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Brake Issues


Bronson

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Almost a year ago I replaced both struts with original Delco as well as the stablizer bar bushings. End of last year I had a complete brake job done replacing all four roters. The end of April Eibach springs were installed, had to go back to mechanic, both strut mounts replaced. I now experience ocassional pulsing in the brakes. It is normally fine even under somewhat hard braking. There are times though that under hard braking the stering wheel will move back and forth almost an inch or more very quickly slowing down gradually intil the car comes to a stop. It also seems at times when you slowly come to a stop that the car lopes along as if the roters are diffierent thickness in certain areas on the roters. I've read posts on pads and roters and issues with both but these issues do not happen with any consistancy only some of the time. There are times when this happens that I can hear something as if metal to metal is rubbing , like when the bads are down to the metal but not anywhere near as loud. I've pulled the wheel to inspect and can't find anything loose, pads and the roter look like new. I'm wondering if it could be something with the wheel bearings allowing the roter to slightly move around on the spindle or something. When this issue happens I can feel it through the steering wheel and the sound seems to change when I turn slightly from left to right. When riding over certain bumps in the road it seems as if the sound the suspension makes is different on the left vs the right, sounds as if something my be loose or if there is some play in the suspension. Could it be a bad bushing on the stablizer bar, I havn't ck it lately as it was replaced not quite a year ago.

I do know that the front end has been taken apart a couple of times recently, once to install springs and then the strut mounts, doesn't that require pulling the roters and all of that stuff to accomplish?

Thanks for your time in responding

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The squeeling noise may be the result of the air deflector shield hitting the rotor. It is easy to bend it so it doesn't touch the rotors.

As far as the brakes pulsing, have you checked the runout and thickness of the rotors?

If the car pulls to one side during braking, it is usually the opposite side caliper that is hanging up - if the car pulls to the left during braking, the right caliper piston may be corroded in the bore.

Kevin
'93 Fleetwood Brougham
'05 Deville
'04 Deville
2013 Silverado Z71

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I've checked the sheild when I pulled the wheel off and can't see where it could be making contact anywhere, the car stops pretty much straight and true, doesn't pull to once side or the other. None of this happens at highway speeds. It's only noticeable say from 40 mph or slower. I have not checked anything about the roters they have about 6000 miles on them now, the car currently only has 46500

Thanks

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I have been having the same problem with my '93 for about a year and a half. I had the rotors replaced three times :angry: (twice under warranty). Each time, the car is fine for a month or two, then the pulsing starts again. In desperation, went to a different mechanic, thinking that the first guy might have been using cheap "hong kong" parts, but then had to go back again after a short time, and have them replaced yet again under warranty. Still dealing with it, but will now have to find a good Caddy guy down here in Florida, as I have just moved. This is bizzare :wacko:

Tim

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The pulsing is one thing but the metal to metal sound that I sometings get is what concerns me the most. We I have time I'm going to have someone pull the roter and take a look at the bearings, also to see if the roter was installed correctly with the bearings on the spindle, for some reason I feel that the sound is coming from there. I remember reading in a post somewhere about a sound coming from the hub bearing when turning in one direction or the other.

Anyone with any ideas would be greatly appreciated. Is this possible?

If you find a "goood" Caddy guy here in FL please let me know!

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I've checked the sheild when I pulled the wheel off and can't see where it could be making contact anywhere, the car stops pretty much straight and true, doesn't pull to once side or the other. None of this happens at highway speeds. It's only noticeable say from 40 mph or slower. I have not checked anything about the roters they have about 6000 miles on them now, the car currently only has 46500

Thanks

Bronson, what make of pads are you using, how old are they, and did you resurface the rotors when they were installed?

One of the problems with using non OEM pads that I have discovered is that they 'may' or occasionally squeel, that is the main reason i use AC DELCO to eliminate that possibility.

I currently have the pulsing myself but only at high speed braking at say 55 and up and hard braking so its not too annoying. I plan to do front brakes and buy new rotors (drilled or slotted im not sure) at that time. If your pads are relatively new, you may be able to pull the rotors have them cleaned up and re-bed them.

If you have not seen it, this article for great info, note how the transfer of brake material to the rotors is so damaging to braking quality, Mike

http://www.stoptech.com/whitepapers/warped_rotors_myth.htm

Early on sailors navigated by the stars at night and the North star became the symbol for finding ones way home. Once you know where the Northstar is you can point your ship in the right direction to get home. So the star became a symbol for finding ones way home or more symbolically even finding ones path in life.

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If the car pulls to one side during braking, it is usually the opposite side caliper that is hanging up - if the car pulls to the left during braking, the right caliper piston may be corroded in the bore.

