there goes Christmas

[vicadams22]

You are getting screwed and you are not even getting kissed.

Emissions Warranties for 1995 and Newer Cars and Trucks

EMISSION CONTROL PARTS

1. Exhaust Gas Conversion Systems: oxygen sensor, thermal reactor, catalytic converter, dual-walled exhaust pipe

2. Exhaust Gas Recirculation System: EGR valve, thermal vacuum switch, EGR solenoid, EGR spacer plate, EGR backpressure transducer, sensor and switches used to control EGR flow

3. Evaporative Emission Control System: purge valve, fuel filler cap, purge solenoid, vapor storage canister, and filter

4. Positive Crankcase Ventilation (PCV) System: PCV valve, PCV solenoid

5. Air Injection System: Air pump diverter, bypass, or gulp valve, reed valve, anti-backfire or deceleration valve

6. Early Fuel Evaporative (EFE) System: EFE valve, thermal vacuum switch, heat riser valve

7. Fuel Metering System: electronic control module (unit) or EFI air flow meter, computer command module or mixture control unit, deceleration controls, electronic choke, fuel injectors, fuel injection units and fuel altitude compensator sensor, bars or rails for EFI or TBI systems, mixture settings on sealed fuel mixture control solenoid, diaphragm or other systems, fuel metering components that achieve closed/other feedback control sensors/loop operation switches and valves

8. Air Induction System: thermostatically controlled air cleaner, air box

9. Ignition Systems: electronic spark advance timing advance/retard systems, high energy electronic ignition

10. Miscellaneous Parts: hoses, gaskets, brackets, clamps, and other accessories used in the above systems

This is all off the EPA'S site. They even tell you how to report and dispute it, but call the GM number I gave you first.

http://www.epa.gov/obd/warranties.htm

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Guys/here' s exactly what I was quoted from my dealer: sorry it's so long -- that's why I didn't post it in the first place. Not at work today so I can't scan and send as attachment. REALLY appreciate your input. Again, they're saying those specific parts are only on the 4/50K plan, not the 7/70K. I'm going to pull my warranty book from my car and see if I can find different info. THANKS AGAIN for trying to help me.

"Attached is the emission control system warranty for your vehicle- 2005 Cadillac SRX. The following is per the US Clean Air Act and California Air resource board. The parts replaced are a 4yr/50k warranty. I put the wording in RED and HIGHLIGHTED the parts list indicators and the parts replaced and unfortunately they do not have the asterisk that indicates they fall under the 7yr/70k warranty.

If you have any questions give me a call or email.

Service Information

2005 Cadillac SRX | Cadillac Warranty and Owner Assistance Information | Warranty and Owner Assistance Information | Warranty and Owner Assistance Information | Introduction | Document ID: 1430538

--------

Emission Control Systems Warranty

The emission warranty on your vehicle is issued in accordance with the U.S. Federal Clean Air Act. Defects in material or workmanship in GM emission parts may also be covered under the New Vehicle Limited Warranty Bumper-to-Bumper coverage. There may be additional coverage on GM diesel engine vehicles. In any case, the warranty with the broadest coverage applies.

What Is Covered

The parts covered under the emission warranty are listed under the "Emission Warranty Parts List" later in this section.

How to Determine the Applicable Emissions Control System Warranty (Light Duty Trucks Only)

State and Federal agencies may require different emission control system warranty for light duty trucks depending on:

•

Whether the truck is certified with a light duty or heavy duty emission control system.

•

Whether the truck is certified for California emissions in addition to Federal emissions.

To determine emissions eligibility: locate the emission control label in the engine compartment on the air cleaner assembly or on the engine. The language on the bottom left side of the label will describe if the vehicle is equipped with a light, medium, or heavy duty emission control system.

All light duty trucks are eligible for Federal Emissions Control System Warranty Coverage. If the emissions control label contains language stating the vehicle is certified to California emissions standards, the vehicle is also eligible for California Emissions Control System Warranty Coverage.

