Northstar...could it be my headgasket?

[CarlaValentine]

WooHoo! Tomorrow is the big day! Sorry, just really happy to be getting the new plugs and wires and hopefully getting my car running again. I was talking to a friend of mine about my situation, and he said while I have the manifold cover off to check the FPR for leaks and check the fuel pressure, that it would be a good idea to check the injectors for leaks too. Would they be checked for leaks in the same fashion as the FPR? Would I have to lift the fuel rail to do this? And is it worth checking them for leaks in my situation? I just don't know how likely it is that that's a problem.

[BodybyFisher]

Here is more info on the P039

DTC P039 SET WHEN DRIVING UP SLIGHT GRADE AFTER COLD START #87-65-17 - (Jun 1, 1998)

SUBJECT: DTC P039 SET WHEN DRIVING UP SLIGHT GRADE AFTER COLD START (DIAGNOSE/INSTALL NEW PCM)

MODELS: 1993-95 CADILLAC ELDORADO, SEVILLE 1994-95 CADILLAC CONCOURS, DEVILLE WITH 4.6L ENGINE (VIN Y - RPO LD8)

CONDITION:

DTC CODE P039, TORQUE CONVERTER CLUTCH ENGAGEMENT, MAY SET WHEN DRIVING UP A SLIGHT GRADE AFTER A COLD START.

CORRECTION:

A PCM CALIBRATION ENHANCEMENT HAS BEEN RELEASED FOR THE ABOVE LISTED VEHICLES. IF A VEHICLE IS ENCOUNTERED WITH THIS CONDITION, AND ALL OF THE DIAGNOSTIC PROCEDURES LISTED IN THE SERVICE MANUAL HAVE BEEN PERFORMED, WITH NO RESULTING CORRECTION, THEN UPDATE THE VEHICLE WITH THE APPLICABLE CALIBRATION LISTED BELOW.

PARTS INFORMATION:

PART NUMBER DESCRIPTION 16266755 1993 PCM PROM 16266762 1994 PCM PROM 16266767 1995 PCM PROM

[jackc]

WooHoo! Tomorrow is the big day! Sorry, just really happy to be getting the new plugs and wires and hopefully getting my car running again. I was talking to a friend of mine about my situation, and he said while I have the manifold cover off to check the FPR for leaks and check the fuel pressure, that it would be a good idea to check the injectors for leaks too. Would they be checked for leaks in the same fashion as the FPR? Would I have to lift the fuel rail to do this? And is it worth checking them for leaks in my situation? I just don't know how likely it is that that's a problem.

When you get the lid off of the intake manifold, you'll find that it's probably impossible to see the bottoms of the injectors with everything in place and pressurized. The 95-up models are much easier to work with from that standpoint, because the fuel rail is no longer inside the plenum box.

[CarlaValentine]

Unfortunately, I didn't get to change out my plugs and wires, or check the FPR or fuel pressure today. My babysitter bailed on me, and I couldn't leave my 3 kids in the house alone to go out and work on the car. My boyfriend has tomorrow off work, so I plan on devoting the day tomorrow to my car. After my kids went to bed, I went out with a flashlight to look around under the hood for any loose vacuum lines, and also to get a good look at the different bolts/screws I will be dealing with so I could get together the appropriate tools for tomorrow. I couldn't find any loose vacuum hoses, but what I did find is that my PCV valve is sticking up out of the valve cover, and it won't seat right. I tried pulling it up and pushing it back down, but it just pops back up to where it started out. It also looks like there is oil leaking from around it, and there is definitely oil leaking all the way around the rear valve cover. (I wasn't aware until now that the rear cover was plastic...) Here's a picture of what the PCV valve looks like looking at it from the front of the car. The coil pack is on the right.

Is that how it's supposed to sit in there? Because it doesn't look right to me. I plan on putting a new one in after I am done with everything else, but I don't want to have the same seating problem (if it's a problem) with the new one. Any suggestions?

[BodybyFisher]

Try to seat it, if wires are in the way reroute them, it should sit flat

[CarlaValentine]

There aren't any wires in the way at all, it just doesn't want to sit flat. I'll get a new one in the morning, along with a new connector hose and hope for the best. On the to-do list tomorrow is:

-New plugs and wires

-New air filter

-New PCV valve

-Check FPR (replace if needed)

-Check Fuel pressure

-Cleanup of EGR system (finally got a new gasket)

Hopefully after all of this, my car will come back to life.

I'm getting sick of driving around an Oldsmobile Intrigue. It's a decent car and all, but it sure ain't my Cadillac.

[jackc]

................my PCV valve is sticking up out of the valve cover, and it won't seat right............

Any suggestions?

You probably need to replace the rubber PCV grommet in the valve cover

[BodybyFisher]

There aren't any wires in the way at all, it just doesn't want to sit flat. I'll get a new one in the morning, along with a new connector hose and hope for the best. On the to-do list tomorrow is:

-New plugs and wires

-New air filter

-New PCV valve

-Check FPR (replace if needed)

-Check Fuel pressure

-Cleanup of EGR system (finally got a new gasket)

Hopefully after all of this, my car will come back to life.

