Digital cluster on 96 DeVille

[Cadillac Jim]

At this point I very strongly advise that you get a factory shop manual (FSM) for your car. You can get new ones from Helm, Inc. or used ones on eBay. The used ones are cheaper.

[jndnaps]

At this point I very strongly advise that you get a factory shop manual (FSM) for your car. You can get new ones from Helm, Inc. or used ones on eBay. The used ones are cheaper.

But that's why I'm on here. If I had one, I wouldn't need to bother you guys. Then you'd all miss me..

[jndnaps]

Wow, this site is not as helpful as it used to be.. Oh well, I'll figure it out.

[BodybyFisher]

I would have helped but my service manual stopped working. Of course you will need to remove the dash pad, you need to remove the vents, using a narrow puddy knife or strip steel, at the top and bottom to get them out, and behind them are bolts that need to come off to get the pad off.

[Cadillac Jim]

The reason that I didn't reply to the last post is that I wasn't at the computer that day, except to clear out my email. Transcribing a complicated process from the FSM takes a lot of time, and is fraught with probability of error, particularly since I haven't done that particular job myself. If someone has done that job, it's best to let them reply.

Another point, and the reason that I suggested that you get your FSM, is that the best solution is for the DIY owner to have the FSM in front of him while doing the job. Even if it's the first time to do that particular job and with no experience, this way gives the best chance to get the job done right in a reasonable time, such as less than a day for getting the cluster out and putting it back in. This may not be possible without the FSM handy if you haven't done the job before, no matter what someone posts.

[rockfangd]

I am a bit rusty but the defroster vent has to be removed and you must unplug the sunload sensor, then there is 3-4 bolts under the vent, then there should be 4 bolts above the vents. They are kind of recessed just below the lip of the upper dash section. 7mm bolts, Then it pulls toward you then up. If I can find the diagram I will send it to you

[jndnaps]

Update on this problem.. Last week I was getting all my tools ready to change the spark plugs. I tried the socket on the coil pack to make sure I had the right size. That one had a wire connected to it. Maybe a ground wire? Anyways, I cranked it down a little and it seems like since I did that the cluster works. Not sure if that's just a coincidence or what.. But, since that day, the gauge cluster has been working again.. It's also been pretty cold here since that day. Not sure if the cold is making it work or what, but the sucker is working now (KNOCKS ON WOOD AGAIN) Hopefully I'll finally get lucky.. Don't seem to have anything but bad luck..

[jndnaps]

Darn! Went back out.. This car is turning back into a money pit. Or should I say plastic pit.. (Credit card)

[Cadillac Jim]

It's pretty clearly a bad connection somewhere. Finding and cleaning connectors and fuses should be free.

[jndnaps]

Here is what it does when it works and then goes out. Right now it came back on.

Where should I start? Isn't that just one plug?

[Texas Jim]

As best I remember...it is one plug.

But there are several wires going into the one plug.

Any one of them could be a little loose in it's connection and thus causing the IP to be intermittent...

Just throwing out an idea on something to check, before replacing parts.

[BodybyFisher]

Exactly what does not work, the MPH, Odometer, Gear Selected, and message line?, everything else works?

[jndnaps]

Exactly what does not work, the MPH, Odometer, Gear Selected, and message line?, everything else works?

What you see in the pic above. There's the pic when it's working fine, and when it goes out. I lose the Gas, MPH, Odometer, Trip, Gear Selected, and Message Center. So when that's out, I can't check codes either. Odometer shop wants $350.00 to fix it and the dealer wants close to $600.00 and they both said it's a common problem. I thought the guy at the odometer place said it's a power supply that goes out. Doesn't sound right to me, but, I'm lucky I know my name never mind anything about this.. Odo shop also said the whole thing will eventually go out.

[BodybyFisher]

When it happens, after it comes back on, is there any code set in history for the instrument panel?

I had this happen on an 86 Corvette, and took the dash out and sent it in and they fixed the power supply that was inside. I believe on my 91, the power supply was external to the panel.

