Is there a new fuel coming in 4 years,

[Chris_Austria]

That will explain the differences. I thought maybe the fuel grade or catalytic converter may have an influence, because I think the US have other emission standards.

I think BMW or other manufacturers from Europe have to change something on the cars when they export it, because every actual model requires at least 95oct. BMW, Mercedes, Audi often recommend to use 98oct. I'm not sure if the power and fuel economy would be the same if only 93oct or less is used?!

[dmk9561]

If you read the Wikipedia article on octane ratings, it explains the difference between US/Canada and worldwide octane standards. Generally, the RON is about 5 points higher than the quoted octane rating in the US for identical fuels. The 1995 Cadillac owner's manual here recommends 91 octane US fuel, so that would be about 96 rating in Europe. Most stations in this area sell 93 octane premium, which would be 98 there. I know that some parts of Europe have fuels available with higher ratings than 98. Since 98 RON=93 US, it seems likely that Audi's fuel requirement is the same here as there.

I can supply you with a picture of a pump here with very high octane gas (probably 105 or so), but it's sold as race fuel and isn't to be put in a car that drives up. The pump has a very short hose so that it can be put in a can but not a car. It costs about $6 per US gallon. Up until just a couple of years ago, that fuel would've still had lead, but I don't think that it does now. There is still some lead in aviation gas, which is very high octane, too. I'm sure that a lot of it is smuggled from airport pumps and into classic Corvettes, Plymouths, and Mustangs with high-compression big blocks. Some of those '70 model high performance cars would not run as well on today's pump gas but would love that leaded airplane gas.

US emissions regulations are no longer more strict than Euro IV generally, but were as late as about 10 years ago. Today, some cars still have a lower hp rating in the US, but it's probably due to different tuning to cater to US buyers.

[Chris_Austria]

Thats interesting, I didn't know that there are differences in octane rating.

My Cadillac dealer told me to use 95oct, that would be 90oct in the US. When I tried 98oct (93oct in US) the fuel economy was worse than with the next lower grad (95oct in Europe).

The highest rating you can buy here (for automobile use) is 100oct. But I don't think thats worth the money. The gallon would be 6,8 US Dollar

[RalPh]

My Northstar runs on air... with a very small amount of gasoline added. The guru once said an internal combustion engine is just an "air pump."

Air is 20% nitrogen and 80% oxygen (approximately). Nitrogen is inert and cannot be burned (oxidized). It's difficult for me to understand how you can oxidize oxygen.

Regards,

Warren

WHOA... if this were true, the very First fire to appear would totally consume the earth

The earths atmosphere is @ 80% Nitrogen & 20% Oxygen (in fact, if there were even a slightly higher amount of Oxygen in the atmosphere, say 24%, it wouldn't be possible to extinguish Forrest Fires!)

Also, that "Pill" that was put into a gas tank full of water was Calcium Carbide (what old miners lamps used) and produced Acetylene Gas that an engine could be made to run on (with modifications to the Tank & Intake) and was an ole time hoax...

No 75mpg carbs, No "forever" light bulbs, Oswald killed Kennedy, We Did land on the moon, the Towers were NOT filled with explosives, and Jessie Ventura has some Very Serious mental problems

[WarrenJ]

My Northstar runs on air... with a very small amount of gasoline added. The guru once said an internal combustion engine is just an "air pump."

Air is 20% nitrogen and 80% oxygen (approximately). Nitrogen is inert and cannot be burned (oxidized). It's difficult for me to understand how you can oxidize oxygen.

Regards,

Warren

WHOA... if this were true, the very First fire to appear would totally consume the earth

The earths atmosphere is @ 80% Nitrogen & 20% Oxygen (in fact, if there were even a slightly higher amount of Oxygen in the atmosphere, say 24%, it wouldn't be possible to extinguish Forrest Fires!)

