Don't let the car you sold come back to haunt you

[Marika]

North Jersey Bergen Record

Don't let the car you sold come back to haunt you

Sunday, September 19, 2004

By JOHN CICHOWSKI

Marika Buchberger finally "moved up" last year. After driving her rusty 1983 Chevy for nearly 200,000 miles, the Garfield woman unloaded it for a classier, more dependable 1992 Cadillac. She even got some money for the old relic, thanks to friends who run an auto body shop. They let the jalopy sit in their lot with a "For sale" sign for two months until somebody agreed to pay $200 for it.

Marika was thrilled - until Englewood police called her 11 months later.

"They said 'my Chevy' had been abandoned in their town, and they wanted me to come pick it up," she recalled.

Untraceable license plates were on the car, which had been impounded. Daily charges were mounting. If the police could prove Marika still legally owned the old car, she could have been assessed more than the sales price.

Welcome to the Garden State title trap.

"Cops put me through hell to prove the car wasn't mine anymore," she said. "They wanted to know who the buyer was."

Marika remembers seeing the buyer sign the title after she signed it and turned it over to him. But unfortunately, her memory of his identity is vague at best.

This is understandable, even for somebody such as myself, who - oddly - can recall the year, make, and model of every car I have sold for cash. Odder still is my memory of every single buyer. Curiously, each had exactly the same name: Guy With Cash.

Not surprisingly, Marika sold her old Chevy to Guy, too. In her case, however, Guy apparently never registered the vehicle. He must have put some phony plates on the car and driven it illegally for nearly a year. Obviously, he never paid for a title or plates or liability insurance either.

In other words, Marika's once-faithful chariot had become a rolling time bomb. If it had become involved in an accident and Guy had fled undetected, his victims would have had to rely on a state fund for reimbursement, or they would have sought restitution from the last owner of record. If this hypothetical accident was serious enough, the last owner would likely be required to hire a lawyer.

"What do I have to do - take the buyer by the hand to the Motor Vehicle Commission and make sure he titles the car?" asked a frustrated Marika.

Actually, if a seller wants to avoid legal hassles, that's a pretty good strategy, although there are other methods.

Lt. Vincent DeRienzo, who runs the Bergen County Police Traffic Safety Division, suggests that sellers make copies of signed titles before completing sales transactions. Frequently, however, a buyer will balk at this condition. Sometimes he'll refuse because he thinks he can resell the car for a quick profit and would rather not endure the expense of obtaining a new title showing his name as the latest buyer.

This practice, called "jumping title," is illegal. Allow it at your peril because it opens the door to still more trouble.

At the very least, get the name and address of the buyer and record it someplace.

In Marika's case, she had witnesses - her body shop friends -and she had retained the vanity plates, which she legally transferred to the Cadillac.

"People sometimes get in the most trouble when they let the buyer drive off with the old plates," said Washington Township Police Chief William Cicchetti. "The buyer says he'll return the plates in a day or two after he gets the car home, but you never see him again."

You would not want to be the seller in such a transaction, especially after your old plates are pried from a getaway car in a bank robbery-shootout or from the bottom of a highway pileup involving multiple fatalities.

Police say plates should always be returned to the state Motor Vehicle Commission.

"Make sure you get a receipt," DeRienzo warned.

One title trap escapee has her own suggestion: "There should be a foolproof way for MVC to know that a seller has sold her vehicle without having to rely on the buyer reporting it," said Marika.

No kidding.

A few years ago, the New Jersey Traffic Officers Association recommended a three-part auto title - one to be kept by the buyer and two for the seller. The seller then would be required to file one of his parts with the Motor Vehicle Commission.

"That way, the seller would be able to prove that he sold his vehicle," said Cicchetti, the association's first vice president.

But the idea went nowhere because MVC, then called the Motor Vehicle Division, balked at the expense of creating new files. The goal of the newly organized agency, however, is to eliminate such glitches. It is considering a bill sponsored by Assemblyman Eric Munoz, R-Union, which would require owners to notify the agency when they sell their cars.