Federal Emission Control System Warranty

Federal Warranty Coverage

• Car and Light Duty Truck equipped with Car and Light Duty Gasoline Engines

- 2 years or 24,000 miles and 8 years or 80,000 miles for the catalytic converter or vehicle, powertrain, control module, whichever comes first.

• Light Duty Truck equipped with Heavy Duty Gasoline Engine

- 5 years or 50,000 miles, whichever comes first.

• Light Duty Truck equipped with Heavy Duty Diesel Engine

- 5 years or 50,000 miles, whichever comes first.

Federal Emission Defect Warranty

GM warrants to the owner the following:

• The vehicle was designed, equipped, and built so as to conform at the time of sale with applicable regulations of the Federal Environmental Protection Agency (EPA).

• The vehicle is free from defects in materials and workmanship which cause the vehicle to fail to conform with those regulations during the emission warranty period.

Emission related defects in the genuine GM parts listed under the Emission Warranty Parts List, including related diagnostic costs, parts, and labor are covered by this warranty.

Federal Emission Performance Warranty

Some states and/or local jurisdictions have established periodic vehicle Inspection and Maintenance (I/M) programs to encourage proper maintenance of your vehicle. If an EPA-approved I/M program is enforced in your area, you may also be eligible for Emission Performance Warranty coverage when all of the following three conditions are met:

• The vehicle has been maintained and operated in accordance with the instructions for proper maintenance and use set forth in the owner manual supplied with your vehicle.

• The vehicle fails an EPA-approved I/M test during the emission warranty period.

• The failure results, or will result, in the owner of the vehicle having to bear a penalty or other sanctions, including the denial of the right to use the vehicle, under local, state, or federal law.

GM warrants that your dealer will replace, repair, or adjust to GM specifications, at no charge to you, any of the parts listed under the "Emission Warranty Parts List" later in this section which may be necessary to conform to the applicable emission standards. Non-GM parts labeled "Certified to EPA Standards" are covered by the Federal Emission Performance Warranty.

California Emission Control System Warranty

This section outlines the emission warranty that GM provides for your vehicle in accordance with the California Air Resources Board. Defects in material or workmanship in GM emission parts may also be covered under the New Vehicle Limited Warranty Bumper-to-Bumper coverage. There may be additional coverage on GM diesel engine vehicles. In any case, the warranty with the broadest coverage applies.

This warranty applies if your vehicle meets both of the following requirements:

• Your vehicle is registered in California or other states adopting California emission and warranty regulations*.

• Your vehicle is certified for sale in California as indicated on the vehicle's emission control information label.

Important: * Massachusetts, Maine, and Vermont have California Emissions Warranty coverage. (New York adopted California emissions standards, but not the California emissions warranty. The Federal Emissions Control Warranty applies to all vehicles in New York.)

Your Rights and Obligations (For Vehicles Subject to California Exhaust Emission Standards)

The Emission Control System Warranty on your vehicle is issued in accordance with the California Air Resources Board and GM. In California, new motor vehicles must be designed, equipped, and built to meet the state's stringent anti-smog standards. GM must warrant your vehicle's emission control system for the periods of time and mileage listed provided there has been no abuse, neglect, or improper maintenance of your vehicle. Your vehicle's emission control system may include parts such as the fuel injection system, ignition system, catalytic converter, and engine computer. Also included are hoses, belts, connectors, and other emission related assemblies.

Where a warrantable condition exists, GM will repair your vehicle at no cost to you including diagnosis, parts, and labor.

California Emission Defect and Emission Performance Warranty Coverage

For cars and trucks with light duty or medium duty emissions:

• For 4 years or 50,000 miles, whichever comes first: -

If your vehicle fails a smog check inspection, GM will make all necessary repairs and adjustments to ensure that your vehicle passes the inspection. This is your Emission Control System Performance Warranty.

-

If any emission related part on your vehicle is defective, GM will repair or replace it. This is your Short-term Emission Defects Warranty.