Great point Kevin, I never considered that, I though that pulling indicated a problem with the wheel on the side of the pull which is sometimes can be, but you made me re-think it. Mike

Early on sailors navigated by the stars at night and the North star became the symbol for finding ones way home. Once you know where the Northstar is you can point your ship in the right direction to get home. So the star became a symbol for finding ones way home or more symbolically even finding ones path in life.

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The brakes don't make any noise even when I abuse them, when I had the brakes done about 6000 miles ago I went back with ceramic pads and replaced all four roters. The reason I brought up the pulsing was because I hear this sound when it happens. I want to replace the roters anyway when I can get some extra bucks, drilled/sloted I'm not sure now.

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If the car is in alignment yet it still pulls to one side or the other while not braking, it could be the tire on the side of the "pull direction". If the car only pulls during braking, it's usually the opposite side caliper.

Kevin
'93 Fleetwood Brougham
'05 Deville
'04 Deville
2013 Silverado Z71

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The brakes don't make any noise even when I abuse them, when I had the brakes done about 6000 miles ago I went back with ceramic pads and replaced all four roters. The reason I brought up the pulsing was because I hear this sound when it happens. I want to replace the roters anyway when I can get some extra bucks, drilled/sloted I'm not sure now.

The pulsing of your brakes could be violent enough to be 'jogging' other components like your strut rod, tie rods and yes like you said your stabilizer bar. If your bushings are worn badly I would think that the pulsing could elicit noise from other areas. My experience is that your stabilizer bar bushings would be exposed by rough roads not front and back motion caused by pulsing. I would look at your strut rod bushings, Lets stay in touch about the drilled/slotted rotor decision, Mike

Early on sailors navigated by the stars at night and the North star became the symbol for finding ones way home. Once you know where the Northstar is you can point your ship in the right direction to get home. So the star became a symbol for finding ones way home or more symbolically even finding ones path in life.

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I remember reading in a post somewhere about a sound coming from the hub bearing when turning in one direction or the other

Generally speaking, when a hub bearing begins to go, you will get a grinding or whining noise on braking or turning, due obviously to the increased weight load on the spindle. A bad drivers side bearing will make noise on right turns, and vice versa.

When the grinding is from metal to metal in the front discs, you can generally feel the grinding in the brake pedal.

Good luck,

Tim

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If the car is in alignment yet it still pulls to one side or the other while not braking, it could be the tire on the side of the "pull direction". If the car only pulls during braking, it's usually the opposite side caliper.

Good information, Thanks, Mike

Early on sailors navigated by the stars at night and the North star became the symbol for finding ones way home. Once you know where the Northstar is you can point your ship in the right direction to get home. So the star became a symbol for finding ones way home or more symbolically even finding ones path in life.

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I remember reading in a post somewhere about a sound coming from the hub bearing when turning in one direction or the other

Generally speaking, when a hub bearing begins to go, you will get a grinding or whining noise on braking or turning, due obviously to the increased weight load on the spindle. A bad drivers side bearing will make noise on right turns, and vice versa.

When the grinding is from metal to metal in the front discs, you can generally feel the grinding in the brake pedal.

Good luck,

Tim

Good point Tim

Early on sailors navigated by the stars at night and the North star became the symbol for finding ones way home. Once you know where the Northstar is you can point your ship in the right direction to get home. So the star became a symbol for finding ones way home or more symbolically even finding ones path in life.

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The first time I noticed this was on my way to work driving at about 25 to 30 mph in a ever so slight long sweeping turn to the right. Over the last couple of days after reading the post about the hub bearing when I'm at the same place in my route and I here this sound I'll turn back to the left a little bit and the sound seems to decrease or even stop. The road never straightens before coming to a stop sign, thats when I hear this metal to metal or kinda grinding sound the worse. In having work done recently having the rotors, and other parts removed and put back together maybe something bumped or bent, I don't know.

I think I feel this in the steering wheel and the break pedal too. It's not anywhere near as lound of a sound as when the pads are all the way down though.

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Bronson,

I would also take out the front calipers' mounting bolts/pins to make sure they are not corroded and just in case would put some silicon into the bushings. Pins are usually neglected, particularly if the rotors were changed without taking apart the caliper from the bracket.