The bill could use a little work, though, said MVC spokesman Gordon Deal.

"An administrative undertaking like this would require an educational component so that sellers knew enough to report vehicle sales," Deal said. "And it would have to be funded. There are hundreds of legislative mandates that never get carried out because there's no money provided to do them. And it's especially hard to add new reforms when your budget is cut, the way ours was."

True enough. But besides the obvious benefits to those who are innocently snagged in a title trap, reform could create some savings and hidden revenue, too.

"The state would likely get the sales tax revenue from auto purchases, MVC could get its license plate and title fees, and new, legal owners would have to pay liability insurance premiums," said DeRienzo.

"And police wouldn't have to spend so much of their time tracking down rightful owners," said Marika.

E-mail: cichowski@northjersey.com

Copyright © 2004 North Jersey Media Group Inc.

[Bob D]

California has a form that the seller is required to fill out and submit in person or by mail to the DMV, to complete the transaction and ultamitley title transfer. I've used it many, many times and only had one incident in 30+ years. I simply reminded them, (with a copy) that they already had the necessary info. Problem gone. Yeah, it's more beaurocratic paperwork, but all it takes is one potential nightmare...

[Marika]

California has a form that the seller is required to fill out and submit in person or by mail to the DMV, to complete the transaction and ultamitley title transfer. I've used it many, many times and only had one incident in 30+ years. I simply reminded them, (with a copy) that they already had the necessary info. Problem gone. Yeah, it's more beaurocratic paperwork, but all it takes is one potential nightmare...

Yeah, if only New Jersey would get smart. I think the three part title form that was discussed in the article is a good idea unfortunately, New Jersey is always behind on everything.

[TDK]

Similar deal about 30-years ago.

I had simply signed over the title from my '53 Chevy. About 6-months or so later, the Cops showed up where I worked and said my car was in an accident! Since my car was parked outside, I looked out and even went around it to check it out. They then told me it was the '53! The "Guy" who bought it - apparently was drunk and left it sit in the middle of an intersection - no damage etc to anything, It was just sitting there waiting fo rme I guess?

I drove it home and figured out that he had not titled the car properly. We (me and one of the biggest friends I could find, not "Guido" maybe, but close) found out where he lived and went to his place the early the next morning. He was still in bad shape and under some "duress" - so he "gave" me the title back.

I explained the story somewhat (left out some a few minor details) to the nice gal in the DMV and she gladly made out a clean title for the car.

The next time I sold it - I was carefull to accompany the buyer to the DMV to change the title over.

Things haven't changed much in 30-years have they? Identity theft and all making it even easier. Same scum making a "living" by any method other than honest work. Too bad they tend to reproduce. So, why is it - they can't do their "community service" in Irag?

[jgr7]

The form here in Calif. is part of the pink slip and is called Notice of transfer and release of liability. It even has the vehicle ID number already printed on it along with the make and year and plate number. Just fill in the blanks with new owner, new owner address, odometer reading at time of sale, new owners state and zip, date sold or transferred, your name, selling price, your address, then sign your name city state and zip. One important thing though the form does say that "To remove your name from DMV'S records, the new owner must apply for transfer using the endorsed certificate (title) received from you." You are required by law to notify the DMV withen 5 days from the date you sell the vehicle.

Jeff

[JasonA]

Wow. We sold my wife's Saturn a few years ago, and retained the vanity plates, "4 JEN". We turned those plates in to DMV some days later, and received a receipt for turning them in. A few months ago, my wife received a call asking for information about the accident she was in in Virginia (we don't live there anymore). She said, "huh?" Apparently, a witness reported a car with plates resembling "4 JEN" as involved in a hit and run, although the insurance company (likely the victim's, on a fishing expedition) didn't give any details. We received a few calls from them over the next couple of weeks, until we finally faxed a copy of the receipt of us returning the plates to DMV. Either they were stolen from the DMV office, or a witness was mistaken about the license plate.

It's always a good idea to document, document, document! I have a copy of the title and a self-produced bill of sale for every vehicle I've sold. Always better to be safe than sorry.