•

For 7 years or 70,000 miles, whichever comes first:

-

If an emission related part listed in this booklet specially noted with coverage for 7 years or 70,000 miles is defective, GM will repair or replace it. This is your Long-term Emission Control System Defects Warranty

• For 8 years or 80,000 miles, whichever comes first: -

If the catalytic converter or vehicle, powertrain, control module is found to be defective, GM will repair or replace it under the Federal Emission Control System Warranty.

•

For heavy duty gasoline engine vehicles, the emission warranty period is 5 years or 50,000 miles, whichever comes first.

•

For heavy duty diesel engine vehicles, the emission warranty period is 5 years, 100,000 miles, or 3,000 hours of operation, whichever comes first.

Any authorized Cadillac dealer will, as necessary under these warranties, replace, repair, or adjust to GM specifications any genuine GM parts that affect emissions.

The applicable warranty period shall begin on the date the vehicle is delivered to the first retail purchaser or, if the vehicle is first placed in service as a demonstrator or company vehicle prior to sale at retail, on the date the vehicle is placed in such service.

Owner's Warranty Responsibilities

As the vehicle owner, you are responsible for the performance of the scheduled maintenance listed in your owner manual. GM recommends that you retain all maintenance receipts for your vehicle, but GM cannot deny warranty coverage solely for the lack of receipts or for your failure to ensure the performance of all scheduled maintenance.

You are responsible for presenting your vehicle to a GM dealer selling your vehicle line as soon as a problem exists. The warranted repairs should be completed in a reasonable amount of time, not to exceed 30 days.

As the vehicle owner, you should also be aware that GM may deny warranty coverage if your vehicle or a part has failed due to abuse, neglect, improper or insufficient maintenance, or modifications not approved by GM.

If you have any questions regarding your rights and responsibilities under these warranties, you should contact the Customer Assistance Center at 1-800-458-8006, or in California write to:

State of California Air Resources Board

Mobile Source Operations Division

P.O. Box 8001

El Monte, CA 91731-2990

Emission Warranty Parts List

The emission parts listed here are covered under the Emission Control System Warranty. The terms are explained previously in this section under "Federal Emission Control System Warranty" and "California Emission Control System Warranty".

Important: Certain parts may be covered beyond these warranties if shown with asterisk(s) as follows: [/color]

• (*) 7 years/70,000 miles or Super Low Emission Vehicle (SULEV) with emissions RPO code (NU3) 8 years/100,000 miles, whichever comes first, California Emission Control System Warranty coverage.

• (**) 8 years/80,000 miles, whichever comes first, Federal Emission Control System Warranty coverage. Also applies to California certified light duty and medium duty vehicles.

The Emission Control Systems Warranties obligations do not apply to conditions resulting from tampering, abuse, neglect, or improper maintenance; or any other item listed under "What Is Not Covered" under General Motors Corporation New Vehicle Limited Warranty . The "Other Terms" presented under General Motors Corporation New Vehicle Limited Warranty also apply to the emission related warranties.

Powertrain Control System

Barometric Pressure Sensor

Brake Switch

Camshaft Position Actuator Assembly *

Camshaft Position Actuator Valve

Coolant Fan Control Relay

Coolant Level Sensor

Data Link Connector

Electronic Throttle Control (ETC) Motor

Engine Control Module (ECM) **

Engine Coolant Temp. Sensor

Fast Idle Solenoid

Flexible Fuel Sensor *

Intake Air Temperature Sensor

Malfunction Indicator Lamp

Manifold Absolute Pressure Sensor

Oxygen Sensors

Powertrain Control Module (PCM) **

Programmable Read Only Memory (PROM)

Throttle Position Sensor

Throttle Position Switch

Vehicle Control Module (VCM) **

Vehicle Speed Sensor

Transmission Controls and Torque Management

Manual Transmission Clutch Switch

Park/Neutral Switch

Torque Converter Clutch Solenoids

Torque Converter Clutch Switch

Transmission Control Module **

Transmission Fluid Temperature Sensor

Transmission Gear Selection Switch (Diesel)