Let me look at the manual later to see where the power supply is.

How handy are you? If we give you directions can you remove the dash pad and remove the instrument panel?

I have used this company with great success a few times and they are recommended, you might call them and see what their experience is on the 96 dash

Model electronics (800) 433-9657 321 West Route 59, Nanuet, NY 10954

http://www.modelelectronicsinc.com

[Cadillac Jim]

Plasma displays have an internal 24 Volt power supply. This voltage is pumped up to the 100 Volt level to turn on the segments in the display as part of the display driver. In the analog display there is only one in the instrument panel. The radio has its own.

[BodybyFisher]

If that is the case that the power supply is integral, you can check the connections, if good, remove the IP and send it to Model Electronics to be repaired.

Call them and see what they say

[jndnaps]

When it happens, after it comes back on, is there any code set in history for the instrument panel?

I had this happen on an 86 Corvette, and took the dash out and sent it in and they fixed the power supply that was inside. I believe on my 91, the power supply was external to the panel.

Let me look at the manual later to see where the power supply is.

How handy are you? If we give you directions can you remove the dash pad and remove the instrument panel?

I have used this company with great success a few times and they are recommended, you might call them and see what their experience is on the 96 dash

Model electronics (800) 433-9657 321 West Route 59, Nanuet, NY 10954

http://www.modelelectronicsinc.com

No, there are no codes for it. I check every time it comes back on. I also rap on the top of the dash pretty hard and that does nothing. Just thought if it was a loose connection, it may flicker or come back on..

No, I'm not all that handy, but I'm willing to give it a try. I read on another forum that the power supply (although that's not what he called it) can be changed. The guy bought a cluster from a junk yard and just changed out the PS. I wrote the guy, but it was like a 4 year old post and he never got back to me. there are 2 in the junk yard right now.. The one thing I suck at is soldering. If the PS is soldered in, I'm screwed. If not, I can give it a shot. I was trying to take the dash pad off the junk car and broke the wood grain on the dash, so that shows you how good I am. I don't want to do that on my car. But, if I can get it out and fixed, I'll fix the dash like you did on your 96 while it's out.. So if you have directions and don't mind posting them, that would be awesome.. Let me know and thanks for all the help so far..

Plasma displays have an internal 24 Volt power supply. This voltage is pumped up to the 100 Volt level to turn on the segments in the display as part of the display driver. In the analog display there is only one in the instrument panel. The radio has its own.

Is the power supply soldered in? If so I can't do it. I'm terrible at soldering..

[Cadillac Jim]

I see on the 1997 FSM page 8A-82-5 that the IPC has an internal 54 Volt power supply feed to the Climate Control Panel for its plasma displays. If you have the bucket seats with the floor console, the electronic PRNDL is fed from a 10 Amp fuse in the trunk compartment fuse block labeled IGN0-BODY (p. 8A-82-0). Other fuses in the trunk compartment fuse bloc ar ethe 20 Amp Cluster Fuse and the 10 Amp RLY IGN1 FUSE. I don't see a breakout of the other components that are different between the analog and digital instrument panels, which means that these are part of the assembly.

I would check the fuses in the trunk compartment fuse block. If you need to send in the IPC, remember that this is the main computer for the car and contains data for all your options and calibration for your gas gauge and temperature gauge, etc. You don't want to exchange it unless they move all the data over to the one you get back.

Removal of the IPC is quite a process, beginning with taking out the defroster grille, then the dash padding, etc. We can scan in the pages or post text, but you are far better off getting a FSM from eBay.

[BodybyFisher]

I have gone thought the 96 manaul a bunch of times and there is little or no info regarding the internal operation of the IPC, which is very surprising to me.

No where unless I missed it does the manual provide diagnosis if sections of the IPC are out. There are a few power inputs, at least 3, on of which is keyed and two that appear to be constant.

There is a fuse, that feeds two constant power inputs called controlled battery. There is a "cluster fuse" that is 20 amps. Check the IGN 0 10 amp fuse for corrosion, it provides the ignition power to the IPC.

