JohnnyG Posted August 28, 2011 Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 Since we ended up discussing the Volt, and how its batteries were developed, I just wanted to add this jewel that I happened across today. Sorry for not being able to give credit for the artical, my "back" button on my browser forgot where to go: "The lithium battery for GM’s [GM] Chevy Volt is being manufactured in South Korea. Making it in the U.S. wasn’t feasible: rechargeable battery manufacturing left the US long ago. Some efforts are being made to resurrect rechargeable battery manufacture in the U.S., such as the GE-backed [GE] A123Systems, but it’s difficult to go it alone when much of the expertise is now in Asia." This article mainly focused on why the US economy is in the dump, and was titled "Why the Kindle can't be made in the USA" or something similar. The main thrust of the article explained the shortsightedness of typical corporate (and govt. policy) economics which place more emphasis on short term cost cutting rather than long term sustainability in manufacturing. Never underestimate the amount of a persons greed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike5514 Posted August 29, 2011 Report Share Posted August 29, 2011 Our u.s. gov funds things they funded the moon program, the iraq war the interstate highway system and the hoover dam. depending on your point of view some of these things are good and some bad. The point here is That this is what governments do. Fund things! We have use oil for over 100 years we are dependent on imported oil mostly from canada it is becoming a national security risk. We have to find a alternate source and make it here! When the auto came on the scene there were people that said I will never give up my horse I cant imagine the horse poop today if we all had horses. Things change Im sure we will be able to drive the type of car we like and the style of light bulb we prefer Im 73 so I wont be around to see a lot of this happen but the people of the future might be on cars that float or on superconductive highways. There will be bumps on the way but that is Progress Dont gross about things that may or may not happen dont become a bitter old man look around It aint that bad.MIKE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyG Posted August 29, 2011 Report Share Posted August 29, 2011 Things change Im sure we will be able to drive the type of car we like and the style of light bulb we prefer Actually, except for Texas (they hope), you cannot buy the kind of lightbulb you like. Well, to be honest, I haven't tried to buy a 150W incandescent lightbulb lately, but I understand that they have mostly been removed from store shelves. The point of my post was to show that short term profits have taken priority over employment in THIS country. The unempoyment problem won't be solved unless corporate decision makers change their practices. The truly unfortunate thing is, we have already been taught this lesson by Henry Ford somewhere around 1909. Henry intentionally had the fabric for his cars interior developed using soy beans as a raw material. His reasoning was simple. If farmers can grow soy beans, and Ford buys them, the farmer MIGHT be able to come up with the $600.00 to buy a car from him. You pretty much need to be making a living wage in order to buy anything, and a lot of people can't do that right now, regardless of where the product is being made. Never underestimate the amount of a persons greed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike5514 Posted August 30, 2011 Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 JohnnyG Good point Ford realized that you had to have buyers and people without money are not buyers. I believe he started the 8 dollar day not because he was a benevolent guy but because other companies would follow and increase wages allowing more workers/people to become buyers of his car. The most brilliant part of the 8 dollar day was you had to be there 1 year to collect, worker turn over was atrocious firings, sickness, death, just plain worn out kept most workers from completing a year. Light bulbs Im still sure I can get incandescent bulbs from where Im sitting delivered to my house. With 77% of workers in Texas making minimum wage some of them will be unable to buy any style bulb. I agree that a living wage is necessary not only to buy things but to have a robust economy. Dollars in circulation are great engines for this ride. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleoletot Posted September 5, 2011 Report Share Posted September 5, 2011 I have been following this discussion with interest and just wish to add a couple thoughts; electical powered cars are sort of ok provided you don't need to use headlamps,heaters/aircom,wipers,radios,phones and any other electrical device whilst driving. Just try leaving your headlamps,dvd player and heater fan on without the engine running and see how quickly the battery goes flat, this is going to make a big difference to the mileage on a full charge of your electric car. Another problem is the battery life presently predicted to be five to six years and then you are faced with an eye watering bill for new batteries but all the time between new and this time frame the cells will continue to degrade meaning more frequent less effective charging is required. So your car is four years old and and you have taken it to the airport where you leave it for two weeks for a holiday, how do you jump start it on your return? You have to put petrol in it and use it like any other oil powered car. Finally, over here we are now paying ten dollars a gallon for petrol and even more for diesel of which 65% is tax, where are our wonderful leaders going to get that revenue back from? I bet we will not be having electric bills we can afford any more!!!! uk tot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyG Posted September 5, 2011 Report Share Posted September 5, 2011 Another problem is the battery life presently predicted to be five to six years and then you are faced with an eye watering bill for new batteries but all the time between new and this time frame the cells will continue to degrade meaning more frequent less effective charging is required.So your car is four years old and and you have taken it to the airport where you leave it for two weeks for a holiday, how do you jump start it on your return? You have to put petrol in it and use it like any other oil powered car. Finally, over here we are now paying ten dollars a gallon for petrol and even more for diesel of which 65% is tax, where are our wonderful leaders going to get that revenue back from? I suspect that battery life in the Volt would be better than that of the Prius, given the facts that the Prius contains NiMH, and the Volt a Polymer Lithium rechargable.....well at least I'd like to think that 15 years of research paid for by my tax dollars would allow the country of South Korea to make a decent product. Researching a little while looking for charger prices, I learned that the batteries in the Volt are never discharged below 15%, nor charged to more that 85% of their capacity which should further extend battey life. BUT, GM, as always, has