Transmission Internal Mode Switch

Transmission Pressure Switches

Transmission Shift Solenoids A & B

Transmission Speed Sensors

Fuel Management System

Common Rail Assembly (6.6L DURAMAX® Diesel) *

Diesel Fuel Injection Pump *

Diesel Fuel Injection Pump Timing Adjust

Diesel Fuel Injector Control Module - EDU (6.6L DURAMAX® Diesel) *

Diesel Fuel Temperature Sensor

Direct Fuel Injector Assembly (6.6L DURAMAX® Diesel) *

Function Block (6.6L DURAMAX Diesel)

Fuel Injector

Fuel Pressure Regulator

Fuel Rail Assembly *

Fuel Rail Pressure Sensor (6.6L DURAMAX® Diesel)

Air Management System

Air Cleaner

Air Cleaner Diaphragm Motor

Air Cleaner Resonator

Air Cleaner Temp. Compensator Valve

Air Intake Ducts

Charge Air Control Actuator

Charge Air Control Solenoid Valve

Charge Air Control Valve

Charge Air Cooler (6.6L DURAMAX® Diesel) *

Charge Air Cooler Fan

Idle Air Control Valve

Idle Speed Control Motor

Intake Manifold *

Intake Manifold Tuning Valve

Intake Manifold Tuning Valve Relay

Intake Manifold Gasket 3.4L U-Van, 3.1L LG8, and DURAMAX® Diesel*

Supercharger Assembly *

Throttle Body *

Throttle Body Heater

Throttle Closing Dashpot

Turbocharger Assembly *

Turbocharger Boost Sensor (6.6L DURAMAX® Diesel)

Turbocharger Oil Separator

Turbocharger Thermo Purge Switch

Vacuum Pump (6.6L DURAMAX® Diesel)

Ignition System

Camshaft Position Sensor(s)

Crankshaft Position Sensor(s)

Distributor *

Distributor Cap

Distributor Pick Up Coil

Distributor Rotor

Glow Plug(s) (Diesel)

Glow Plug Controller (Diesel)

Glow Plug Relay (Diesel)

Ignition Coil(s)

Ignition Control Module

Ignition Timing Adjustment

Knock Sensor

Spark Plug Wires

Spark Plugs

Catalytic Converter System

Catalytic Converter(s) and Muffler if attached as assembly **

Exhaust Manifold (7/70 Only Cadillac 4.6L, Grand Prix Right Side 3.8L, U-Van 3.4L, and C/K Truck <14,000 GVWR 8.1L*)

Exhaust Manifold with Catalytic Converter attached as assembly **

Exhaust Manifold Gasket

Exhaust pipes and/or Mufflers (when located between catalytic converters and exhaust manifold)

Positive Crankcase Ventilation System

Oil Filler Cap

PCV Filter

PCV Oil Separator

PCV Valve

Exhaust Gas Recirculation System

EGR Feed and Delivery Pipes or Cast-in Passages

EGR Valve

EGR Valve Cooler (6.6L DURAMAX® Diesel)

EGR Vacuum Pump Assembly (6.6L DURAMAX® Diesel)

Secondary Air Injection System

Air Pump

Check Valves

Evaporative Emission Control System (Gasoline Engines)

Canister

Canister Purge Solenoid Valve NO ASTERIK INDICATES 4YR/50K WARR

Canister Vent Solenoid

Fuel Feed and Return Pipes and Hoses

Fuel Filler Cap

Fuel Level Sensor

Fuel Limiter Vent Valve *

Fuel Tank Filler Pipe (with restrictor)

Fuel Tank(s) *

Fuel Tank Vacuum or Pressure Sensor

Hybrid

ABS Control Module ** (On Hybrid vehicles only)

Auxiliary Transmission Pump, Relay, and Circuit

Battery Pack Current Sensor and Circuit

Battery Pack 12V Modules (3)

Brake Pedal Switch (PCM ZAB Switch)

Energy Storage Control Module **

GMLAN (CAN) Communications Circuit

Hood Ajar Switch and Circuit

Hybrid Control Module **

SGCM Coolant Circuit (fan and fan relay and pump)

Starter Generator Control Module **

Wheel Speed Sensor and Circuits (left and right front)

Miscellaneous Items Used with Above Components are Covered

Belts

Boots

Clamps

Connectors

Ducts

Fittings

Gaskets

Grommets

Hoses

Housings

Mounting Hardware

Pipes

Pulleys

Sealing Devices

Springs

Tubes

Wiring

Parts specified in your maintenance schedule that require scheduled replacement are covered up to their first replacement interval or the applicable emission warranty coverage period, whichever comes first. If failure of one of these parts results in failure of another part, both will be covered under the Emission Control System Warranty.

