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Stripped main bearing bolts


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I have been through this a bunch of times, and I have a theory. Some disagree with me and that is ok. I will know more when and if I finally do this job, but

The upper and low case halves have a seal between them. As many of us know, that 'seal' can leak externally

We had a member come here and tell us that his local Cadillac dealer said, that his low pressure at idle was caused by the case half leak that he had. Initially I thought, what a load of crap. But then I looked at the oil galley's in the case halves, and the fact that the case half seal, seals these oil galleys. A leak at the oil galley could drop the oil pressure at idle enough to trigger the low oil pressure switch. If this leak was internal, you would never see it.

You can see the oil galley clearly in this photo. I partially highlighted the seal lip location in the photo in red

engine_20004-1.jpg

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

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  • 3 weeks later...

hi again... its been a week or three since I last posted here about my progress on the DeVille. I was worried about wow I would keep all the aluminum shavings out of the block while drilling for the time serts. What I came up with is simple. Masking tape, and some play-dough. I haven't been able to do a lot of work on it due to the fact that Atlanta has been having some cold weather, and I'm performing surgery in the car port. Currently the temperature is about 20 degrees, with snow and a lot of ice from yesterday. Us southern folks don't handle cold so well. I used small bits of play-dough to block off some of the cross over passages that masking tape wouldn't cover. Oh, by the way, at the last minute I discovered that the crankshaft would have to be removed from the block to allow the guide plate to sit flat. Wasn't so happy about that as I didn't want to remove the heads in order to get the rods out of my way. Turns out that with careful guidance and a lot of cussin' I was able to remove the rod caps and push the pistons down in the cylinder enough to clear everything. I also priced some new bearings while I was in there. Main Bearings will run about $70 and the darn rod bearings are $235 give or take a couple bucks depending on where you go. WOW! I took some pics of the masking tape job, as well as the first bolt I drilled. I'm gonna try to figure out how to post them for you guys, but just so you know I'm not the best with computers.

OK, so I need some help on loading pics here. Whats the secret using windows XP??? :huh:

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Go to www.photobucket.com Start and account, upload the photos, link the PHOTOS here

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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  • 2 weeks later...
Hi again... I just received en email from time-sert. The main bearing kit costs $353!! Arghhhh. I have to admit this is really frustrating but its something that has to be done. The stud kit for the heads runs around $550 for those who don't already know. Personally, I think that's a lot of money for what you really get in parts, but then again its a solution to a problem and its cheaper than a new engine. I really wish GM would have done some sort of recall about this, but I know they wouldn't fancy footing the bill for so many Northstars.... :fighting0025:

try this website www.cadillacexperts.com over 700 remans no failures they use insert sleeves long ones.

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Ok.. thanks. I'll get on that in a few. Now...... I've gotten all the inserts installed, and since I scratched the bejesus out of two of the rod bearings, I decided to replace all of them and the main bearings as well. They got here yesterday, with thanks to Summit Racing. If this rain would stop for a while I'd get the crank back in, but do not want any of the airborne moisture getting inside the engine. One of these days I'll get this thing complete. QUESTION--- I need to know the rod torque specs and if there is some special way to do them. ANYONE???

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you are planning on selling the timesert kit, right? i did and it only cost me $20 when it was all said and done. almost free.

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Not sure as of yet. I've got two guys at work that both have a Deville, and I just know its a matter of time. One already has a head gasket failure, but doesn't have enough money for me to fix it yet. Time will tell.... I might need to hang on to it for a while.

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  • 2 months later...

hi guys... I got the caddy's engine back together and reinstalled in the car. After a little persuasion, she fired up and ran pretty good. It was obvious to me that the engine had been sitting for quite some time before I purchased it. It almost seemed to be building up compression.. Weird I know. Anyway, I do have an interesting issue to deal with. Several times I have had the low oil pressure light come on. I have no idea why either. I replaced the oil manifold plate when I was in the engine as well as all of the lower bearings in the rotating assembly. When the engine is warm, I do hear a bit of a knock in there, and that tells me that the oil pressure is indeed low. Is there a place where I can attach a manual pressure gauge in the block that won't require removing half of the engine? I'm also wondering at what temp the engine should normally run as well as what temp the fans should kick on. (when just sitting and idling.) I have seen 220' and no fans, and that makes me nervous, so I shut it down. I broke the new bearings in properly before I ever saw the oil pressure problem start to happen. I also have another issue. #8 cylinder misfire. There are new wires and AC Delco platinum plugs installed. Spark tester says its firing, so I'm suspecting a weak coil. I'll swap it out with one of the ones that were on the old engine, and go from there. Any ideas or suggestions?