[Marika]

Wow.  We sold my wife's Saturn a few years ago, and retained the vanity plates, "4 JEN".  We turned those plates in to DMV some days later, and received a receipt for turning them in.  A few months ago, my wife received a call asking for information about the accident she was in in Virginia (we don't live there anymore).  She said, "huh?"  Apparently, a witness reported a car with plates resembling "4 JEN" as involved in a hit and run, although the insurance company (likely the victim's, on a fishing expedition) didn't give any details.  We received a few calls from them over the next couple of weeks, until we finally faxed a copy of the receipt of us returning the plates to DMV.  Either they were stolen from the DMV office, or a witness was mistaken about the license plate.

It's always a good idea to document, document, document!  I have a copy of the title and a self-produced bill of sale for every vehicle I've sold.  Always better to be safe than sorry.

There are plenty of plates out there that say "4 JEN". The question is, what STATE did it come from. A lot of witnesses will get a plate number but never bother to confirm the state the plate is from. It can cause a lot of problems.

[growe3]

Hi Marika,

I had a similar situation many years ago when I sold one of my old clunkers. The guy was pulled over for running a Stop sign, the cops decided to do a search and found some "reds" on the guy. Since the car had not been retitled the cops came to my house and proceded to be real jerks to me, my wife and scare our small children; searching for a drug stash. (Berkeley, CA late 1960's)

I did have a couple of witness to the sale, which had taken place almost two months before so it was finally sorted out.

As "Bob D" noted, in California they have a system that pretty well removes this problem. I will post the DMV link below, if you think it is worthwhile perhaps you can reccommend this system to your Motor Vechicle Commission.

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/faq/faqbuysell.htm

-George

[Marika]

Hi Marika,

I had a similar situation many years ago when I sold one of my old clunkers. The guy was pulled over for running a Stop sign, the cops decided to do a search and found some "reds" on the guy. Since the car had not been retitled the cops came to my house and proceded to be real jerks to me, my wife and scare our small children; searching for a drug stash. (Berkeley, CA late 1960's)

I did have a couple of witness to the sale, which had taken place almost two months before so it was finally sorted out.

As "Bob D" noted, in California they have a system that pretty well removes this problem. I will post the DMV link below, if you think it is worthwhile perhaps you can reccommend this system to your Motor Vechicle Commission.

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/faq/faqbuysell.htm

-George

Thanks!! I sent your link for the California DMV to the reporter who wrote the article. He might be able to get the information to the proper party and if he writes about it in his column, it might draw more attention to this obviously dangerous loophole in New Jersey's DMV.

[JasonA]

There are plenty of plates out there that say "4 JEN". The question is, what STATE did it come from. A lot of witnesses will get a plate number but never bother to confirm the state the plate is from. It can cause a lot of problems.

Good question. I don't know what state the plates were from. They wouldn't even tell me the make of car in question. I just assumed they were reported to be Virginia plates, but who knows. Good point.

[Marika]

There are plenty of plates out there that say "4 JEN".  The question is, what STATE did it come from.  A lot of witnesses will get a plate number but never bother to confirm the state the plate is from.  It can cause a lot of problems.

Good question. I don't know what state the plates were from. They wouldn't even tell me the make of car in question. I just assumed they were reported to be Virginia plates, but who knows. Good point.

Jason, what amazes me about the state of New Jersey is just how backwards their thinking is. Here's an example:

New Jersey has a fund that everyone has to pay into through their car insurance rates called the uninsured motorist fund. This fund is used to pay for damages to cars, property or person caused by uninsured motorists. So who are the majority of uninsured motorists? Basically, they are people who buy a car for $200 and then don't want to or can't spend $60 to register and title it and another $1,000 to insure it. So what happens in this case is that they drive around, get into an accident and dump the car. The person whom they hit, is stuck having to wait for the state of New Jersey to pay for their damages through the uninsured motorist fund.

Would it not make more sense to simply use those funds to take older cars off the road permanently so that they don't end up in the hands of people who will not register, title and insure them?