For detailed information concerning specific parts covered by these emission control system warranties, ask your dealer.

Replacement Parts

The emission control systems of your vehicle were designed, built, and tested using genuine GM parts* and the vehicle is certified as being in conformity with applicable federal and California emission requirements. Accordingly, it is recommended that any replacement parts used for maintenance or for the repair of emission control systems be new, genuine GM parts.

The warranty obligations are not dependent upon the use of any particular brand of replacement parts. The owner may elect to use non-genuine GM parts for replacement purposes. Use of replacement parts which are not of equivalent quality may impair the effectiveness of emission control systems.

If other than new, genuine GM parts are used for maintenance replacements or for the repair of parts affecting emission control, the owner should assure himself/herself that such parts are warranted by their manufacturer to be equivalent to genuine GM parts in performance and durability.

* "Genuine GM parts" when used in connection with GM vehicles means parts manufactured by or for GM, designed for use on GM vehicles, and distributed by any division or subsidiary of GM.

Maintenance and Repairs

Maintenance and repairs can be performed by any qualified service outlet; however, warranty repairs must be performed by an authorized dealer except in an emergency situation when a warranted part or a warranty station is not reasonably available to the vehicle owner.

In an emergency, where an authorized dealer is not reasonably available, repairs may be performed at any available service establishment or by the owner, using any replacement part. Cadillac will consider reimbursement for the expense incurred, including diagnosis, not to exceed the manufacturer's suggested retail price for all warranted parts replaced and labor charges based on Cadillac's recommended time allowance for the warranty repair and the geographically appropriate labor rate. A part not being available within 10 days or a repair not being completed within 30 days constitutes an emergency. Retain receipts and failed parts in order to receive compensation for warranty repairs reimbursable due to an emergency.

If, in an emergency situation, it is necessary to have repairs performed by other than a Cadillac dealer and you believe the repairs are covered by emission warranties, take the replaced parts and your receipt to a Cadillac dealer for reimbursement consideration. This applies to both the Federal Emission Defect Warranty and Federal Emission Performance Warranty.

Receipts and records covering the performance of regular maintenance or emergency repairs should be retained in the event questions arise concerning maintenance. These receipts and records should be transferred to each subsequent owner. GM will not deny warranty coverage solely on the absence of maintenance records. However, GM may deny a warranty claim if a failure to perform scheduled maintenance resulted in the failure of a warranty part.

Claims Procedure

As with the other warranties covered in this booklet, take your vehicle to any authorized Cadillac dealer facility to obtain service under the emission warranty. This should be done as soon as possible after failing an EPA-approved I/M test or a California smog check test, or at any time you suspect a defect in a part.

Those repairs qualifying under the warranty will be performed by any Cadillac dealer at no charge. Repairs which do not qualify will be charged to you. You will be notified as to whether or not the repair qualifies under the warranty within a reasonable time, not to exceed 30 days after receipt of the vehicle by the dealer, or within the time period required by local or state law.

The only exceptions would be if you request or agree to an extension, or if a delay results from events beyond the control of your dealer or GM. If you are not so notified, GM will provide any required repairs at no charge.

In the event a warranty matter is not handled to your satisfaction, refer to the "Customer Satisfaction Procedure" under Owner Assistance .

For further information or to report violations of the Emission Control System Warranty, you may contact the EPA at:

Manager, Certification and Compliance

Division (6405J)

Warranty Claims

Environmental Protection Agency

Ariel Rios Building

1200 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W.