WHOA... Adult Onset Dyslexia. Sorry 'bout that! :wipetears

Regards,

Warren

[Cadillac Jim]

I did a quick search on Snopes for "new auto fuel" and didn't turn up the four-year-obsolescence thing, but it does have the feel of an hysterical rumor, which is how a lot of urban legends start. I did turn up on the 200-mpg carbuetor, which I have heard off and on all my life:

http://www.snopes.com/autos/business/carburetor.asp

Status: FALSE

[WarrenJ]

My '95 and '98 Eldorados were both optimized for premium fuel. Out of simple curiosity I ran regular grade fuel in each and watched the results carefully. There was a barely noticeable loss of acceleration, but the cars otherwise ran smooth as silk. The penalty for using regular grade was about 1 mpg. I did some number crunching and decided the savings in using regular versus premium fuel amounted to less than the cost of a Starbucks coffee at fill up time. The loss of mileage with the A/C on was too small to measure reliably. I chose to stick with premium.

I insist on running a Tier-1 fuel in my car and the only thing in my area that fits that bill is 93 octane Shell V-Power, so that's what the car gets. The current steed, though rated for regular, has not suffered regular grade during my stewardship.

The Northstar, overall, is the most satisfying engine I've ever driven. And the 4T80E is just sweet. I just wish the '98 and '01 Eldorados had the slightly louder exhaust system the '95 had. Oh, and the '98 and '01 won't break the tires loose during a full power 1-2 shift. I miss that.

*******************

As an aside, if you google "engine runs on air" you'll find interesting stuff like:

http://www.gizmag.com/go/3185/

I haven't yet seen a practical application of this though . . .

BTW, a great site to browse.

Regards,

Warren

[Cadillac Jim]

Yeah, I run my 1997 ETC on premium gas, too. I've never cleaned my injectors or throttle body and never have had any symptom or other reason to believe that there was any need. I credit the top-tier gas for that.

I find that the degree to which the tires will chirp on the 1-2 shift with the shifter in "2" depends on the tires, the road surface type and roughness, the temperature, and whether there is anything else on the pavement such as leaves. Paint is always slick, as are bare dark asphalt and some other surfaces; check your state's motorcycle driver's handbook for much, much more. Dry rough concrete is best. And, sometimes there may be a little slippage but no squawk; the sound depends on the tires and the surface. Better tires tend to be quieter (except Michelin Pilots).

But, back to the subject, if someone tried to force every car over 8 years old off the road there would be mass mutiny. The average age of cars driven by Americans is over 8 years.

As far as energy independence, you need to watch out for "the law of unintended consequences." Ethanol sounds good but it takes more energy to produce ethanol than one might think; I haven't seen a comprehensive study of the carbon footprint including growing, fermenting, producing, and distributing ethanol as a fuel. I do know that widespread usage of ethanol increased food prices and adversely affected global hunger.

I've heard that converting your car to LNG or other alternate fuels can be a big help. There are multiple benefits here, including that methane, butane, and propane all burn much cleaner than gasoline, and the inevitable blowby is easier on your oil and your engine too. A performance modification will keep your gasoline intact, so that you can switch over from the driver's seat. This is intended as a backup to get you to a refill point but it can be done while you are shifting from "D" to "2" to deal with a situation such as a short on-ramp to a dauntingly quick-moving freeway. A really nice installation would do that for you seamlessly at full throttle, or would burn the liquified gas fuel only when cruising. Imagine that, in a hybrid that uses both gasoline and electric motors on hard acceleration...