failed to point out any advantage of this to the motoring (buying) public. I hate to get into this part of the discussion, but the 65% tax on gasoline pays for a LOT of things in UK. I've heard things about "free healthcare" and "the public dole", which is exactly the things that our current president would like to "buy" for us. So you're saying that it's not worth it? At any rate, I'm glad you found the discussion interesting, even though I'm guilty of hijacking the topic. Never underestimate the amount of a persons greed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Jim Posted September 5, 2011 Report Share Posted September 5, 2011 I love these discussions where we sometimes talk about something other than how to fix a broke car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted September 6, 2011 Report Share Posted September 6, 2011 . . . Finally, over here we are now paying ten dollars a gallon for petrol and even more for diesel of which 65% is tax, where are our wonderful leaders going to get that revenue back from? I bet we will not be having electric bills we can afford any more!!!! uk tot We too have been enjoying wonderful leadership here in The U.S. Thanks for pointing out what we have to look forward to. Regards, Warren There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAUL T Posted September 13, 2011 Report Share Posted September 13, 2011 My take on the economy? Lower gas prices to under $2 a gallon and watch the money start circulating to other things beside gas. Take the stimulus money and instead of give it to the banks, give it to the consumer with specific instructions/restrictions to pay their bank loans off. That gets the banks more money and the consumer out of debt. On Social Security, get all the government hands out of the cookie jar and take all the money and interest made from SS payments and apply it to where it should be. On jobs, charge tarrifs on overseas products to make them competitive to our labor costs so factories and manufacturing will come back to us, or send all the Unions over there to get their wages in line with ours. Yes prices will go up a little but with all the extra money consumers will have from lower gas prices and not having any bank debt they could afford it. Problems solved? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimD Posted September 13, 2011 Report Share Posted September 13, 2011 My take on the economy? Lower gas prices to under $2 a gallon.... How? Jim Drive your car. Use your cell phone. CHOOSE ONE ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted September 13, 2011 Report Share Posted September 13, 2011 . . . On jobs, charge tarrifs on overseas products to make them competitive to our labor costs . . . A while back Senator Smoot and Congressman Hawley tried that. The Smoot–Hawley Tariff Act of 1930, IIRC, plunged us into a worldwide depression. Maybe you'll pardon me if I don't quite warm up to that tactic. . . . or send all the Unions over there to get their wages in line with ours . . . Instead of punishing foreign nations for offering an enticing home to our corporations, why not simply stop punishing our corporations to such an extent that they are financially compelled to flee? As the saying goes, money travels where it's treated best. Do we have to have only the second highest corporate tax rates in the entire known universe? Why not pick up the gauntlet and be the first? I mean after all, this is America we're talking about! When N.Y.C. had the best welfare benefits in the country, folk flocked there. Quelle surprise! What would happen if the U.S. had the most favorable corporate tax structure in the world? Would foreign corporations flock HERE? You bet they would. There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyG Posted September 15, 2011 Report Share Posted September 15, 2011 As the saying goes, money travels where it's treated best. Warren, I think this saying needs to be changed to fit today's economic situation. It should read more like "money travels to where it will make the most profit". US companies are not treated that badly by the tax code, considering that GE didn't pay ANY corporate taxes for 2010. They are going overseas for cheap labor and higher profits....period. The latest take I have heard on BO's new jobs plan: "The most optimistic estimates on the number of jobs created, will cost the American taxpayer about $200,000.00 PER JOB!" Never underestimate the amount of a persons greed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted September 16, 2011 Report Share Posted September 16, 2011 As the saying goes, money travels where it's treated best. Warren, I think this saying needs to be changed to fit today's economic situation. It should read more like "money travels to where it will make the most profit". US companies are not treated that badly by the tax code, considering that GE didn't pay ANY corporate taxes for 2010. They are going overseas for cheap labor and higher profits....period. The latest take I have heard on BO's new jobs plan: "The most optimistic estimates on the number of jobs created, will cost the American taxpayer about $200,000.00 PER JOB!" "Where it's treated best" vs. "where it will make the most profit" is, I think, pretty much a distinction without a difference. GE is a special case, receiving very special government treatment in view of its imminent collapse and, perhaps, special friendship with the White House. Smaller, less "connected" corporations without armies of lobbyists pay the second highest corporate income taxes in the world community. You're sure right about the cost/job. Various folk have divided the stimulus cost by the number of jobs created and come up with figures between $175K-$500K per job created. Regardless of how one twists the numbers though, the results are pretty much indefensible. I don't see much hope in repeating this experiment (see the popular definition of "insanity"). HOPE IS NOT A STRATEGY!! Regards, Warren There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike5514 Posted September 18, 2011 Report Share Posted September 18, 2011 Think of job creation as sowing seeds you start with one job it circulates money that in turn creates another those two jobs circulates more money more jobs and so on. Step back a bit and just think. A couple guys start a business buy a building, machinery inventory etc invest maybe 5 million initial result 5 jobs! Who bad you say! Well some time in the future that 5 mill might create 500 jobs. Money in circulation creates jobs brings in revenue to local,state and federal governments which enhances the overall level of prosperity. I was born during the great depression I was told stories my grand mother got her savings account money from the bank 1 year after the bank shut their doors and she only got back 10 cents on the dollar. That bank is in business today. If that scenario were to happen today things would be extremely worse. I do believe that certain people are trying to help the people in this country regain that prosperity but with all the hate I see out there it might be a impossible task.Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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