Washington, DC 20460

For a vehicle subject to the California Exhaust Emission Standards, you may contact the:

State of California Air Resources Board

Mobile Source Operations Division

P.O. Box 8001

El Monte, CA 91731-2990

© 2009 General Motors. All rights reserved.

[Bruce Nunnally]

Three things come to mind:

a) first, thank you for typing all that in! You must be a scratch typist.

the warranty quoted doesn't appear to match the requirements. Is the document you are typing in a GM/Cadillac document or a dealership generated document?

c) The dealer is still offering you a $950 repair for a $100 labor + $100 parts problem (or less), unless I am missing some detail on how hard the vent cannister solenoid is to replace.

d) we still don't know what caused the repeated catalytic converter problems.

Is there another Cadillac Dealer near you that could be consulted?

Should you ask at this point for the dealer to refer this to the Cadillac regional rep? Then walk them through (calmly) the cat failed, was replaced, then failed again, was replaced, then the evap solenoid has failed. Might be a waste of time because they generally want you to work it out with the dealer instead, but this seems an odd sequence of failures for a fairly new vehicle.

[vicadams22]

Three things come to mind:

a) first, thank you for typing all that in! You must be a scratch typist.

the warranty quoted doesn't appear to match the requirements. Is the document you are typing in a GM/Cadillac document or a dealership generated document?

c) The dealer is still offering you a $950 repair for a $100 labor + $100 parts problem (or less), unless I am missing some detail on how hard the vent cannister solenoid is to replace.

d) we still don't know what caused the repeated catalytic converter problems.

Is there another Cadillac Dealer near you that could be consulted?

Should you ask at this point for the dealer to refer this to the Cadillac regional rep? Then walk them through (calmly) the cat failed, was replaced, then failed again, was replaced, then the evap solenoid has failed. Might be a waste of time because they generally want you to work it out with the dealer instead, but this seems an odd sequence of failures for a fairly new vehicle.

Thanks, Bruce for all your valuable advice.

a) It was just a copy/paste job from the email sent to me by my service rep. If I'd have typed that in, I would certainly be nuts. I do type pretty fast, though

My warranty manual was in my car for the past couple of days (while it was at the shop) -- then my husband's car broke down and he's been driving mine. SO -- I found the warranty manual and it matches pretty much word-for-word what my rep emailed me

c) I know. It was $800 labor for that. I have no idea how hard it is to replace either -- but from googling the problem, seems like it's not a easy/quick fix.

There is another Cadillac dealer near me - maybe I should go talk to them? I'm a l'ittle torn - don't want to throw my current dealership (GM by the way -- not specifically Cadillac) under the bus. They've done all the work (except this one) under warranty w/no problems. Although, they haven't been able to figure out the "cause" of the bad cc's, they were very up front w/me about the oil issue (see previous attachment). I KNOW that I'm going to have more problems (if you judge the last hear of history) and I want them to work w/me.

[Ranger]

Based on the EPA's own web page it sounds to me like they are not in compliance. I'd talk to the customer service no. I gave you and see what they have to say. You don't have to give them the dealership name. Just ask why the difference between what they say and what the EPA says.

[steve6]

There is another Cadillac dealer near me - maybe I should go talk to them? I'm a l'ittle torn - don't want to throw my current dealership (GM by the way -- not specifically Cadillac) under the bus. They've done all the work (except this one) under warranty w/no problems. Although, they haven't been able to figure out the "cause" of the bad cc's, they were very up front w/me about the oil issue (see previous attachment). I KNOW that I'm going to have more problems (if you judge the last hear of history) and I want them to work w/me.

The evap issue could have been the fault all along for the bad converters, burning excess gas reaks havik on the emission system. It may have jsut been slowely geting worse and worse, before being diagnossed properly. You mentioning that you had to hold the pedal to the floor after filling it means it may have been running excessivly rich..

[Cadillac Jim]

I have never seen a clearer case for a bad dealer service department than this thread. If there is room for yet another indignant voice, please read the rest of this post.