Many years ago, I came up with a long-range plan for solving the world's problems. If we manage to figure out a way to produce fusion power, and energy becomes very inexpensive and plentiful, lots of opportunities open up. The reason that most cars burn gasoline is that it has a combustion potential of 125,000 BTU per pound, so a 20-gallon tank can carry a 3,000 pound car with moderate fuel economy for 400 miles. Given cheap power, gasoline can be produced from air and water. The fusion plants may need to be near a body of water for cooling -- combine them with a desalinization plant? We are short of fresh water, too, and not just in the Near East. Otherwise they can use the water from the air. Compress air in stages, cooling it after each stage. Eventually you reach the liquid air stage, and you separate the components of the air by boiling point. The principal products are water, liquid nitrogen, liquid oxygen, carbon dioxide, and argon, with smaller amounts of lots of other things including helium. You use the carbon dioxide and water to combine them in catalyst plants to produce hydrocarbons, which you shape to form pure iso-octane, a 100 octane fuel functionally identical to gasoline. Note that this closes the carbon cycle, reducing the carbon footprint of burning this synthetic octane to zero. A kids pipe dream? Maybe. But the Nazis produced gasoline from coal during WW II and flew hig-performance aircraft that burned 50 gallons an hour of 150-octane aviation fuel and fought a war that way. The Gas Works Park in Seattle produced "natural" gas from coal until it was piped in. And your gas now is produced from other hydrocarbons by existing refineries. And liquid oxygen and nitrogen now come from plants that operate by compressing air in stages. The problem isn't the technology, it's the price of doing things that way.

[Texas Jim]

My DTS is like Warren's El Dorado's.

It is optimized for Premium fuel.

It even says in the owners manual..(yes, I have actually read it)... "Premium Fuel Recommended"

I have ran tests on it, several different times, in the first couple of years that I owned it, while on long road trips.

Premium is just a hair over 10% higher then Regular.

On the several tests I ran ...my mileage drops about 10%.

So...taking into account the EXTRA Regular gas I would need to go the same distance that I would go on a tank of Premium, it is almost dead even on the price. Maybe a buck here and there.

And one more thing... my butt dyno tells me that it does not have the power on regular that it has on Premium.

The owners manual also tells you ... there will be a decrease in power, if you run Regular.

When I had it Professionally Tuned in '08...it was tuned for Premium.

Since then, I have added quite a bit of timing and spark advance to it...along with a bunch of other things.

So in summary, I run Premium all of the time. No exceptions.

As always...Your Mileage May Vary.

[Cadillac Jim]

How do you change the spark advance? Do you (or your mechanic) have a Tech II or the equivalent?

[Ranger]

When I had it Professionally Tuned in '08...it was tuned for Premium.

How do you do that?

[Texas Jim]

I am going to have to disappoint you guys.

They changed to a new style ECM and TCM in 2006 from the older style.

Is does not have the heavy encryption that the older ECM's had.

You can use a software program called EFI Live to tune it any way you want to.

It is called FLASHSCAN V2

There are hundreds of things you can change about the engine "AND" the transmission.

After the tuner got thru with it...it was much better than stock...but I am very picky.

There were a couple of minor things I thought could be better...

I then bought the $800.00 software program so I could do more tweaking on it to get it "PERFECT"

As y'all know... I am pretty picky when it comes to my car.

I have since spent several hours reading and trying to learn what I needed to know to be able to play with it and not totally screw it up.

Which, by the way, would be VERY, VERY, EASY to do.

My son has been a huge help, he is the one that has learned it well and knows what to do to it.

He can download the info from the ECM to his laptop...modify it and then reflash the ECM.

It is a really cool program.

I am still learning...but he is a huge help to me and he does 95 percent of the code writing.

No one believes me about the way it runs or the fuel mileage it gets...considering the way I drive...but thats OK.

"I KNOW" what it does. :D :D and I don't really care what someone else thinks.

I have got to where I just don't talk about it. That way no one thinks I am stretching the truth.

[Chris_Austria]

Are there knock-sensors in the Northstar? I think many engines will adapt the ignition depending on the values they get from their knock-sensors. So the engine will recognize if premium or regular fuel is used. I tested it 2 times on my Northstar, best fuel economy was with the European 95oct (US 90oct). I could not feel a differnce regarding engine power.

[CarlaValentine]

Are there knock-sensors in the Northstar? I think many engines will adapt the ignition depending on the values they get from their knock-sensors. So the engine will recognize if premium or regular fuel is used. I tested it 2 times on my Northstar, best fuel economy was with the European 95oct (US 90oct). I could not feel a differnce regarding engine power.