I would check G203 (ground) to make sure it is clean and tight. G203 is located behind the LH front of passenger compartment, on lower kick panel. G203 is hidden behind the kick panel, behind a plastic conduit down low by the notch on the plastic conduit.

I tried calling Model Electronics and they were closed on Saturday, Ill try again on Monday

[Logan]

The whole top of the dash pad has to come off to gain access. Some screws under the defroster vent..and a hidden screw behind each dash vent. The dash vents have to come out to gain access to the hidden screws.

Should be 2 large plugs on top of the IPC.

Your IPC is kind of rare with the 'PRNDSL' column indicater.

About $300 exchange to walk a IPC into a Delco radio/speedometer repair shop. Most larger (pop 1 million) cities will have a Delco repair shop.

That said, even Delco shops have a hard time figuring out intermitant problems in IPC's. So dont be surprised if the reman IPC has a different intermitant problem.

[WarrenJ]

You might think you could find a copy of the schematic for that IPC on the web somewhere, but if it's there it's well hidden. Oh well, maybe it'll be in the next Wikileaks dump.

[jndnaps]

I see on the 1997 FSM page 8A-82-5 that the IPC has an internal 54 Volt power supply feed to the Climate Control Panel for its plasma displays. If you have the bucket seats with the floor console, the electronic PRNDL is fed from a 10 Amp fuse in the trunk compartment fuse block labeled IGN0-BODY (p. 8A-82-0). Other fuses in the trunk compartment fuse bloc ar ethe 20 Amp Cluster Fuse and the 10 Amp RLY IGN1 FUSE. I don't see a breakout of the other components that are different between the analog and digital instrument panels, which means that these are part of the assembly.

I would check the fuses in the trunk compartment fuse block. If you need to send in the IPC, remember that this is the main computer for the car and contains data for all your options and calibration for your gas gauge and temperature gauge, etc. You don't want to exchange it unless they move all the data over to the one you get back.

Removal of the IPC is quite a process, beginning with taking out the defroster grille, then the dash padding, etc. We can scan in the pages or post text, but you are far better off getting a FSM from eBay.

It's a 96 with on the column shift, no console. I have checked the fuses before and even replaced some with new. I'm not working right now, so I can't really spare the $$ for the FSM. I'm lucky we have $$ to eat right now. The economy killed me and we're just getting by. That's why my dumb a$$ is on here trying to break my car more.. LOL..

I have gone thought the 96 manaul a bunch of times and there is little or no info regarding the internal operation of the IPC, which is very surprising to me.

No where unless I missed it does the manual provide diagnosis if sections of the IPC are out. There are a few power inputs, at least 3, on of which is keyed and two that appear to be constant.

There is a fuse, that feeds two constant power inputs called controlled battery. There is a "cluster fuse" that is 20 amps. Check the IGN 0 10 amp fuse for corrosion, it provides the ignition power to the IPC.

I would check G203 (ground) to make sure it is clean and tight. G203 is located behind the LH front of passenger compartment, on lower kick panel. G203 is hidden behind the kick panel, behind a plastic conduit down low by the notch on the plastic conduit.

I tried calling Model Electronics and they were closed on Saturday, Ill try again on Monday

Fuses were good and replaced anyways. I'll check that ground this week.

The whole top of the dash pad has to come off to gain access. Some screws under the defroster vent..and a hidden screw behind each dash vent. The dash vents have to come out to gain access to the hidden screws.

Should be 2 large plugs on top of the IPC.

Your IPC is kind of rare with the 'PRNDSL' column indicater.

About $300 exchange to walk a IPC into a Delco radio/speedometer repair shop. Most larger (pop 1 million) cities will have a Delco repair shop.

That said, even Delco shops have a hard time figuring out intermitant problems in IPC's. So dont be surprised if the reman IPC has a different intermitant problem.

