you gave us a link to the web page that recommends the square wave generator we might be able to help you figure out what they are thinking. I looked in my personal "Wayback Machine" (one of the few whose hard drive didn't crash without a backup) and found some stuff. Here'a a link to a site that may have started all this 50Hz (NOT 50MegaHz) stuff. At it's end is a hand drawn schematic of the 555 pulse generator circuit. http://home.hiwaay.n...da1/passkey.htm Here's a link to a commercially available module that does the same thing: http://www.fieroaddi...om/passkey.html That site states: "The most common symptom of PASS-Key lockout is when the engine will repeatedly start and run for about 1 second and then shut off." That sounds worth paying attention to: CHANCES ARE THIS WILL NOT HELP OUR FRIEND CANCUNCADDY. It also provides a "generalized" schematic of how to hook it up: Regards, Warren There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted July 4, 2011 Report Share Posted July 4, 2011 yes i can i think im trying to look frustrated ....is it working? LIKE YOU CAN'T POSSIBLY IMAGINE!!! There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Jim Posted July 4, 2011 Report Share Posted July 4, 2011 yes i can i think im trying to look frustrated ....is it working? No...not at all... It just frustrates us who are trying to read it and help you. I have read every post... I haven't yet said anything, because I didn't have anything useful to help your problem. I just figured that if it was aggravating to me... and even making me hesitate to click on the post to see what was new... it might be also aggravating to the ones who are trying to help you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted July 4, 2011 Report Share Posted July 4, 2011 yes i can i think im trying to look frustrated ....is it working? No...not at all... It just frustrates us who are trying to read it and help you. I have read every post... I haven't yet said anything, because I didn't have anything useful to help your problem. I just figured that if it was aggravating to me... and even making me hesitate to click on the post to see what was new... it might be also aggravating to the ones who are trying to help you. Well Pilgrim, ya shoulda been a diplomat. Nevertheless I have to take issue with you. Not only does cancuncaddy appear frustrated, but it's frustrating thee and me (and a lot more I'll wager) as well. Regards, Warren There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cancuncaddy Posted July 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2011 ok thanks alot for the delving into the wayback machine cool hook the output of my whizbang contraption to the Blue wire of my vats-passkey module!!!! perfect sounds reasonable ummmm....wheres the vats passkey module on a 1996 cadillac eldorado or due to my build date 1997 if they are different!! but youre helping me get a lot closer!! thanks alot. i really appreciate a whole bunch!!! would some brain sturgeon please tell me where to hook this thing !!! if Bruces diagram is correct for my car theres a bunch of modules....in the doors in the trunk latch and so forth so its AFTER those modules theres a website that sell a pro model that apparently you wire into the IPC connector under the dash pad! so there is significant room for confusion !and gee am I but im confident with all these good heads working trying to help me ...soon we can get this straightened out and if so im sure this little project will help a lot of people who are in or soon will be in the same shoes ..as the electronics engineers told G:M that the vats system would experience failures after around seven years!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Jim Posted July 4, 2011 Report Share Posted July 4, 2011 Thank you... thank you ... Thank you... That was "SO MUCH" easier to read.... Now if we had just a tiny bit of punctuation and make separate ideas separate paragraphs... or at least separate LINES...It would be perfect... Sorry to be such a nit-picker... I am just trying to make it easier on everyone... If this had been just a couple of post, I would not even thought it worth mentioning, but since it has ran on for so long, I thought something needed to be said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cancuncaddy Posted July 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2011 thanks texas jim ...I think maybe my ecu I mean my brain is failing a little bit from 6 days of exhauhstive ...not making progress! I will try to better. honest. now back to the point at hand....dark blue wire to ecu where would that be exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Jim Posted July 4, 2011 Report Share Posted July 4, 2011 I did a web search on "passkey bypass" and found some of these sites. The Cadillac models that they work on are the OBD I cars (through the 1995 model year) and some models like the Escalade that are built on platforms such as the GMC truck. The OBD II Cadillac platforms, like the1996 Eldorado, aren't on the compatibility list. I think it's because they don't have a separate security module like they show in their schematics. You need to find the electrical problem in your PASS-Key II system. It's probably a break or a short in the part where you added the resistor in place of the contacts for the pellet in the key. -- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data -- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cancuncaddy Posted July 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2011 my granpa said son if somebodys talkin about ya their thinkin about ya! at least i have that going for me! no really, i dont mean to aggravate anyone and i certainly appreciate you all putting up with my punctuation errors i will try to compose myself and my messages a little better. but its tough, this is a particularly difficult and perplexing situation not to mention you guys are my only help, if i were back home (north carolina) i could quickly and easily rectify this situation ..because there are mechanics with access to a tech 2 nobody here has one and im