gc_caddy Posted June 25, 2004 Report Share Posted June 25, 2004 Thought is was about time to clean the EGR valve and phenolic spacers in my 94 STS, 106K miles. Symptoms: As I let up on the throttle at speed, the engine intermitently stumbles. Codes were not being set, except once - P071 MAP sensor. I cleaned the EGR valve (found a small amount of carbon and the pintle moved freely); I cleaned the throttle body (fair bit of carbon, cleaned all around and the back of the plate). When I got to the phenolic spacers, I removed the air intake, removed the 4 inner bolts and then lifted up the manifold from the passenger side. (It was quite tough to lift the manifold very high.) I shined a flashlight into the ports. There was very little carbon, even the mouse holes where very clear. It was mostly "wet" and a bit oily/gassy smelling. My question is: should I have seen lots of carbon in the ports? I read previous posts that said carbon was overflowing, etc. I did not see anything of that sort peering into the port. As such, I decided not remove the spacers, and just buttoned everything back up. Now I'm thinking that maybe the "carbon" was within the phenolic spacers - that I can't visibly see it until I remove the spacers from the vehicle? Is this correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STYES Posted June 26, 2004 Report Share Posted June 26, 2004 Correct me if I am wrong here Guru. A consistent dose of WOT combined with hard decel procedures should all but eliminate the need for a disassembly to clean the carbon out from my experiences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gc_caddy Posted June 26, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2004 Thanks a lot, BB! I really appreciate your knowledge and advice. I'll remove the spacers and get down to cleaning now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regis Posted June 26, 2004 Report Share Posted June 26, 2004 Helps if you have a friend give you a hand. Makes the job go a whole lot smoother, faster, and at the very least he/she can make sure the plates and all don't come crashing down on your fingers as you scrape the carbon out. When "we" did mine 1-2 years ago Dave (mechanic) scraped and I followed with a shop-vac. Breezed right throught it with the help of the info posted on this site, of course. -kg 207,000 miles "Burns" rubber " I've never considered myself to be all that conservative, but it seems the more liberal some people get the more conservative I become. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC Posted June 27, 2004 Report Share Posted June 27, 2004 I’m not trying to be sarcastic, but if my engine is running smooth why would I want to clean the phenolic spacers? If the spacers need cleaning will there be a signal of some kind? MAC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regis Posted June 27, 2004 Report Share Posted June 27, 2004 I’m not trying to be sarcastic, but if my engine is running smooth why would I want to clean the phenolic spacers? If the spacers need cleaning will there be a signal of some kind? MAC Good question! Hey if it's running good I certainly wouldn't mess with it either. How many miles on your car? Usually it will need the cleaning around 100,000 miles or more I believe. On mine I experienced stuttering, hesitation, idle speed swings, and overall loss in power. After I cleaned the carbon out all was better. -kg 207,000 miles "Burns" rubber " I've never considered myself to be all that conservative, but it seems the more liberal some people get the more conservative I become. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC Posted June 27, 2004 Report Share Posted June 27, 2004 kger2, My Eldorado has 161,000. I have notice idle speed swings from time-to-time when waiting for traffic lights. There is no hesitation or stuttering. I have also noticed some power loss, but I attribute this to the defective torque converter. Since the recommended servicing of the spacers is 100,000, I'll check them within the next week or so, weather permitting. Hopefully, I won’t end up creating problems. MAC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
growe3 Posted June 27, 2004 Report Share Posted June 27, 2004 A caution on cleaning the spacers. The actual cleaning is not hard once you get the intake manifold out of the way, but be careful to not allow any of the crud,goop, sludge, etc. fall into the intake ports. This material could get caught under a valve and cause problems. After removing the spacers to clean them on a bench, I recomend duct taping the intake ports, to avoid any material falling in them. After the head grooves are cleanremove the tape and clean each groove,from the port to the EGR tunnel by pulling from the port to the groove with a small screwdriver or similar tool. Replacing the gaskets is best, but if carefully cleaned they can be used again. -George Drive'em like you own 'em. - ....................04 DTS............................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gc_caddy Posted June 28, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2004 ..., I recomend duct taping the intake ports, to avoid any material falling in them. ... Great suggestion regarding the use of duct tape to seal the ports during cleaning, I was just going to stuff them with a shop rag, but duct tape seems like a much better idea. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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