brmurph Posted February 10, 2004 Report Share Posted February 10, 2004 I was getting a clunk from the right rear of my car. Dealer says that the right rear coil spring is broke and suggests that I replace the left rear as well at $265.00 per side. Any suggestions? Do I need to replace them in pairs or just the one that is broke? Also anyone else had this problem? I have never heard of a coil spring breaking before. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Concours Posted February 10, 2004 Report Share Posted February 10, 2004 Have you been hauling heavy stuff in your trunk? How many miles on your car? Anything can break, but I've never heard of a coil spring breaking. Jeff 98 Concours 90 Seville 04 Corvette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brmurph Posted February 10, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2004 No heavy stuff in the trunk, not sure why the spring broke. The dealer seemed surprised as well. He thought maybe an accident but could not find any other evidence of one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Concours Posted February 10, 2004 Report Share Posted February 10, 2004 I'd look at both rear springs and confirm it really is broken. I'd then only replace the broken one. That price seems kind of high for just a spring replacement, but then again, I've never had to replace one. Jeff 98 Concours 90 Seville 04 Corvette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brmurph Posted February 10, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2004 I have an extended (third party) warranty and of course they only want to pay for the spring that is broken. Thats OK with me as long as not replacing the other one doesn't cause any problems like being uneven. I think I will replace just the one for now and if I notice any problems I will have the other side replaced later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted February 10, 2004 Report Share Posted February 10, 2004 I think with a car that new, and with a rear spring, you should be fine replacing just the one. The dealer is recommending you replace both because the new spring may have a slightly different response to a bump vs. the older one, and they probably want to minimize that. But the car is only 6 years old, and I don't believe that's enough time for a spring to really sag. If this was a classic, I'd certainly recommend replacing both, because the new spring would react very differently than its much older counterpart. Unless there's a mechanical reason to replace both, I think you're safe with just the one. Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loucar1 Posted February 11, 2004 Report Share Posted February 11, 2004 Coil springs are sold in pairs and should be matched when installed Lou 94 Seville STS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick94 Posted February 11, 2004 Report Share Posted February 11, 2004 Conventional wisdom says always replace springs in axle pairs. I'd get a second opinion from a tire / suspension place you trust. They should be able to show you the broken spring... if it's really broken, it should be obvious. I don't know how this would work with your warranty, but try some prices from an auto store, or www.gmotors.com . Perhaps you can try this track with the insurance: It would be cheaper to replace them both at the same time, as opposed to you coming back a second time for the other! :-) On the other hand, if just one spring is replaced with an exact replacement, it will probably be fine. But if it was my 6 year old Caddy that I plan to keep for several more years, I'd try to replace both, along with the rubber spring isolators. My '94 STS (same suspension as yours), the left rear sags about 3/4 inch compared to the right... both original springs. Only I notice, but it bugs me. Someday, I'll get around to replacing them both... LOL Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timothyr Posted February 11, 2004 Report Share Posted February 11, 2004 From experience I would replace in pairs....particularly in the rear with the load leveling suspension. On one of my other cars (benz w/hydraulic rear shocks similar to the caddys air system) I had a spring give way, and was talked into replacing just one...I could not see a problem with the idea until I got the car back, at 60k/miles I did not think there would be enough wear on the original spring to make a noticable difference....I was wrong, the new side sat higher, rode a little firmer, and the overall stablility of the car was not as balanced, swapped the other side and all got better. Just my $.02 t Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brmurph Posted February 12, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2004 Turns out the dealer was able to get just one spring (he had to order it) and is going to install it that way per my instructions. Hope that was not a mistake (after reading some of the replies). I should get the car back in a day or two and will let you all know how it rides with just one new spring. Thanks for the input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted February 13, 2004 Report Share Posted February 13, 2004 After you get the car back, verify that the ride height is equal from side to side. If it isn't, then poossibly you need a new spring on theother side. If the ride height is the same from side to side, forgetaboutit! Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinW Posted February 13, 2004 Report Share Posted February 13, 2004 The standing height may decrease slightly after the new spring breaks-in. Since the rear height is determined by the rear wheel position sensors (in the case of a '98 Concours), I wonder if the CVRSS computer averages the left/right readings or just activates the ELC compressor until the "lowest" reading is above the programmed threshold. ___________________________________________________ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brmurph Posted February 16, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 Well I got the car back from the dealer with just the one (left rear) spring replaced. Kind of interesting becase the ride is back to normal which is actually a little worse then when the spring was broke. I will try to explain. Before the spring broke I had some wheel hop (or fishtailing) around coners when I hit a small bump, with the broken spring no wheel hop. With the new spring the wheel hop is back. I have two questions one is does anyone else get this wheel hop around corners ( especially you 97-99 Concours owners) and second is should I have done an alignment after the spring replacement and if so would a two wheel alignment be OK or do I need a 4 wheel alignment? The dealer suggested the 4 wheel alignment but the warranty company would not pay for it, I figured that ment it is not needed since they have paid for alignments in the past. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted February 16, 2004 Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 Well I got the car back from the dealer with just the one (left rear) spring replaced. Kind of interesting becase the ride is back to normal which is actually a little worse then when the spring was broke. I will try to explain. Before the spring broke I had some wheel hop (or fishtailing) around coners when I hit a small bump, with the broken spring no wheel hop. With the new spring the wheel hop is back.I have two questions one is does anyone else get this wheel hop around corners ( especially you 97-99 Concours owners) and second is should I have done an alignment after the spring replacement and if so would a two wheel alignment be OK or do I need a 4 wheel alignment? The dealer suggested the 4 wheel alignment but the warranty company would not pay for it, I figured that ment it is not needed since they have paid for alignments in the past. Thanks. FWIW, my '97 Deville has no wheel hop problems, never has. I will let someone else answer the alignment question but my gut feeling is you probably should and really only need to do the rear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDK Posted February 16, 2004 Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 I thought the ride control system would compensate for an differance in spring tension? Doesn't the air compressor and bleed valves change in the pressure rear struts until the ride indicator at each wheel is level? The fishtailing and wheel hop noted before the sping broke and after it was fixed - may have caused the broken spring. Where is Guru when we need him? Stuck in the Old Board...? Add power to leave problems behind. Most braking is just - poor planning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinW Posted February 16, 2004 Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 I thought the ride control system would compensate for an differance in spring tension? Doesn't the air compressor and bleed valves change in the pressure rear struts until the ride indicator at each wheel is level? AFAIK, the CVRSS is an open loop system. In other words, it does not monitor response and make adjustments, just commands a pre-set damping level according to a given set of inputs. The Electronic Level Control compressor adjusts the rear spring rate (via air pressure) to maintain a constant ride height. The damping rate is independent of the air pressure in the rear shocks. I think the CVRSS was designed to maintain a minimum static damping level to reduce impact harshness. As such, it is sensitive to tire design, inflation levels, ride height, etc.. How much mileage is on your '98 Concours? Any RSS codes? ___________________________________________________ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brmurph Posted February 16, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 I have about 65000 Miles on it no codes are set. Also I forgot to mention, even though I only replaced one spring the height seems be equal on both sides. If I messure the height from the outside of the body (any trim) the side with the new spring (left side) actually messures 1/4" lower then the right. If I measure under the car from the frame there is no difference in height at all. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinW Posted February 16, 2004 Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 What tires are installed? Which cold inflation pressures have you tried? Is the ride height towards the upper or lower acceptable limit? ___________________________________________________ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brmurph Posted February 17, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 I have the Michelin Pilots sport A/S tires. I have tried from about 30 - 40 PSI in the front and 25 - 32 PSI in the rear. The lower the tire pressure the less wheel hop/fishtail I seem to get but the good folks at Discount tire said I was ruining the tires by keeping to little pressure in them and even at the lower pressure the hop was still there. The trim height seems good but I will admit I have not done the measurements per the manual (factory manual). I looked at it quickly but the way they do there measuring seemed a little confusing to me. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinW Posted February 17, 2004 Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 I have the Michelin Pilots sport A/S tires. I have tried from about 30 - 40 PSI in the front and 25 - 32 PSI in the rear. The lower the tire pressure the less wheel hop/fishtail I seem to get but the good folks at Discount tire said I was ruining the tires by keeping to little pressure in them and even at the lower pressure the hop was still there. I suspect those sidewalls have a higher rate than the OEM tires. You could experiment with 32-44 psi in the rear to see if you can get far enough from the suspension's natural frequency. It'd be great if we could reprogram the RSS computer! Anyone have a spare kicking about? ___________________________________________________ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brmurph Posted February 17, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 You should be able to replace a single spring with no problems. They are closely matched at the manufacturing process and are considered interchangeable. I think the idea of replacing them in matched pairs comes from the "old days" when the springs were kind of all over the map for rate and length and they were measured and matched for installation. That hasn't been required for many years....LOLAre you sure the strut is working on the left rear....I mean the damping?? Even though no codes are setting it sounds like that strut (or one of the rears) is not damping . If you bounce the corners of the car can you sense any lack of damping in the left rear?? A broken spring is very rare so it would make you suspect that something happened to that corner at some point and/or the strut is not damping correctly. I would be very inclined to replace that strut if a spring broke on it..... The RSS computer just looks for the presence of the strut and the electrical load of the force motor inside. It is open loop in that it commands a damping position for the metering orifice. It can't close loop on the actual position or actual damping response of the strut. Wheel hop in a corner like you describe is pretty unusual and definitely not normal if you are seeing it frequently. It might be common on a bumpy , dirt road with the ripples that often form in corners due to the natural frequency of the car suspensions going over the road but shouldn't happen in simple bumpy corners. No I am not sure that the strut (is it a strut or shock in the rear?) is working correctly, is there a better way to test then just bounce the car by hand? I have bounced cars with leaf springs and no shocks in the past and comparatively speeking I would say it seems to be damping OK, the left and right feal about the same. Are the rear struts much different then regular air shocks? I kind of figured that if they hold air (they don't seem to be leaking) that they are probably working but I could be wrong. Just to clarify what I mean by wheel hop, it feels just like my 75 Pinto did with a solid rear axle around corners (except not nearly as bad), it corners great until you hit the smallest bump then it feels like the tire skips and thats when I feel the fishtailing. I would agree that this seems strange expecially with independent suspension. Something must have caused that spring to break, maybe it is the strut. This happen's on every corner with moderate speed and a bump. Also the car has never bottomed out in the rear even with a full load. Thanks for the help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted February 17, 2004 Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 Yes, they're air shocks in the back. It sounds to me like maybe you have a loose suspension component (but it would seem that would have been noticed during the spring install) or bad bushings. Perhaps something didn't get fully tightened or aligned after the work? I think you mentioned that you're only noticing the wheel hopping now that you have the car back? They say not to torque everything down until the car is at ride height. Maybe they forgot to do that after the alignment? I have a slightly similar sensation in mine, although it's not as bad as what you're experiencing. I think mine is due to worn bushings at the rear knuckle or at the lower control arm to frame joint. Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brmurph Posted February 17, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 Actualy the hop was gone during the time the spring was broke, at least thats what I think (I do not know when the spring broke for sure). The hop has always been there since I got the car 30000 miles ago, I thought it was normal for this model, it mysteriously went away about 6 weeks ago (thats when I think the spring broke) then the hop came back after the spring was replaced. At this point it is not a critical problem it would be nice to fix if I can, also seems like something must have caused that spring to break. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted February 17, 2004 Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 So bill, they're actually referred to by GM as STRUTS in the back of our 93-97 Sevilles/Eldorado/Devilles? Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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