How do I get that pic bigger? Also, a local spedo shop wants $350 to fix mine. He basically said the power supply needs to be replaced and said you really can't get them and he'd actually have to rebuild the PS.. That's if I heard him correctly. The $350 is to R&R the whole job.. But again, I'm broke right now. Just trying to see what if anything I can do myself.

Below is something I read on another forum that's 5 years old. Only thing is it's on a 97.. Not sure if that's something I could try..

I just wanted to let everyone know the outcome of the repair to my Cadillac 97 Deville - Center Digital Dash Does Not Display opportunity. It has been about 2-weeks since I began this project which resulted in several replies on this forum that I have read and considered. While many may not consider following that path that I chose to take I will present it here for others with the same or similar problems to consider, since in my case it saved me a considerable amount of repair cost and did achieve solving my original problem. I did discover certain things in the process such as the fact that Cadillac seems to have tied their theft deterrent system to include the dash as well as the well know pass key that disables the ignition system

if defective. My repair path which worked for me allowed me to retain the original automobile mileage, which in my case was only 60,700 miles on the odometer as well as not having to resort to the dealership or aftermarket add ons or modification to the system.

I found on e-bay a replacement 97 Deville Speedometer Instrument Cluster for a total cost that included shipping of just over $30.00. It was listed with an accurate and honest description stating a mileage of 149,000 along with the stock # and model number. As I mentioned in an earlier attempt to get assistance from this forum after installing it the display did work, but when I tried to start the car it gave the ignition disabled message. To solve this problem I disassembled my original unit and the replacement. If you do this you will find basically 4 assemblies with the rear case in which they mount. Since I only needed the center Speedometer readout section I used the one from the replacement Cluster and reassembled my original Instrument Cluster. It worked. I realize that my case may be unique, but I doubt it.

[jndnaps]

That's it? You all gave up on me? Anyone tell me what this so called power supply looks like or maybe have a pic of it? I may try and go to a bone yard this week and pull one. May try what I posted above in red.

[Cadillac Jim]

The power supply is almost certainly permanently mounted to the IPC board. It may be one of the four sub-assemblies mentioned in the other forum post that you quoted in bold red text. Unless you are ready to take on microelectronics repair, I wouldn't consider repairing the power supply a DIY job. By microelectronics, I mean flat-packs with sub-millimeter pin spacing wave-soldered to multi-layer circuit boards. Nearly all electronics assemblies manufactured in the last 20 years are microelectronics because they offer lower cost, smaller size, better reliability, and more flexibility in fitting into complex and restrictive spaces than the old style computer chips.

Things that go wrong on microelectronics include, but are not limited to, the following (listed in decreasing order of my opinion of frequency of occurrence):

• Loss of connection or bad connection, usually at a component pin or board feed-through (connection between layers).
• Change of value or open circuit of a resistor, usually one associated with power distribution or a power supply. The bad resistor and its connections may be inside a flat-pack. Flat-packs are common in high-accuracy laser-trimmed resistors common in voltage-setting networks in power supplies and in pull-up resistors in network bus drivers.
• Semiconductor failure, occasionally a short circuit due to overheated silicon causing breakdown or melting of the silicon where the junctions are, or, less often, breaking or melting of the hair wires used to connect the silicon to the pins on the package that solder to the circuit board. This happens almost always on power transistors such as power supply regulator transistors, particularly IGFETs and may be secondary to another failure such as a bad resistor that sets up the transistor for failure. It is rare in low power semiconductors such as most microprocessors used in cars.

Equipment for diagnosing and repairing microelectronics includes a binocular microscope and remotely controlled work-by-wire soldering equipment designed for repairing tiny connections that are impossible to deal with using an ordinary hand-held soldering iron.

My advice is to get a used IPC module and ask the dealer to move your car's data over to it and install it, or to follow the advice you quoted in your last post.

[jndnaps]

OK, that answered my earlier question. If it's soldered/permanently mounted to the IPC board, I can't do that. Me and soldering don't get along. Just wonder if the four sub-assemblies he mentions are just screwed in with the IPC intact and has a plug in. If so, I could probably do that.