just trying to figure this out the best i can with my limited knowledge of this system...once again sorry for the aggravation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cancuncaddy Posted July 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2011 I did a web search on "passkey bypass" and found some of these sites. The Cadillac models that they work on are the OBD I cars (through the 1995 model year) and some models like the Escalade that are built on platforms such as the GMC truck. The OBD II Cadillac platforms, like the1996 Eldorado, aren't on the compatibility list. I think it's because they don't have a separate security module like they show in their schematics. You need to find the electrical problem in your PASS-Key II system. It's probably a break or a short in the part where you added the resistor in place of the contacts for the pellet in the key. but i disconnected the resistor completely (as if the key werent in the ignition) and the symptpoms change dramatically ie. no starter enable....dashboard message.remove key wait 3 minutes. when i put it back after 3 minutes it cranks right up then shifter position lights flash and message on dash reads theft system problem starting disabled! a good question would be could the super rainy condition and excessive humidity cause all this stuff? its been sunny now for 3 days ....i think i will just charge up the battery and try again! ive been concentrating more on circumventing the problem than fixing it. assuming that the TDM was faulty but apparently in 96 they stopped using that system. maybe thats why i read they spiced their bypass into the IPC connector... i know its frustrating! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted July 5, 2011 Report Share Posted July 5, 2011 I would echo Jim_97_ETC's suggestion you closely examine the wiring you did three months ago with the "resistor trick." Now I don't have a Service Manual for your year, but I've been able to glean a few things from this discussion. First off, the PassKey II system disables the starter motor in order to prevent you from starting your car. Your engine won't even crank. This sounds like your problem. Sorry, I'm not gonna reread the whole thread. Just shoot me if I'm wrong. Secondly, the VATS system will allow you to crank the engine. It might even turn over and then run for a second. Then it will cease feeding fuel to your thirsty engine and immediately starve it to a stall. This does not sound like your problem. Your engine doesn't even crank. Recall I made a point of mentioning the site I linked to a few posts back said about its 50Hz generator module, "The most common symptom of PASS-Key lockout is when the engine will repeatedly start and run for about 1 second and then shut off." I suspect you are wasting your time with the pulse generator, but that's just me. Now on to something else: A poster ("BKL") at the other Cadillac site had a problem similar to yours a little over a year ago. While he did not start the thread, he finished it with the revelation that his difficulty had been caused by some chafed wires shorting (presumably) the data line to ground. Since the Data Link Connector (DLC) is readily available at your dash, you might want to use an ohmmeter and measure the line to see if there is a short to ground. OR, measure the voltage on the data line with the ignition on. I expect you would see *some* voltage there if there were no short to ground. Start reading that post around page four: http://www.cadillacf...g-start-up.html Attached is a pinout of the DLC from my 1998 Eldorado. It should be the same as yours. EDIT: I see you posted while I was busy typing this reply and your engine *DOES* crank. You can forget half of what I said... I just don't know which half. Your pick. 1998_DLC.doc There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cancuncaddy Posted July 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2011 thanks man youre a saint . and a very patient one at that. yes it cranks and ive read bunches of posts on this and other enthusiasts sites ,chevy, corvette gmc trucks the whole gamut of vats and pass-key related problems and it sounds like mine is right in there with them .i really hope it is or was a water related problem, it manifested itself while driving in a torrential downpour suddenly the shifter position lights started flashing then all sorts of wierd messages like speed reduced to 90 mph and other strange seemingly unrelated messages.and in the string of messages, theft system problem car may not restart. ive read of the pass key relearn procedure and tried it 3 days ago but the battery died midway into the third attempt! i think youre advice is right tomorrow i will start from scratch ,check connections,grounds,fuses,relays,disconnect my resistor pack, let it give me the wait 3 minutes warning ......connect the resistor and try it ...may the caddy gods be with me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cancuncaddy Posted July 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2011 wow what an archive ! i read the entire thread you mentioned and came across one post that said to check for water intrusion in the passenger side floorboard ....it seems there is a connector that isnt on the schematics and the if the carpet gets wet water can corrode and cause a short in the data circuit. well 6 months ago my heater core failed and well you know the symptoms! tomorrow i will address this issue and let you know how it goes .the symptoms this fellow described mirror my symptoms to the letter!! thanks for your terrific research!