I recommend that vicinsd get all of his paperwork in front of him and call GM Customer Relations. The phone number is in the owner's manual, or you can call the 800 number on the keychain tag for 24/7 road service and ask them to transfer the call, or you can call OnStar and ask them to transfer the call. Be prepared to FAX the material if they ask you to, or to Xerox it and send them a copy; that probably won't be necessary because they can pull up your service history from your vehicle's VIN right there on the phone and these people deal with the real world out there every day all day -- they are smart and hard to fool. These people are on your side; ask them what to do. In particular, ask them what dealer to go to for service in the future.

I grew up in the car business and I understand that a dealer gets a bad tech or dense service manager every once in awhile. A good dealer will solve these problems as they occur. Thus the dealer may be worth trying again, if the alternative is a bit of a drive, after a suitable interval, say three months. Look for onlne ratings of dealers for service and, if you can find a web site that you trust, watch for complaints to stop.

[vicadams22]

I have never seen a clearer case for a bad dealer service department than this thread. If there is room for yet another indignant voice, please read the rest of this post.

I recommend that vicinsd get all of his paperwork in front of him and call GM Customer Relations. The phone number is in the owner's manual, or you can call the 800 number on the keychain tag for 24/7 road service and ask them to transfer the call, or you can call OnStar and ask them to transfer the call. Be prepared to FAX the material if they ask you to, or to Xerox it and send them a copy; that probably won't be necessary because they can pull up your service history from your vehicle's VIN right there on the phone and these people deal with the real world out there every day all day -- they are smart and hard to fool. These people are on your side; ask them what to do. In particular, ask them what dealer to go to for service in the future.

I grew up in the car business and I understand that a dealer gets a bad tech or dense service manager every once in awhile. A good dealer will solve these problems as they occur. Thus the dealer may be worth trying again, if the alternative is a bit of a drive, after a suitable interval, say three months. Look for onlne ratings of dealers for service and, if you can find a web site that you trust, watch for complaints to stop.

Hi Jim,

Took your advice (and that of others) and called GM Customer Relations last week. During the week, my call went from that one person up the ladder to a GM manager on the east coast. Per my conversation w/her on Thursday, she was going to discuss w/manager at Dealer and get back with me today. She just called to tell me that "unfortunately, due to the fact that I purchased the car 'used' and not under warranty, there is NOTHING they can do." I of course politely reminded her that the car WAS in fact under the basic factory warranty when I purchased it (@44,254 miles) and the last 2 times the cc's were replaced they were covered under the extended emissions warranty (and of course this is now an emissions-related issue)... She hesitate,d typed a little on her computer and read (as if from a prompter") -- because I purchased the car used, there is nothing they can do for me. I then asked where I go from here if I'm unhappy with that response. She said if I wanted to hire my own attorney and pursue it legally, it's my choice.

So much for GM Customer Service. The dealer is Jimmie Johnson Chevrolet in San Diego.

[Cadillac Jim]

California has excellent consumer protection laws, a good lemon law, and a good small claims court. Call the small claims court in your phone book blue pages (Government listings). You may not even need a lawyer.

[PAUL T]

California has excellent consumer protection laws, a good lemon law, and a good small claims court. Call the small claims court in your phone book blue pages (Government listings). You may not even need a lawyer.

From what I have read small claims court is the way to go. Fill out a complaint form, pay the filing fee and GM will have to repond. In most cases it is not worth their time so they offer a settlement that most of the time will include your filing fees. GM or the dealer may find a fund that will cover a car just out of warranty. Be persistant and polite. If you can prove that the evap problem caused the Catcons to be replaced then it should be covered since it was a problem that occured while under warranty.

[vicadams22]

California has excellent consumer protection laws, a good lemon law, and a good small claims court. Call the small claims court in your phone book blue pages (Government listings). You may not even need a lawyer.

From what I have read small claims court is the way to go. Fill out a complaint form, pay the filing fee and GM will have to repond. In most cases it is not worth their time so they offer a settlement that most of the time will include your filing fees. GM or the dealer may find a fund that will cover a car just out of warranty. Be persistant and polite. If you can prove that the evap problem caused the Catcons to be replaced then it should be covered since it was a problem that occured while under warranty.