Yes there is a knock sensor in the Northstar.

[Texas Jim]

Are there knock-sensors in the Northstar? I think many engines will adapt the ignition depending on the values they get from their knock-sensors. So the engine will recognize if premium or regular fuel is used. I tested it 2 times on my Northstar, best fuel economy was with the European 95oct (US 90oct). I could not feel a differnce regarding engine power.

Yes, they do have knock sensors.

And yes, they do adjust the timing to what octane fuel you are using...but only to the limits of what is pre-programmed into the ECM

On the newer ones...you can "CHANGE THE LIMITS"

On the 2006 and newer, you can adjust the sensitivity of the knock sensors...if you want to.

You can also program more ignition timing into the ECM so that when you are just cruising on the highway and the engine is under light load..the timing advances a little more for increased fuel economy.

You can also adjust the fuel slopes (mixture) for different throttle positions and different RPM's to get max performance from the engine.

All of this should be done within reasonable limits, of course.

If you do it wrong...you could destroy the engine by running it way too lean and burn a hole in a piston...or too rich and have terrible economy and clog up the converters...amoung other bad things.

On my car, I make small changes...drive it a few days...if I like it...leave it that way...if not change it back and try something else.

I have it pretty much the way I like it now. It has a nice mix of performance and economy.

Both are now a little better than when it was stock.

[WarrenJ]

I have it pretty much the way I like it now. It has a nice mix of performance and economy.

Both are now a little better than when it was stock.

I would have expected the good folk at Cadillac to have optimized the car for the best mix of performance and economy. I wonder if production variation is such that many Cadillacs would benefit from such a fine tune?

Then again, maybe their butt-tachs are different than yours?

Regards,

Warren

[CarlaValentine]

I have it pretty much the way I like it now. It has a nice mix of performance and economy.

Both are now a little better than when it was stock.

I would have expected the good folk at Cadillac to have optimized the car for the best mix of performance and economy. I wonder if production variation is such that many Cadillacs would benefit from such a fine tune?

Then again, maybe their butt-tachs are different than yours?

Regards,

Warren

It's my belief and understanding that when any company is manufacturing a car they optimize it for what THEY believe to be the best mix of performance and economy based on the AVERAGE driver of that type of car. So if you are out of that league of "average" drivers, then their standards may not be best suited for the way that YOU drive it, and you may need to make some minor adjustments to get the best performance out of it for you.

Just my 2 cents.

[Cadillac Jim]

Some people are far more picky about things like smoothness, quietness, and predictability than others, like you and me, who want throttle response, horsepower, and fuel economy and don't really care if there are ripples on the goldfish tank when the wife wants it transported across town.

Me, I don't care if there are ripples in the neighbor's swimming pool when I start the car in the morning, so long as it doesn't bother them.

[CarlaValentine]

Some people are far more picky about things like smoothness, quietness, and predictability than others, like you and me, who want throttle response, horsepower, and fuel economy and don't really care if there are ripples on the goldfish tank when the wife wants it transported across town.

Me, I don't care if there are ripples in the neighbor's swimming pool when I start the car in the morning, so long as it doesn't bother them.

I just want my car TO start in the morning....

Then I'll worry about it bothering my neighbors. Lol.

[Texas Jim]

I have it pretty much the way I like it now. It has a nice mix of performance and economy.

Both are now a little better than when it was stock.

I would have expected the good folk at Cadillac to have optimized the car for the best mix of performance and economy. I wonder if production variation is such that many Cadillacs would benefit from such a fine tune?

Then again, maybe their butt-tachs are different than yours?

Regards,

Warren

Warren,

You are right...up to a point, and yes, there are always production variations.

Another thing to remember is the demographics of the average DTS driver.

It is the little old man and the little old blue haired lady going to the country club or to the hairdresser or the Wednesday afternoon bridge game.

Cadillac has to tune it so that it fits THAT demographic...not "MY" demographic...since I must be half nuts, 'cause I want my Cadillac to RUN.

They blue haired crowd wouldn't know performance if it bit 'em.