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted July 5, 2011 Report Share Posted July 5, 2011 thanks man youre a saint . and a very patient one at that. yes it cranks and ive read bunches of posts on this and other enthusiasts sites ,chevy, corvette gmc trucks the whole gamut of vats and pass-key related problems and it sounds like mine is right in there with them .i really hope it is or was a water related problem, it manifested itself while driving in a torrential downpour suddenly the shifter position lights started flashing then all sorts of wierd messages like speed reduced to 90 mph and other strange seemingly unrelated messages.and in the string of messages, theft system problem car may not restart. ive read of the pass key relearn procedure and tried it 3 days ago but the battery died midway into the third attempt! i think youre advice is right tomorrow i will start from scratch ,check connections,grounds,fuses,relays,disconnect my resistor pack, let it give me the wait 3 minutes warning ......connect the resistor and try it ...may the caddy gods be with me! Sometime between making my 1995 Eldoado and making my 1998 Eldorado, Cadillac chose to relocate the PCM from the passenger compartment to a location under the air cleaner where it lives happily with the EBTCM. The pair of them would be especially susceptible to a puddle soaking were it not for the thoughtfully provided rubber splash shield under the front bumper. You DO have a thoughtfully provided rubber splash shield under your front bumper, don't you? There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cancuncaddy Posted July 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2011 no i dont! uh oh, better really start from scratch tomorrow!!! as in pull the pcm and chech all that stuff its way to late for the traction control computer way wet way corroded way disconnected for many months without any noticable difference except no first gear which i lost a long time ago! at any rate i would strongly suspect water as my culprit and will rectify it tomorrow. thanks guys!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted July 5, 2011 Report Share Posted July 5, 2011 no i dont . . . . There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Jim Posted July 5, 2011 Report Share Posted July 5, 2011 ... tech 2 nobody here has one ... Every GM dealer has a Tech II. If the Cancun dealer doesn't have a working one, or if they have no one that can use it (i.e. no Goodwrench trained techs) that would explain why the service manager told you that they are not "authorized" to service your car. My feeling is that that Cancun dealer is not a full-fledged GM dealer. Is he on the island or in the village on the mainland? -- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data -- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Jim Posted July 5, 2011 Report Share Posted July 5, 2011 I did a web search on "passkey bypass" and found some of these sites. The Cadillac models that they work on are the OBD I cars (through the 1995 model year) and some models like the Escalade that are built on platforms such as the GMC truck. The OBD II Cadillac platforms, like the1996 Eldorado, aren't on the compatibility list. I think it's because they don't have a separate security module like they show in their schematics. You need to find the electrical problem in your PASS-Key II system. It's probably a break or a short in the part where you added the resistor in place of the contacts for the pellet in the key. but i disconnected the resistor completely (as if the key werent in the ignition) and the symptpoms change dramatically ie. no starter enable....dashboard message.remove key wait 3 minutes. when i put it back after 3 minutes it cranks right up then shifter position lights flash and message on dash reads theft system problem starting disabled! a good question would be could the super rainy condition and excessive humidity cause all this stuff? its been sunny now for 3 days ....i think i will just charge up the battery and try again! ive been concentrating more on circumventing the problem than fixing it. assuming that the TDM was faulty but apparently in 96 they stopped using that system. maybe thats why i read they spiced their bypass into the IPC connector... i know its frustrating! I know that we are up to four pages in this thread, but I addressed the situation in post #20: http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=39037&view=findpost&p=192094 If the resistor pellet (or the wires that are supposed to go to it) are shorted or there is an break in the circuit, the car will never start. I would check the wires where you put in the resistor. You don't need to pull out the PCM, but you might want to pull off the connector and blow it out, both connector side and PCM side, with an aerosol can intended for computer cleaning; they sell them at Radio Shack. Contact cleaner, also available from Radio Shack, might be helpful. A clean, dry connector with good contacts might be all you need. Make sure that you have an air cleaner element, too. If someone removed it for a "Texas Tune-Up" then water can come in from the area behind the left headlight through the air cleaner and douse the PCM. -- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data -- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cancuncaddy Posted July 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2011 thanks. i agree! but i think the bulb should appear a little dimmer dont ya think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cancuncaddy Posted July 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2011 thanks again you guys for youre really nice and concise help . and moral support! im going for the extra large can of contact cleaner and try to straighten this out. i will let you know how it goes!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Jim Posted July 5, 2011 Report Share Posted July 5, 2011 thanks. i agree! but i think the bulb should appear a little dimmer dont ya think? The headlight assembly itself is pretty well sealed. If water gets into a headlight or taillight you need to disassemble it and fix it, replacing any damaged parts or gaskets.The air path to the fuel injection is through the grille, then to the left (facing the front of the car) of the radiator behind the headlight assembly, to an aperture back above the left front fender well to a port into the air filter. -- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data -- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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