The saddest thing in life is wasted talent

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On the pulling to one side or the other, maybe think "tank steering or bulldozer" . It should pivot on the slow side (greater braking effect). In other words, if your right front caliper is doing more braking, the right front wheel will be the slower one, and it should pull to the right. The pulsing could be rotor run-out. If you take the wheel off, and put on the lug nuts, you could check the rotor with a dial indicator. The inboard side of the rotor could be shot and wear out the mating pad (grinding noise), while the outboard side looks good. The pins MUST be smooth (replace if pitted) and lubed with hi-temp brake lube. New seals put into a rusty/crudy bore can make a new and lubed pin hang up. I have seen a bad brake hose cause a caliper to keep on squeezing (won't let the fluid out of the caliper). The hose looked OK on the outside but was collapsed inside. The hub face should be clean and flat .I use a torque wrench on the lugs to make sure they are equal and to keep the rotor flat. If you don't drive it often, the rotors could get rusty (pulsing). I use GM rotors with good results.

rek

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I have the same issue on my 99.. all the pads still look good (i took wheels off to inspect).. It doesn't pull or anything but it does pulse slightly.. it's not annoying at all or anywhere near what you described but it does still pulse (you can feel it in the whole car).. The steering wheel does 'vibrate' sometimes but I think that's due to the magnetic resistance thing (forget what they call it exactly) in the steering.

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Your wheel "moving back and forth" could be a tire problem, been there done that. Did you replace the pads with aftermarket ceramics? Aftermarket ceramic pads can displace material onto the rotors, causing a varying thickness, and creating a pulsing pedal. Been there, done that as well.

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After reading about hub bearings in the archives, discriptions of the types of sounds when the bearing starts to go bad and the change in the "noise" when turning the wheel and braking, I'm convinced it's the hub bearing. I'm not a mechanic though. It does seem to be getting more noticeable.

How difficult is this to truely diagnose? Will the bearing show visable signs of wear at the early stages? or are we looking for just a sound?

How difficult of a procedure is replacing the hub bearing, I use two different shops: one being the dealership, should I go there first? I have a service contract so the money doesn't really matter to me, most important is that I can have it diagnosed and replaced/repaired correctly.

I've replaced and repacked wheel bearings before but that was a long time ago on my 69 Cuda when I was in college. I feel its not quite the same.

The more I read and post, the more I like this web site. You guys are great!

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Since it sounds like you are well along with the bad hub bearing. Jack the tire up off the ground and grab the tire at the 2 and 8 o'clock positions to minimize the potential of the tie rod/steering gear from giving you a false reading. You should have minimal if no movement in the tire/wheel assembly. The hub bearings are very easy to replace. You need to remove the bolts through the hole on the flange. Just pay attention to proper torque when you re-install. A visual inspection of the hub may uncover metal filings also. If I recall, the hub bearing was about $75 to $100. Good Luck, Mike

Early on sailors navigated by the stars at night and the North star became the symbol for finding ones way home. Once you know where the Northstar is you can point your ship in the right direction to get home. So the star became a symbol for finding ones way home or more symbolically even finding ones path in life.

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Here is a photo of the hub assembly, Mike

post-3-1088261917.jpg

Early on sailors navigated by the stars at night and the North star became the symbol for finding ones way home. Once you know where the Northstar is you can point your ship in the right direction to get home. So the star became a symbol for finding ones way home or more symbolically even finding ones path in life.

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How difficult is this to truely diagnose? Will the bearing show visable signs of wear at the early stages? or are we looking for just a sound?

How difficult of a procedure is replacing the hub bearing

I've replaced and repacked wheel bearings before but that was a long time ago on my 69 Cuda when I was in college. I feel its not quite the same.

The best diagnosis I know of is weaving left & right. A bad bearing will start to growl when you load it. It is not a difficult proceedure to replace it. I did one on my last car ('92 Deville) in :45 min. having never done one of this type before.

These are nothing like the bearings we were used to in the 60's. They are sealed and pressed into the hub assembly. The wheel speed sensor is integral.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Well it been some time now and still have not been able to figure out where or what is making this sound. Went to the stealership and drove around with a car full of people listening for this sound and of course we could not hear anything, I felt like a fool. They did address an issue I had with the A/C, ended up replacing the blower motor. One week later noticed fluid driping from under the front of the car, replaced water pump, went to pick up the car and when I started it, noticed code "battery no charge", replaced alternator. I have since replaced the rotors and pads on the front, pulsing is gone and she stops straight and true. This sound I can't figure out though, I do know it sounds as if it's coming from under or around front drivers side, it now sounds like some kind of a rattle from vibration of the movement of the car driving down the road. I'm wondering about the stablizer bar bushings or tie rod ends maybe? It is mostly noticeable when on the brakes, when the weight of the car shifts to the front. I can feel it with my feet on the floor baord or even through the pedals. Tie rod ends, if were the concern would or could be felt through the steering wheel right?

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