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Low speed wobble side to side


Scotty

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For a few days now I have a wobble that starts as soon as I move, my head actually moves side to side and the steering wheel pulsates back and forth. I vaguely recall hitting a bad pot hole recently. I jacked up the front end and looked for obvious problems bubbles on the tires, etc and don't see anything obvious. It is so bad that it seems it has to be something obvious. My driver side tire is pretty bad and I need a set of tires. Could I have a bent wheel from the bad pothole? I am going to pull the wheels later this afternoon. Any ideas?

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Examine those wheels carefully; you are describing a bent wheel to me.

Thanks Jim, I will look at that closely, I did not know they could bend. I do remember shouting an obscenity recently when I hit a bad pothole. It has to be substantial as the side to side wobble begins as soon as I start moving. Its annoying. Thanks

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Try swapping that tire with the spare or one of the front tires. The wobble will either move to the front or go away. There is no way to cure it if that is the problem. The tire is shot.

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You have a tire cord seperation. It will not show externally. Been there done that, though not recently.

I just had a tire belt separation this week. I did not notice it at first but something caught my eye and did not look right, then on closer inspection there was a bubble in the tread on the inside of the tire. Take the tire off and the belt separation should show itself. If that is not it I would vote for a bent rim.

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You still need to look at the wheels carefully, it could be a combination of both a bent wheel and a damaged tire. Overall though, and once again, I am with Larry.

Never underestimate the amount of a persons greed.

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For a few days now I have a wobble that starts as soon as I move, my head actually moves side to side and the steering wheel pulsates back and forth. I vaguely recall hitting a bad pot hole recently. I jacked up the front end and looked for obvious problems bubbles on the tires, etc and don't see anything obvious. It is so bad that it seems it has to be something obvious. My driver side tire is pretty bad and I need a set of tires. Could I have a bent wheel from the bad pothole? I am going to pull the wheels later this afternoon. Any ideas?

Unfortunately, you might have bent the wheel or damaged the tire. I went through that myself years ago. Very frustrating.

If you can remember where the pothole was that you hit, you might be able to get the State to pay for the repairs/replacements. Just a thought.

If you really want to make people safe drivers again then simply remove all the safety features from cars. No more seat belts, ABS brakes, traction control, air bags or stability control. No more anything. You'll see how quickly people will slow down and once again learn to drive like "normal" humans.

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Scotty,

I vote for the seperated tread/broken belt.

I would jack the car up and rotate the suspect tire while watching the tread. You can fabricate a pointer out of a nail and some scrap lumber to give yourself a reference point. If the belt is broken, the tread will have a noticeable side to side movement.

If your wheels are cast aluminum, they are pretty resistant to being bent. They will usually break first, but I suppose that anything is possible. You can also use the pointer to check the rim for side to side runout at the tire bead edge.

The side to side movement that you describe is a classic symptom of a broken belt. Hopefully, you have road hazard protection for your tires. A broken belt should be covered. :D

PS make sure that you support the vehicle with jack stands when checking the tires and wheels.

You may want to have the alignment checked also. Hitting a pothole hard enough to damage the tire can also affect the alignment.

Look at the wheel closely, there may be a crack near the point where the tires belt is broken.

Good Luck,

Britt

Britt
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Thanks guys I am going out now to pull the tires and look them over I am considering doing the front brakes at the same time. The pothole was bad, its possible that it separate the tire. I need to buy four new tires and while I was considering the Hydroedge, it looks like I will go with the Symetry, it has full sipes and major water channels and its about $30 cheaper per tire plus its a white wall. Any experience with the Symetry would be appreciated. I will immediately get the front end aligned. Thanks, I will let you know what I find.

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Scotty,

I have Symetry's on my 94 SLS. They seem to be a good tire. The only problem that I had was that I didn't rotate them often enough and I had to replace two of them sooner than expected. (about 45,000 miles) They do have good handling and ride qualities, however they are not racing/high performance tires.

If possible, have the alignment done when you have your new tires put on. If not, I would do it as soon as possible after getting them installed. Worn tires can affect the stance of the car and can affect the alignment process to some degree.

Britt

Britt
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Scotty,

I have Symetry's on my 94 SLS. They seem to be a good tire. The only problem that I had was that I didn't rotate them often enough and I had to replace two of them sooner than expected. (about 45,000 miles) They do have good handling and ride qualities, however they are not racing/high performance tires.

If possible, have the alignment done when you have your new tires put on. If not, I would do it as soon as possible after getting them installed. Worn tires can affect the stance of the car and can affect the alignment process to some degree.

Britt

Thanks for the info on the Symetrys. I buy my tires at BJs or Costco, they give free lifetime balancing and rotating which is great as I go at a time when they are not busy and get it done (about a 6,000 mile interval). As you have seen it does make a difference.

You are probably right I should consider going directly from BJs or Costco to get it aligned and kill two birds.

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Well here is a big, DUH! Well I knew I was in need of tires and I knew I needed an alignment as I did not like the way the driver front tire would wear. It wore so bad on the inside that the steel belt came through, which of course is the reason for the wobble I was getting. It appears that my lower ball joint may be worn because it seemed to me that the bottom of the tire was sitting way out and continued inward quite a bit as I jacked the front end up with a floor jack. That would explain why the inner part of the tire has been wearing through. The car is kind of squatting on that side with the bottom of the tire sitting outward. What is the test to determine a worn ball joint on front wheel cars? In the old days lifting the tire with a prybar supporting the frame while looking for play at the joint work was the method does that still work? I think I'll buy a big vise for my bench now to drill the ball joint rivets :( out (an excuse to buy a tool :lol: ) Brakes look good maybe I can get away with just cleaning up the rotors and a re-bedding to stop the pulsing. So I don't wreck a new tire, I think I'll buy 3 tires and keep the best of the old tires for that side until I fix and align it. I will probably replace the strut rod bushing while I am at it, but not the control arm bushing unless its bad. Thanks for all the help, looks like a lot of work ahead. :rolleyes:

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I usually get a low speed wobble after too many gin & tonics... :D

The alignment shop will tell you if the ball joint is bad as they will be unable to align the front end with a bad ball joint. You could jack up the car and rock tite by holding it at the 12:00 and 6:00 positions and rocking it. If the ball joint is shot, you'll see movement at the joint itself.