I'm getting sick of driving around an Oldsmobile Intrigue. It's a decent car and all, but it sure ain't my Cadillac.

Remember don't start the engine with the cover off, it will accelerate uncontrollably. I saw my friend yesterday and got my 95 factory service manual back from him because of your diagnostics and issues, so if you run into a jam, I should be able to help, 94 and 95 are close.

Later I will find a thread that explains the phenolic spacer and mouse hole clean out, I think we have a couple of posts from the guru. Whatever you do, avoid breathing EGR dust and dirt, its very toxic to you.

[jackc]

I've done the EGR cleaning on a 93, which uses the same intake as a 94.

The EGR passages are cast into the heads. The phenolic spacers sit between the heads and the intake, and form the top of the passages.

To clean the passages, you need to get the intake up (or off, as I did) and scrape out the passages. You'll need a shop vac to suck out the scrapings.

There are small holes that go from the passages to each cylinder, and also holes at the end of the passages that go into the crossover pipe (water log) that the EGR valve mounts to.

To remove the intake, its only necessary to remove the 4 long bolts in the middle of the intake.

There is another thread that describes doing the job by lifting and blocking-up the intake. I'm not sure how well you'd be able able to see everything that way, but apparently it is doable.

My passages were about 50% blocked at 100k miles.

[BodybyFisher]

Here is a prior post by the guru - bbobynski, that I pulled from another thread that was posted by Scotty. The last post in the thread I linked you to shows how to check the fuel pressure regulator

Here is the link to that thread > http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=5803

**************************************************************************

Here are prior posts by bbobynski regarding the phenolic plates:

There is no nead to clean out the manifold itself or even to take the cover off. Just remove the inner 4 bolts that are recessed into the cover and the entire manifold will lift up.

All the gaskets should be reusable. Have some RTV handy so if one of the gaskets is damaged or torn you can patch it locally with a dab of the RTV.

The phenolic plates are all that need to be cleaned. Just scrape the carbon out of the recessed passages with different size screwdrivers and such. Nothing fancy.

The recessed slots in the head surface are also good to clean out and the mouse holes mentioned that are machined into the cylinder heads are very important to clean out. Those are the small machined notches at each intake port.

There is also a hole in the cylinder head at each end that leads towards the rear of the engine that feeds the EGR into the phenolic plates that should be checked. It is usually pretty clean but it should be checked for carbon buildup.

Remember that the idea is to get the majority of the carbon out of the grooves in the phenolic spacer plates. It is going to get sooty again pretty soon so you don't need to be squeeky clean...just clean the majority of the crud out and let'er rip.

**********************************************************

Frequent doses of WOT will exercise the rings and keep the combustion chambers clean....but.....will likely have little or no effect towards cleaning out the phenolic spacer plates... The WOT/decel manuevers are purely to exercise the rings and keep the combustion chambers clean...not the EGR system. The EGR system only operates at part throttle....so...full throttle operation disables it and has no effect on it.

The EGR passages in the phenolic spacer plates eventually clog up with carbon simply due to the EGR flow and the soot from the exhuast gases accumulating over 100K of operation. No way around it...just have to remove them and clean them.

Understand that ONLY the 93/94 engines have the phenolic spacer plates between the intake manifold and the cylinder heads. The 93/94 engines have the large diecast intake manifold "box" with the perimter row of screws in the lid holding the silver top cover on. That is the intake system that has the phenolic spacer plates for the individual cylinder EGR introduction. The 95 and later engines have the one piece injection molded plastic intake with the single point EGR introduction into the intake plenum. The 95 and later engines have the silver top cover that is just a beauty cover...not a functional part like the 93/94 covers were (the top of the intake manifold).

So...WOT will NOT keep the phenolic spacer passages clean...but...you only need to worry about cleaning them if you have a 93 or 94 Northstar.

[PAUL T]

I just lifted the manifold up and used some 2x2 wood blocks to hold it up enough to remove the phenolic plates. I used a vacuum cleaner to clean the head. Mine was really dirty. Gaskets are reuseable they just have to be seated carefully. It is fairly easy. Take out the 4 bolts and lift it up and slide the plates out clean them and put them back in. I think there were pins to help you line up the plates on the heads.

[BodybyFisher]

I just lifted the manifold up and used some 2x2 wood blocks to hold it up enough to remove the phenolic plates. I used a vacuum cleaner to clean the head. Mine was really dirty. Gaskets are reuseable they just have to be seated carefully. It is fairly easy. Take out the 4 bolts and lift it up and slide the plates out clean them and put them back in. I think there were pins to help you line up the plates on the heads.

Paul, how is the fuel line connected (Quick Connect?), does it help to disconnect the fuel line?

[CarlaValentine]

I got off to a really late start working on the car today. I was getting ready to take off the coil pack, and pulled the electrical connectors off both ends of it, looked at them, and found this.

