Wheel Bearings

[Rich]

My Eldorado was in the shop recently (see post for compressor failure) and while on the lift, the dealer diagnosed a bad wheel bearing on the front driver side. He told me that there was a little bit of play when moving the wheel from side to side. I think I'm pretty sensitive regarding my car's responsiveness to my inputs, maybe too sensitive I'm told, but I have not noticed anything at all to alert me to any kind of problem. Further, the tires are wearing evenly, very very evenly in fact. There are no odd noises when turning, even on full lock. What might I notice if my wheel bearings were going bad? And what are the risks of not having the wheel bearings replaced now if they are bad? As a side note, the dealer wants $600 to replace this one front wheel bearing.

Happy Thanksgiving.

[scott y]

Well one of the classic symptoms of bearing failure is the audible...I don't know if that applies to early stages,a steady groan or grinding while under power. Left alone, it will eventually seize,get a second opinion if in doubt.

[Cadillac Jim]

GM protocol does not allow replacing wheel bearings; you are looking at a $500 repair here. They will sell you a hub, including brake disk. Go elsewhere, and have them torque your wheel bearings. That's probably all it needs.

[Rich]

Jim, do you mean that the dealer repair will include not only the hub bearing, but a brake rotor as well? My four brake rotors were replaced about two years (22K miles) ago. Sounds like another ripoff to me. I'm beginning to question my wisdom (idiocy) of having only Cadillac dealers service my cars. Maybe I'll have a Mavis tire shop look at this. Can I request that they torque both of my front wheel bearings? Is this a standard procedure, or will they give me a strange look when I make this request? I've never heard of this before.

[winterset]

I am having both my wheel hubs replaced on my 02 Chevy Venture with ~85k. The van sounded like a propeller plane was flying overhead from 5mph+. when grabbing the tire at the top & bottom, there was a slight but solid movement of what I can only describe as about 20 sheets of paper. other signs might be very fine silver powder on the wheels & around the hubs. If you have good ears, you should listen for a growl coming from the front end on a nice smooth road. when you turn the wheel just slightly, it will change pitch or go away a little. BTW, I was able to get both hubs with the ABS sensor on ebay new for $74 shipped. they look exactly like the originals. the dealer wanted $379 each.

[Cadillac Jim]

Rich - I'm not sure whether they replace the brake rotor or not, but this was pulled on me once. I was told that a wheel bearing was loose and brought in and shown the car on the rack. The tech wrenched the front wheel which banged dramatically, showing a slack that I was absolutely certain that it did not have on the road. I waved my hand and said to replace the wheel bearing. An hour or so later, I was presented with a bill for $500 that said my hub had been replaced. Winterset's price is about right, with installation cost added.

I would have the hub looked at ASAP by a second repair service, either a reliable independent or a chain such as Goodyear Auto Centers or Pep Boys Service Centers or such. If the hub nut was backed off (installation specs usually call for something like 15 lb-ft torque and back of up to half a flat on the nut to get the Cotter key through) the wheel bearing will ruin quickly. If they do determine that you need a wheel bearing, ask to find out whether they change just the bearing or the whole hub.

I grew up in the car business and I know when a hub nut has been backed off, but was willing to allow a wheel bearing replacement, which in my world is a machine shop job involving pressing out a bearing and pressing a new bearing into the hub. But press-in, press-out jobs on assemblies and such are not approved Goodwrench procedures, probably because of warranty and safety issues with manual repairs and rebuilding. But, even though I know that, it didn't occur to me that I would be told that I needed a wheel bearing and sold a hub.

A dealer is not the best place to maintain an old car. That's not what they are set up for, and not what the techs are trained for, and not what the techs like to do. Once the warranty is gone, you should consider what would be the best repair service for each repair independently. I have had dealers tell me to go elsewhere for exhaust system work, for example, because the price, quality, and warranty can be all met or exceeded at a good chain such as Midas or Meineke, especially the price. But other repairs carry a magnificent Goodwrench warranty such as lifetime with labor, and thus are a good option of you plan to keep the car.

[winterset]

Not sure why, but none of the new hubs come with the 3 bolts needed to install it to the car. These were a dealer part that cost $4.79 each. I wouldn't want the old 3 bolts re-used since they get a little beat up taking them out - making them difficult/impossible to get tight / torqued upon installation of the new part.

[WarrenJ]

Mine made a "groaning" noise at highway speeds. No steering difficulties. When I held the old one in my hands, I could barely move it. $300.00 for the part and $150.00 labor at the local garage. I replaced the other side about a month later just to be safe.

