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water pump leak?


steveo412

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hi all,i have a problem ,i seen in a post that bobbyfisher had,i think i have the same problem,here is what he said, The Northstar head gasket rarely leaks externally, so your leak is suspect. If you are standing looking over the driver side fender, the water pump is installed in a crossover that attaches to both heads in FOUR places with seals. THOSE seals go bad and you will get a coolant leak at those FOUR locations, it will run down the side of the block, and can run down the crossover to drip off of it.

,,i cant find the leak its runing down the tanny and just driping underneth any help would be good

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The best way to find a leak that is not easily traceable is to pressurize the cooling system. You can use a dye in it also to help find the leak. Try SEARS to see if you can find a pressurizer.

If your water pump is sealed at the body seal and its not leaking at the shaft, a leak can be caused by the crossover seals, the 6 inch by pass / heater hose by the stat, the two green hoses, the heater pipes, the TB preheater circuit, the stat seal, tank, heater hoses, radiator end tanks, radiator hoses, alternator cooler if equipped, and cap if not holding pressure

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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it all started with a overheat,,,i got it home after a couple hours of stop and go,,and found out i had a leak in my coolant res,,i put in a new and a new thermastat,and cap,,started it up and ran fine,but was losing coolant,,i got under it and looked every where ,and i couldnt see where its coming from,its runing down the tranny,,so i need to get a presser tester?and die?,and give that a try,,,,i think the water pump seal is leaking and the cover,,thanks bobby for any input

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What side of the car are you seeing the leak on? Are you sure you tighted the hoses at the bottom of the new tank?

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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hey bobby,,its the driver side,,nothing leaks from the res,,i think its the water pump housing or the crossover,,it looks like its by the head or around the housing,,im thinking i shound just replace the water pump and gaskets and see if that works out,,,should be under 100 for all parts,,whatcha think?

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Don't throw parts at it. There is no reason to replace the water pump if its not leaking, but you could just replace the water pump body seal, that will save some cash.

My guess is that you are leaking at the crossover seals, for some reason, I cant find my thread on my crossover job, maybe it was purged

The crossover job is a hard job

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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Its not likely that your local parts house will sell this seal, you will probably need the dealer to get one, but try

You might try adding the cooling supplement tablets also after replacing the body seal, to see what happens, it might slow the seal leak if you have one

Remember you will need a water pump R&R tool

Here are photos of the crossover and my damaged seals from a 96, I was not leaking badly, I just smelled coolant and ran a little warmer than spec

Old seals

CrossoverJob045.jpg

DamagedCrossoverGasket.jpg

Crossover, note water pump location

CrossoverJob040.jpg

bad seal

UpperCrossoverGasket.jpg

face of crossover connection, you can see the supplement tablet collected

UpperLeftCoolantConnection.jpg

seal damage

LowerCrossoverGasket.jpg

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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looks like im in for a hall,,im a layed off welder so i think i have the time,,i will try the tabs first,the leak is pretty bad,,its not puring out but its driping good,,do them seals bolt in the head?cause i think thats where im seeing it,

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looks like im in for a hall,,im a layed off welder so i think i have the time,,i will try the tabs first,the leak is pretty bad,,its not puring out but its driping good,,do them seals bolt in the head?cause i think thats where im seeing it,

Those 4 seals, go between the crossover that I show you above and the two heads

If you look closely, you will see that there are 8 bolt holes in the crossover, 4 on each side. The two lower bolts on the rear head are a bear to get at and you might get them from below

The problem with doing this job is that there is an electrical conduit that must be moved, not fun

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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I need to locate my thread on this, for some reason, I can not search back more than two years, that will be helpful.

Let me think about this a bit. I actually detached and moved the electrical conduit that wraps around the front of the engine and connects to the relay center

You might also need to remove (after marking its location) the PRNDL selector switch, its in the way of the lower bolts

You have a 94, its probably very different than my 96, do you have a factory service manual?