Possible Scenario Number 1: My car was bought for $200. It was not registered, titled or insured. Let's assume that the person who bought it ended up in an accident that caused $4,000 in damage. Now, the uninsured motorist fund has to pay out on that damage. As a result, everyone's insurance rates climb.

Possible Scenario Number 2: My car is old and has a book value of about $425. I plan to get a new or newer car and the state of New Jersey offers to buy the car from me for $200 to take it off the road. I accept the check, the state instructs me as to where I should deliver the car and it's done. The car is no longer on the road and no longer able to be a potential threat to life or property. Total savings for the citizens of New Jersey? $3,800.

Which makes more sense?

[Marika]

Another screwed up thing that New Jersey did recently:

It used to be, if you bought a used car, you had to have it inspected within a certain number of days after you purchased it. During the inspection process, the vehicle's registration and insurance were confirmed.

What New Jersey recently did was this:

As an example: If I buy a car, let's say in January, 2004, and the inspection sticker on that car from the previous owner, is good until December, 2004, I don't have to get that car inspected until December, 2004. This means that I don't have to title, register or insure the vehicle until I'm ready to get it inspected which means that I can drive around from January through December without title, registration or insurance. Nice huh?

By removing the immediate inspection process, the state of New Jersey removed a very effective safety check since the inspection process requires a driver to produce a registration and insurance card for the vehicle.

Instead of New Jersey making the roads safer for drivers and closing loopholes, these rotten, corrupt politicians are doing whatever they can to make New Jersey the most expensive and most dangerous state in the country to live and drive in. They all suck!!

[Marika]

It can happen in Michigan, also. Recently, a close friend of mine was contacted by the police regarding his driver's license suspension.... Long story short, the beater he had sold to someone was driven without changing the title and in the process accumulated a huge pile of parking tickets. My buddy had to go pay the tickets to get his license out of suspension, then go to court to prove that he didn't own the car to get the fines returned. Took him 6 months to sort the mess out....

And in South Carolina....Many years ago my father's friend sold a car to another individual. Shortly after, the police came to his house and arrested him. "His" car had been involved in a fatal accident. The driver had run a red light, hit another car and killed someone and fled the scene. Took quite a while to sort that mess out.

I sold a snowmobile a few years ago and checked up on it later...as I kept getting the registration forms for it in the mail. The new owner had never transferred the title, either. I followed up with the indivual and the secretary of state to get it transferred. Found out the individual did not have any insurance on the sled...so...guess what...if he had hurt someone they would probably have come looking for me. I had a signed, witnessed bill of sale but it would have been sticky for sure.

ALWAYS make up a bill of sale, even hand written, and have it signed by the other party. Check ID if the person is unknown to you. Document the time and date the vehicle is transferred and never give the buyer your plates regardless of what excuse you use. Never. Have a witness and have them sign the bill of sale with you and the buyer.

A few weeks after the sale, check with the sect of state to see if the title has been transferred. Seems like a lot of grief. If so...read the above again.

bbobynski,

I would consider your experiences as "shock therapy" of the best type.

I know I've learned my lesson and this won't happen again.

I also realize, that after examining the system California DMV has in place, it looks perfect and would be highly workable in New Jersey, but only **IF** the politicians would get off their lazy duffs and get to work implementing it here in New Jersey.

The beauty of the California system is that it doesn't require 3 part title forms which can be very expensive to print. The California form is a simple form that can even be downloaded from their website, is filled out by the Seller and mailed back to the California DMV. Easy as 1-2-3.

[Marika]

I just got a phone call from the Englewood Police. They are not happy with the article, especially the part where the writer quoted me as saying that I was put through hell. Well, from my point of view I was. Hey, what can I say.

[phillydude]

Amazing what you can find out about a person through the internet... for example, using the information from the article published in the paper, I was able to learn this about our friend Marika:

1) Her phone number is (973) 546-75**. Her pager number is (201)692-42**.