And most of them could care less what fuel mileage it gets...within reason.

I am real picky about whatever I drive...Kinda like the Army slogan...

"Be All You Can Be"...thats what I want my car to be.

I know it can't run with a Corvette, and I don't expect it to...but the last time I met Bruce, it did do 0 to 60 in 6 flat. At the track it has ran a 10 flat 1/8 mile. It could do A LOT better if it could get better traction.

It has "REALLY BAD" wheelspin coming off of the line real hard.

I don't expect you or anyone else to really believe this...

I said in another post that I don't talk about it for just that reason...

Out on the highway...since the tune and then after me tweaking it quite a bit... even with the way I drive...it has never got less than 21 MPG.

Most of the time it is 22 to 24... driving at 80 / 90 MPH.

It gets the same mileage if you drive it at 60 / 70 MPH.

It also about the same if you drive it at 55 / 60 MPH.

I have tried to optimize it for the way that "I" drive it...which is fairly spiritedly.

I don't just putter down to the Wednesday afternoon bridge game.

My normal highway speed is 80+, depending on traffic and road conditions, of course.

Out in the west part of the country...with long straight roads, where you can see a long way in front of you...it sometimes sees well over 100 for two or three hours straight, or more.

I have not opened it up...but at 144 it is still pushing you back in the seat. (had to let off..was catching up to traffic)

I have ran it against some pretty decent cars and it always acquits itself well.

I love my Cadillac DTS. :D

PS...It makes Ricers cry.

[Texas Jim]

Some people are far more picky about things like smoothness, quietness, and predictability than others, like you and me, who want throttle response, horsepower, and fuel economy and don't really care if there are ripples on the goldfish tank when the wife wants it transported across town.

Me, I don't care if there are ripples in the neighbor's swimming pool when I start the car in the morning, so long as it doesn't bother them.

EXACTLY....Thats me.

I want it to MAKE SOME NOISE when I mash the loud pedal.

When I am at a light and touch the gas...I want INSTANT response...not a delay before it decides to go.

When I start to pass on a two lane road...I want an INSTANT DOWNSHIFT and then I want it to shove me back in the seat, as it starts singing to me and reaches for the 7000 RPM mark.

Luckily, Darling Wife has got tired of the fish. We sold all of the stuff a few years ago. Thank goodness.

All of y'all without the wonders of EVERYTHING being computer controlled, don't know how good you have it.

With EVERYTHING being under the control of the computer..."IT" decides WHEN and HOW MUCH gas to give it when you step on it.

If it thinks it is giving it TOO MUCH...it will automatically, either pull timing or reduce fuel to reduce power.

They call it TORQUE MANAGEMENT.

I can not use words on this forum to describe what I think of the TORQUE MANAGEMENT.

I would get banned. :D

"IT" decides when to shift gears and how much firmness to apply when shifting...usually very little.

One other thing it used to do...if you suddenly needed to STOMP ON IT for an immediate downshift and more power...it would wait for JUST A SECOND to MAKE SURE you really wanted to "GO" before it would "GO"

It don't do that now.

You say "GO" it "GOES"

Which is the way it should be.

I have tuned out all of the delays and firmed up the shifting at high throttle angles.

If you drive it easy...it is real nice and smooth...just as a fine Cadillac should be.

You want to get aggressive with it...it responds accordingly.

I understand that most people might not like it ... but I am not "MOST PEOPLE"

I still have the original ECM and TCM.

When I sell it or trade it, I can put them back in and it will be just like all the other Cadillacs around.

[CarlaValentine]

PS...It makes Ricers cry.

And that makes any amount of time or money spent on it WELL worth it in the end!!!!!

[WarrenJ]

PS...It makes Ricers cry.

I did in a Ricer just today . . . it took me ten minutes to stop giggling.

[CarlaValentine]

I need to get my car running right...I wanna see some ricers cry.

[WarrenJ]

I need to get my car running right...I wanna see some ricers cry.

You'll find it well worth the effort!