I know the corrosion on the terminals isn't a huge set back since I can most likely clean them off. They don't appear to be eroded at all. What troubles me is that there appear to be 3 missing terminals from the connectors. The ones on the other end of the coil pack are in perfect condition, and aren't missing any terminals at all. Is this how they should look, or am I right in assuming that they are missing the 3 terminals in the empty spaces? If that's the case, then I would say I am dealing with a little more than spark plug problems here, and it would also make sense to me being that I have 3 dead cylinders...and 3 "missing" terminals.

[BodybyFisher]

Don't worry about that, that is correct, nothing is missing

[CarlaValentine]

I figured I would update everyone on the progress on my car. I spent 2 hours last night, and about 4 hours today outside working on it. I can't do too much at once. I have Fibromyalgia, and the combination of the cold and being bent over under the hood of the car aren't a very good combination for me. Here's what I have done so far:

I changed the spark plugs and wires. While unhooking the ICM last night I ran into a problem with some corroded connectors. I managed to get them cleaned up with no harm done today with some contact cleaner and a toothbrush before hooking everything back up. The rear plugs gave me some trouble, but I did get them done, finally.

I changed the PCV valve.

I changed the air filter.

I cleaned the throttle body.

Still on my list to do (tomorrow) is: EGR cleanup (waiting on a shop vac) and fuel pressure / FPR check

After I was done with everything tonight, I started her up to see how she ran. No spits, sputters, misfires, or stumbles at all. It didn't try to stall. The idle was still a little high (about 900) but it is running A LOT better. Still not perfect, but better anyway. I didn't take it for a test drive yet. I'm waiting until tomorrow when I have daylight, just in case it does stall and I do get stranded. It's taking me some time to get things done, but it's getting done. Working outside in 25 degrees ain't no picnic, lol. I'll post back after my test drive and my fuel system check / EGR cleanout tomorrow.

[Texas Jim]

Very good.

You are doing a great job.

I don't think I would want to spend that much time in the cold any more working on my car.

Back in my younger days, it wouldn't have been quite so bad, but I have got soft in my older years.

Reckon I could still do it "IF I HAD TO"... but I sure don't want to.

You mentioned the high idle...mine idles fast for a little bit, around 1000 RPM, when I start it and it is cold out.

[adallak]

The idle was still a little high (about 900) but it is running A LOT better.

Good job! You can only evaluate the RPM while idling at operational temperature (around 200F for Northstar). If you let it warm up, the idle will go down to normal. You see higher RPM at start up because it is colder outside.

[CarlaValentine]

Yeah, I didn't let it idle for very long really...only about 5 minutes or so. I decided after that it was time to come upstairs and eat dinner. =) Plus I heard something rubbing on a pulley (it was the plastic guard for the plug wires...darn thing) so I shut it off to fix that before it became a problem. It'll get a good run tomorrow, provided it STAYS running that long. I'm keeping my fingers crossed!

[PAUL T]

I just lifted the manifold up and used some 2x2 wood blocks to hold it up enough to remove the phenolic plates. I used a vacuum cleaner to clean the head. Mine was really dirty. Gaskets are reuseable they just have to be seated carefully. It is fairly easy. Take out the 4 bolts and lift it up and slide the plates out clean them and put them back in. I think there were pins to help you line up the plates on the heads.

Paul, how is the fuel line connected (Quick Connect?), does it help to disconnect the fuel line?

Yes, if you disconnect the fuel line, wiring harness, and a few hoses it just lifts right out. I think it does have quick connects.

[CarlaValentine]

I figured I'd put this on here for anyone who may be interested. These are pics of the spark plugs I pulled out of my car. Amazingly they ALL still had their platinum pads on them, and none of them looked terrible. I've yet to do any more work on it or take it for a test drive thanks to the torrential downpour we have had here, but she's purring like a kitten at an idle now...even after revving her up a bit.

Now if this stupid rain will stop so I can get her out on the road..

[BodybyFisher]

Tell me of I am wrong but some of those gaps appear pretty big, have you check their gaps?

[CarlaValentine]

I haven't actually. I HAD a gap gauge I used to keep on my keys, but I guess it must have come off without me noticing... I'm gonna pick one up at the parts store next time I am out and about because I am a little curious about that myself. Comparing them side-by-side with the new ones, they did look a little off, but it's really hard to tell without a gauge. Also, for the record, I went with AC Delco for the new ones.

Oh, and one more question... Is the orange-ish burnt look that appears on the ceramic of some of them (most noticeably on #3) normal?

[KHE]

Check the plug gaps - some (most?) of the plugs appear to be missing the platinum pad on the ground electrodes.

[CarlaValentine]

Check the plug gaps - some (most?) of the plugs appear to be missing the platinum pad on the ground electrodes.

Actually, all the pads are still there. I was surprised at that.

[Ranger]

I haven't actually. I HAD a gap gauge I used to keep on my keys, but I guess it must have come off without me noticing... I'm gonna pick one up at the parts store next time I am out and about because I am a little curious about that myself. Comparing them side-by-side with the new ones, they did look a little off, but it's really hard to tell without a gauge. Also, for the record, I went with AC Delco for the new ones.

Oh, and one more question... Is the orange-ish burnt look that appears on the ceramic of some of them (most noticeably on #3) normal?

Yeah, nothing to be concerned about.