2) She was a cute baby: http://www.photo.net/shared/community-member?user_id=65427

3. She got a Thermos for Christmas last year, but didn't like it. http://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-review...1947344-1681452

4. This is not the first time this particular newspaper reporter has used her for a story: http://www.therecordnie.com/index.php?page=227

5. She's not only in to Cadillacs... she's also into Pipe Organs: http://www.pipechat.org/archives/2001/August/digest2335.html

I also found some personal information about a medical condition she has... I'm not going to post that. I also found something about her views on pornography, but didn't spend too much time researching that... I know pornography when I'm in it... other than that, to each his or her own.

Not singling out Marika for any particular reason... just showing how much information about each of us is out there. Another good reason to try and keep your name out of the papers...

[JimD]

....

Not singling out Marika for any particular reason... just showing how much information about each of us is out there. Another good reason to try and keep your name out of the papers...

And police reports....

[Marika]

Amazing what you can find out about a person through the internet... for example, using the information from the article published in the paper, I was able to learn this about our friend Marika:

1) Her phone number is (973) 546-75**. Her pager number is (201)692-42**.

2) She was a cute baby: http://www.photo.net/shared/community-member?user_id=65427

3. She got a Thermos for Christmas last year, but didn't like it. http://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-review...1947344-1681452

4. This is not the first time this particular newspaper reporter has used her for a story: http://www.therecordnie.com/index.php?page=227

5. She's not only in to Cadillacs... she's also into Pipe Organs: http://www.pipechat.org/archives/2001/August/digest2335.html

I also found some personal information about a medical condition she has... I'm not going to post that. I also found something about her views on pornography, but didn't spend too much time researching that... I know pornography when I'm in it... other than that, to each his or her own.

Not singling out Marika for any particular reason... just showing how much information about each of us is out there. Another good reason to try and keep your name out of the papers...

I got a kick out of this!!

Let me correct something.

My pager number is: 973-918-02**

that other pager number is old.

That Thermos still leaks, so I just don't turn it upside down...LOLOL!!

Yes, I LOVE organ music, but you would have found that out from searching this site as well.

That medical condition? It's not really a condition, it's something a person is born with, Asperger's Syndrome, a form of functional autism.

Pornography? I don't personally watch it but I think the debate at photo.net centered on whether a certain photograph or photographs were considered pornographic in nature. I didn't think they were, but I also wasn't too impressed with the image quality either.

But you're right, it's very easy to find out information about someone through the Internet which is why you either have to be willing to tell all, or tell nothing. If you go the route of "tell nothing" just remember, there's always someone out there that can find out something about you, regardless of how benign it might be. People are just naturally curious.

I don't hide myself on the Internet or from anyone.

[Marika]

....

Not singling out Marika for any particular reason... just showing how much information about each of us is out there. Another good reason to try and keep your name out of the papers...

And police reports....

I think that cop became upset over the news article because he's new in that department. The article was not intended to upset or insult him or the Englewood Police.

Today, I spoke with the reporter who realized afterwards that he should not have mentioned the police department by name but regardless, the officers were not mentioned in the article.

The entire article was not meant to downgrade the police in any way. It was meant to serve as a lesson (and I was the sacrificial lamb) as to what happens to someone when they don't record the name of the Buyer of their vehicle in New Jersey even though, the buyer is not required to do this or report the sale. Legally, I didn't do anything wrong, nor did the body shop that was kind enough to sell the vehicle for me. The flaw is in the way the division of motor vehicle handles these situations. As it currently stands sellers are not required to report the sale of their vehicle, only the buyer is required and the article is a lesson that teaches the reader that buyers sometimes don't do what the law requires them to do.

As the reporter and I discussed this situation further, he mentioned to me that the police officer is in a unique position to help change the system at DMV. I wonder if the police officer is aware of the impact he can make in this regard, perhaps not. I know that I have a reputation of being a "fighter for that which is right". Too bad that police officer and I can't get together and pool our energy and use it to bring about positive change in the DMV system. It would certainly save him a lot of time and grief and save innocent sellers the same.