I think the tire will be canted inward at the bottom when the weight of the vehicle is off the front suspension due to the geometry of the suspenson.

Glad to see you're going with whitewall tires!

Kevin
'93 Fleetwood Brougham
'05 Deville
'04 Deville
2013 Silverado Z71

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Any experience with the Symetry would be appreciated.

Mike,

I just put Symetry's on a month or so ago when they had a $50 rebate that I posted about. Any way, I am happy with them so far. Obviously I haven't had them very long but they are smooth and quiet (what I wanted).

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I think the tire will be canted inward at the bottom when the weight of the vehicle is off the front suspension due to the geometry of the suspenson.

Glad to see you're going with whitewall tires!

Kevin, the tire seems canted OUT too much at the bottom is that possible? As I jacked the car up the outside line of the tire appeared to move in a couple of inches.

If the car is in fact squating too far, is this could be a spring problem also couldn't it? As I have told you, this car easily bottoms out on the highway over undulations, now I know that the struts are suppose to slow the suspension travel but the if the springs are supporting the weight inadequately that could cause diving also, no? This is a white knuckle car packed up with family and baggage driving at highway speeds. I was thinking of replacing the struts and springs during the winter in my garage, I inquired at Cadillac Parts the other day and the electronic struts are still available they said. I did not know that they were still available. I know they are expensive but I am sure they will be out of production at some point. Doing the work yourself makes it a little less painful. What do you think about replacing the springs and struts to stop the diving? Thanks

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Well I may have figured out why my ball joint may be worn, the grease boot had a hole in it and when I greased the ball joint the grease came out of the hole. No grease is held in the rubber bladder as it is on the other side. Looking it over its not really a big job, if the three rivets come out easily it would be a cake walk. Is it possible for a ball joint to be worn enough for it to create alignment problems and not be noisy? Thanks

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Well I may have figured out why my ball joint may be worn, the grease boot had a hole in it and when I greased the ball joint the grease came out of the hole. No grease is held in the rubber bladder as it is on the other side. Looking it over its not really a big job, if the three rivets come out easily it would be a cake walk. Is it possible for a ball joint to be worn enough for it to create alignment problems and not be noisy? Thanks

I am not sure about the alignment but I think it can be worn enough to affect alignment and not be noisy.

As far as the grease boot, someone correct me if I am wrong, but I have always been under the impression that the grease boot is only there to keep dirt and water out. All it needs is one shot of grease to lube the ball & socket joint. Packing it so it expands does no good. My wifes Bonneville has a hole in the rear boot and I grease it every time I change oil (one shot) and the joint is still in good shape..........I think.

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I think I'll buy a big vise for my bench now to drill the ball joint rivets

Mike,

I took the rivets off easily with a drill press and two REGULAR drill bits. Just put the drill in the lowest possible speed and have someone with you (take advantage of your marital status :D ) to sprincle a lot of cooling liquide.

The saddest thing in life is wasted talent

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Well I may have figured out why my ball joint may be worn, the grease boot had a hole in it and when I greased the ball joint the grease came out of the hole. No grease is held in the rubber bladder as it is on the other side. Looking it over its not really a big job, if the three rivets come out easily it would be a cake walk. Is it possible for a ball joint to be worn enough for it to create alignment problems and not be noisy? Thanks

The ball joint can be worn enough to affect the alignment and not be noisy. You might consider having the dealer or alignment shop look at it to pinpoint the problem (if there is one) - it might save you a ton of work and money in the long run.

I wouldn't think the struts would be bad considering the low mileage on your car.

Kevin
'93 Fleetwood Brougham
'05 Deville
'04 Deville
2013 Silverado Z71

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Well I may have figured out why my ball joint may be worn, the grease boot had a hole in it and when I greased the ball joint the grease came out of the hole.  No grease is held in the rubber bladder as it is on the other side.  Looking it over its not really a big job, if the three rivets come out easily it would be a cake walk.  Is it possible for a ball joint to be worn enough for it to create alignment problems and not be noisy? Thanks

The ball joint can be worn enough to affect the alignment and not be noisy. You might consider having the dealer or alignment shop look at it to pinpoint the problem (if there is one) - it might save you a ton of work and money in the long run.

I wouldn't think the struts would be bad considering the low mileage on your car.

Yes but I am at 60K now and the car has been driven in the New York City area for all of its life, which equates to really crappy roads in so many ways. Not to mention stop and go traffic virtually 24 hours a day. Having travelled around the country a bit the roads are much better outside of this area.

Kevin I am telling you, on the highway at only 50 - 55 the sucker bottoms out going over up and down undulations, if the up and down undulation sneaks up on you, like once happened, I have smashed down on the ground, you expect something to be broken after that. FORGET about packing my wife and daughter in the car for a long trip, she is almost undrivable and low. I need to do something about it, so I was just going to do springs and struts (front then back over six months to spread out the $pain$) and get it over with (I will save the old struts for a rainy day in moth balls) :P I was also thinking that I should buy the electronic struts before they were unavailable as happened with my 91. I have been told that Cadillac 'supports' a product for 10 years and 2006 is coming :blink: What do you think?

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