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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yes i have one,i ordered the 4 gaskets from the dealer,,i also got the water pump and the 2 other gaskets i needed,i could start tearing it down right?i can send some photos if that helps,i would just like to have steps to do,so i know whats next lol,,,any input is good thanks guys

Edited by steveo412
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hey,,im down to the electrical wires that are blocking the lower bolts,its been a total of 3 hours so far,,its not as bad as it sounded,but im not done yet lol,i just went out and bought a hanes book,there nice to have,,i will post my progress,,

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hey,,im down to the electrical wires that are blocking the lower bolts,its been a total of 3 hours so far,,its not as bad as it sounded,but im not done yet lol,i just went out and bought a hanes book,there nice to have,,i will post my progress,,

Return the Haines book its a little more than fireplace kindling and a total waste of money

Do you have a Factory Service Manual?

Don't count your chickens before they are hatched, I didn't say the job was impossible, I said it was tough. As an example, Cadillac charges about $750 for this job, you know the cost of the seals right?, the remainder is labor at their $100 per hour rates.

I removed that conduit with the PCM and relay modules attached and laid it on the fender, at the time I was lowering my carriage to do side pan tranny work, have fun

CrossoverJob031.jpg

Here are the two heater pipes that wrap around the rear of the engine, you may need to disconnect the 'green' hoses that attach to them. Those are silicone hoses that cost about $16, so keep them in place they resist heat better than rubber

CrossoverJob034.jpg

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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This was my engine compartment when I was done with the job, it looked beautiful, I replaced the dogbones, crossover seals, cleaned my TB, replaced my heater pipes, cleaned every relay contact and module, the TCC solenoid, Pressure solenoid, ISS sensor, tranny filters and associated seals/gaskets, side pan seal, tranny mount, ball joint, oil level sensor, oil pressure switch, control arm bushings and strut rod bushings in one job

ISSandCrossoverdone002.jpg

My throttle body looked beautiful after soaking and polishing it

CrossoverJob004A-1.jpg

This is a scary photo, my neighbor didnt think my car would ever run again after seeing the PCM on top of the fender and this, laugh.gif The pump is visible right there, we have had a member replace his pump due to whining, slow engagement, etc

ISSSpeedSensorJob022.jpg

This is the main drive chain, the ISS sensor is circled

ISSSpeedSensorJob039.jpg

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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your right it gets tougher as i go bodybyfisher,,i returned the book,,does the throttle body have to come off,cause i didnt get that gasket,what should i clean these parts with?thanks steve

I can not remember if the TB HAD to come off, I wanted to thoroughly clean mine, so I pulled it off.

Here is what the seal behind it looks like, keep in mind that mine was a 96, yours is undoubtedly different, I know you have an ISC motor. Notice the black primordial goo in the intake, that is normal, its condensed EGR gases

ISSCrossover6_07009.jpg

Closeup

IntakeManifoldtoSpacerGasket.jpg

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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i ran into a problem,,what do i do with the fuel lines?

Use a proper quick disconnect tool, detach them and put them to the side. OBVIOUSLY DO NOT turn the key on, you will spew fuel!!! You should have the battery disconnected

I have this set

http://www.etoolcart...etlis37000.aspx

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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This is difficult, because I don't know the 94, but I do believe you have quick disconnect fitting

Follow the fuel line from the fuel rail, it runs downward under the drivers seat area, you will find a quick disconnect fitting, use the tool to disconnect it.

Maybe someone with a 94 will chime in, Ill look in my 95 manual

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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ok i found them,,i got the napa tool for ac and fuel lines and it didnt work,,its to thick,,so i will go up the street tomorrow and get a different set,thanks steve

See if you can get a nice set, like the one I linked you to above

Sears has them

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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ok,fuel lines done,,i still got the green hoses to do,then i will unbolt the crossover,my progress will be posted,,i cant thank u enough bodybyfish,,your allways there to help,,,,,,steve

Edited by steveo412
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