[Ranger]

the dealer diagnosed a bad wheel bearing on the front driver side. He told me that there was a little bit of play when moving the wheel from side to side.

Side to side play when grasping the wheel at 3:00 and 9:00 is a tie rod, not wheel bearings. Wheel bearing play is when you grasp it at 12:00 and 6:00 and have play.

What might I notice if my wheel bearings were going bad? And what are the risks of not having the wheel bearings replaced now if they are bad?

Eventually you'll start to hear a groan at certain speed and it will get louder when you turn and load that bearing and get quieter when you turn the other way and unload that bearing. Do a series of S turns like a NASCAR driver warming his tires. If it is bad enough to hear, you'll hear it growl louder as you turn and load the bad bearing and quiet down as you turn the other way and unload it. No need to panic. It will take a long time before it seizes and will slowly get louder and louder. Seizure is the worst case scenario and you'd have to be deaf or stupid to get to that point (deaf enough not to hear it or stupid enough to ignore it).

[Rich]

Thanks for the tips Ranger. I'll try the S turn test on Monday before I bring it somewhere for a second opinion. Will post the outcome.

[CarlaValentine]

600$ for a wheel hub replacement sounds insane to me! When I had to replace mine a year ago the part cost me just over 100$ at Advance Auto (OEM part, not aftermarket) and my brother and I did the job ourselves. It wasn't a tough nor time consuming job. If you do need yours replaced I would DEFINITELY take it somewhere else.

As a side note, I reused the 3 bolts on mine without an issue. If you spray some penetrating oil on them they should come out fairly easy. Just be sure that you clean any residue of the oil off before re-inserting them so that your torque is unaffected.

[MAC]

Wheel bearing/hub is a fairly easy job. I would either take it to a reputable non-dealer garage or do it myself, which I have done in the past. $600 is insane!

[winterset]

600$ for a wheel hub replacement sounds insane to me! When I had to replace mine a year ago the part cost me just over 100$ at Advance Auto (OEM part, not aftermarket) and my brother and I did the job ourselves. It wasn't a tough nor time consuming job. If you do need yours replaced I would DEFINITELY take it somewhere else.

As a side note, I reused the 3 bolts on mine without an issue. If you spray some penetrating oil on them they should come out fairly easy. Just be sure that you clean any residue of the oil off before re-inserting them so that your torque is unaffected.

Rumor is there are only 1 or 2 manufactures of rotors in the world. I found they can be found for as little as $20 each (OEM = aftermarket 100%). I would definately replace both hubs, and throw a new set of rotors, and pads on.

Those bolts on my Chevy were a PITA, and the head got a little chewed up taking them off, & was afraid it wouldn't be able to torqued correctly.

compared the new hub to the old before the other side was replaced & the new is completely solid on the hub. the old definately has a very slight play at 12&6 - that can almost be dismissed as tight - to someone that doesn't have much experience with this.

[KHE]

The bearing cannot be replaced independently of the hub - the bearing is integral to the hub. Ranger outlined the procedure to test the bearing. If you can't hear any noise, the bearing is likely fine.

[Rich]

I performed the S turn test this morning and couldn't detect any noise whatsoever. I listened for any slight changes when turning from left to right back and forth. There is no obvious noise that I can hear. Also rode along with the windows open at about 40 MPH but I couldn't hear anything then either. So I drove over to a local Mavis repair shop that I use for wheel alignments and spoke with the manager on the subject. He suggested that the bearing could be bad but not yet bad enough to hear. He quoted me $450 to replace both front hub and bearing assemblies with aftermarket parts. The same job using OEM parts would be about $900, or double the cost. Either way it's more reasonable than having the dealer perform the job. The Mavis rep assured me that the aftermarket parts had to conform to factory standards and are all he typically uses, but I've always used only OEM parts on my cars. I wonder if there is any difference in the quality of the components to justify the price difference. Anyway, at this point, I don't think I'll have anything done until I'm convinced that something is in fact wrong.

[BodybyFisher]

Someone is BSing you, if you did the S turn and did not hear anything, you dont have a wheel hub bearing problem.

A hub bearing is about $75, and its an easy job,

It sounds like a tie rod as noted by someone else

You know what, FORGET ABOUT IT, until you hear it on an S turn, or you have vibration....

By the way MAVIS, STAY AWAY, they dont know what they are talking about, the HUB BEARING is an assembly that contains BOTH the hub AND the bearing, here is a photo, the hub bearing is sitting on the floor with the wire coming off if it

[Cadillac Jim]

Why not jack the car up, put it in neutral, rock and spin the wheels and otherwise manipulate them yourself?