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Did you torque the balancer bolt to the proper spec.? There is an initial torque plus 120 degrees (which results in the bolt being very tight). If the balancer bolt is not tight, the oil pump will not be driven and low oil pressure, knocking, etc. will result.

There is a port on the oil filter adapter for a gage.

Kevin
'93 Fleetwood Brougham
'05 Deville
'04 Deville
2013 Silverado Z71

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I'm not so sure i torqued it properly... If I remember I hit it with the impact to seat the balancer back on the crank, but I do know that it was pretty tight. Is there a way to double check it in the car? I'd hate to remove the engine just for that. Remember I don't have a lift and had to bring it out the top of the car. There isn't much room between the bolt and the body... guess you know that already though. That could very well be my issue. Its only alerted to low pressure at idle. I've topped out the thing at 110 mph before the computer shut down the fuel pump with no problems.

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Here is info on a low oil pressure condition and torque. As you can see one of the items is balancer torque as KHE noted. You might check the oil pressure switch also. Did you replace the oil pump? Did you inspect it for proper clearances?

CAUSE:

LACK OF OIL PRESSURE MAY BE CAUSED BY:

- PARTICLES FROM THE MANUFACTURING PROCESS STICKING THE OIL PUMP RELIEF VALVE, NOT ALLOWING THE VALVE TO SEAL TO ITS SEAT WHICH DOES NOT ALLOW THE PUMP TO PRIME.

- A LOOSE HARMONIC BALANCER BOLT WHICH WILL RESULT IN THE OIL PUMP NOT TURNING.

CORRECTION:

ENSURE THE HARMONIC BALANCER BOLT IS TIGHTEN TO SPEC. THE CORRECT TORQUE VALUE FOR THIS BOLT IS 60 N.M (44 LB FT) PLUS 120 DEGREES FOR 1993-95 ENGINES WITH AN M18 BOLT AND 50 N.M (37 LB FT) PLUS 120 DEGREES FOR 1996 ENGINES WITH AN M14 BOLT

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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You can access the harmonic balancer bolt through the wheel well, no?

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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Ok, good, but....you posted links to the photos, there is a way to LINK TO PHOTO...... and the photo will show here... try that. For some reason your links are not working

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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Low or No Oil Pressure

Low or No Oil Pressure

The following can cause low or no oil pressure:

  • Low oil level -- fill to the full mark on the oil level indicator.
  • Slow idle speed
  • Incorrect or malfunctioning oil pressure switch -- replace the oil pressure switch.
  • Incorrect or malfunctioning oil pressure gage -- replace the oil pressure gage.
  • Improper oil viscosity or diluted oil
    • Install oil of proper viscosity for expected temperature.
    • Install new oil if it is diluted.

    [*]The oil pump is worn or dirty -- clean or replace the oil pump.[*]The oil filter is plugged -- replace the oil filter.[*]The oil pickup screen is loose or plugged -- replace the oil pickup screen.[*]A hole in the oil pickup tube -- replace the oil pickup tube.[*]Excessive bearing clearance -- replace the bearings.[*]Cracked, porous, or plugged oil galleries -- repair or replace the engine block.[*]The gallery plugs are missing or improperly installed -- install or repair as necessary.[*]The pressure regulator valve is stuck.

    • Check the pressure regulator valve for sticking in the bore.
    • Check the bore for scoring and burrs.

    [*]The camshaft is worn or poorly machined -- replace the camshaft.[*]Worn valve guides -- repair as needed.

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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You can access the balancer bolt by removing the tire and the splash shield. You miche need to lower the cradle slightly which is not a big deal - just unhook the suspension sensors from the ball-studs on the cradle.

The torque spec. for the balancer bolt is 37 ft-lbs. plus 120 degrees. Loosen the bolt, then torque it to 37 ft-lbs. The put a paint mark on the bolt head aligned with the spoke on the balancer. Tighten the bolt with an impact wrench until the paint mark on the bolt lines up with the next spoke on the balancer.

Kevin
'93 Fleetwood Brougham
'05 Deville
'04 Deville
2013 Silverado Z71

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  • 3 weeks later...

so... Now I have replaced the oil pump and the pressure switch with new ones, and torqued the balancer correctly. No fix. The pressure drops as soon as the oil warms up and starts to get a little thinner. I'm using WIX filters and Mobil 5000 drive clean oil in a 10w30 weight.(non synthetic) As soon as it gets warm I hear that deep internal thumping that tells me the oil light is about to come on, and sure enough it does. I immediately shut her down. WTH?? new parts are as follows: rod and main bearings, oil pump, oil pressure switch, time serted lower end, oil distribution plate, case half seals, oil pan seal, front and rear main seal, timing cover seal, valve cover seals, intake gaskets, Delco platinum plugs, plug wires. What else can I try? I'm getting close to setting it on fire!!! I've even had the windshield replaced and put new ceramic brakes on. The oil pick-up was cleaned as well ... I don't know what else to do anymore...

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What about the oil pickup?, was the pipe seal replaced?

How did you replace the main bearings?, stock bearings?, was the clearance checked?

Did you replace the oil manifold plate?

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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  • 1 month later...

Hey folks... I'm the proud owner of 3 Caddy's. There is a '90 and '91 Fleetwood Brougham and my latest a '97 Deville. The '97 Deville is the one I'm having problems with. I bought this car at an auction at work for $430 and it is really clean. It did have the common blown head gaskets (and a cracked rear head). I picked up another used engine from a reputable salvage yard with the mileage claiming to be 89,900 miles for $800. Before installing this engine I replaced every gasket on it with the exception of the head gaskets. When I had the engine on the stand and replacing the oil manifold plate, I had to remove the main bearing bolts and the bearing caps to access the small ribbon gaskets located on the main part of the block (i used the GM gasket sealer since those "ribbon gaskets" are no longer available). The parts man at the dealer printed out the torque specs and sequence for me. It called for an initial torque on the main bearings to be 15 ft lbs of torque in sequence followed by another 65 degrees. I purchased a torque angle gauge from my snap on guy. So on the 4th bolt, at about 30 degrees it got really easy to turn. Yeah, it stripped out. I asked my parts man at the Cadillac dealer if I needed to buy new bolts when I was buying the gaskets. He said no. I'm wondering if those are TTY bolts now... Anyway.. What do I need to do now to fix this? I have a feeling that there may be more that will strip out as well. I'm guessing by now that I'm not the only poor soul to have this problem. By the way, this car is a Christmas present to my lady, she just doesn't know it yet. Any ideas???

Hey, could you possibly post the torque sequences for the main bearing bolts and the the crankcase halves too if you got them still. I'm going to go try at the dealer near here, but they're usually not too helpfull. Thanks

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Hey folks... I'm the proud owner of 3 Caddy's. There is a '90 and '91 Fleetwood Brougham and my latest a '97 Deville. The '97 Deville is the one I'm having problems with. I bought this car at an auction at work for $430 and it is really clean. It did have the common blown head gaskets (and a cracked rear head). I picked up another used engine from a reputable salvage yard with the mileage claiming to be 89,900 miles for $800. Before installing this engine I replaced every gasket on it with the exception of the head gaskets. When I had the engine on the stand and replacing the oil manifold plate, I had to remove the main bearing bolts and the bearing caps to access the small ribbon gaskets located on the main part of the block (i used the GM gasket sealer since those "ribbon gaskets" are no longer available). The parts man at the dealer printed out the torque specs and sequence for me. It called for an initial torque on the main bearings to be 15 ft lbs of torque in sequence followed by another 65 degrees. I purchased a torque angle gauge from my snap on guy. So on the 4th bolt, at about 30 degrees it got really easy to turn. Yeah, it stripped out. I asked my parts man at the Cadillac dealer if I needed to buy new bolts when I was buying the gaskets. He said no. I'm wondering if those are TTY bolts now... Anyway.. What do I need to do now to fix this? I have a feeling that there may be more that will strip out as well. I'm guessing by now that I'm not the only poor soul to have this problem. By the way, this car is a Christmas present to my lady, she just doesn't know it yet. Any ideas???

Hey, could you possibly post the torque sequences for the main bearing bolts and the the crankcase halves too if you got them still. I'm going to go try at the dealer near here, but they're usually not too helpfull. Thanks

This is out of the GM SI service manual, the torque spec MIGHT have been updated so verify that it still is correct

Main Bearing Bolt/Stud (In Sequence) 15 ft lbs + 65 degrees

Here is the tightening sequence

MainBearingSequence.gif

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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I asked Autozone for the sequences, and they gave me this http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=30252&st=0&p=169259&fromsearch=1entry169259 main bearing sequence. The dealership tried to describe it to me over the phone... which didn't go so well, since they were busy.. but he mentioned that he goes in a spiral pattern. Could you look over the post/topic and reply there if you happen to know if the perimeter case bolts (the exterior ones) have to be in sequence. And also repost that picture if that's a good idea. You know so other people could get to it easier if they also have the same question. And maybe it will refresh someone's memory as to which one is more up to date.

ha, i thought your name was bobby fisher.. anyway, thanks!

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