I understand that their may be another member on the board going through this same problem. Perhaps someone can direct me to that thread? Thanks!

[Bruce Nunnally]

Try this one: http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=25367

[vicadams22]

California has excellent consumer protection laws, a good lemon law, and a good small claims court. Call the small claims court in your phone book blue pages (Government listings). You may not even need a lawyer.

From what I have read small claims court is the way to go. Fill out a complaint form, pay the filing fee and GM will have to repond. In most cases it is not worth their time so they offer a settlement that most of the time will include your filing fees. GM or the dealer may find a fund that will cover a car just out of warranty. Be persistant and polite. If you can prove that the evap problem caused the Catcons to be replaced then it should be covered since it was a problem that occured while under warranty.

Anyone know of a way that I can prove that the evap problem caused the catcons to be replaced, so it should be covered since it was a problem that occurred while under warranty? I'm getting close to hiring a lemon law attorney http://www.california-lemonlawyer.com/Do-I-Have-A-Case.asp (these guys look interesting). Car is running great now --- but I feel like I'm just waiting for the next major problem to hit (& can't afford an extended warranty). Thanks.

[Cadillac Jim]

The lemon law lawyer should have the automotive resources to link the EVAP system to the CAT failure.

[BodybyFisher]

I just did some research and these items are included in the emissions warranty, it should be part of your warranty booklet that is included with the owners manual

Evaporative Emission Control System (Gasoline Engines)

Canister Vent Solenoid Canister Purge Solenoid Valves

Fuel Feed/Return Pipes and Hoses

Fuel Filler Cap

Fuel Tank Filler Pipe (with Restrictor)

Fuel Tank Vacuum Sensor

Its a shame as you said that its only warranteed till 50K miles, I just find this incredible that it cost so much to replace.

Is this car still using oil?, have you determined if its leaking it?

[BodybyFisher]

The EVAP system has nothing to do with the CATs going bad, its not related.

You have two cats on that car, they have been known to go bad, in and around 2002 they were having a problem with them.

[Ranger]

I think lemon laws only apply to a new car.

[vicadams22]

I think lemon laws only apply to a new car.

EXCERPT FROM http://www.california-lemonlawyer.com/Lemon-Law-FAQ.asp

Does the Lemon Law apply to used vehicles?

Yes. The lemon law applies to any consumer product, new or used, sold with a warranty.

How long does the lemon law apply?

The Lemon law covers repairs that are done under warranty. This is generally during the warranty period. Warranties may be extended under several circumstances, however, including by the manufacturer or seller themselves and the number of days a vehicle has been out of service by reason of repair. Many cases involve warranties that have expired.

How long do I have to bring my case?

You may bring a case within four years of the date you knew or should have known the product was a lemon.

How do I know if my vehicle a "lemon?"

As a general rule, a vehicle that suffers from a material defect or defects is a lemon if it remains unrepaired after a "reasonable" number of repair attempts. A material defect or "nonconformity" to the warranty is defined as a defect that "substantially impairs the use, value or safety" of the vehicle.

What constitutes a "reasonable" number of repairs?

This is question of fact that can best be answered on a case-by-case basis. The lemon law contains several guidelines, however, to aid consumers, manufacturers, retail sellers, judges and juries in answering this question.

[Cadillac Jim]

I've heard, and it seems reasonable, that three tries by the dealer to fix a problem constitute "a reasonable number" of attempts to fix a problem.

[Ranger]

Next question would be is that a "California" law?

[Cadillac Jim]

I was living in California when I heard that the lemon law applied to vehicles that could not be fixed by the dealer in three tries, yes. But, that was over 10 years ago, and the rest of the country is about six years behind California, so I think that it probably applies in most States.

I've also heard about some dealers, GM and Ford, who, when presented with a new or nearly new car with a deep congenital defect, exchanged it for a new one and sent the funny car back to the manufacturer as an analysis car. Examples:

• In the early 1960's, a Buick that had been built right after a strike was found to have some internal body braces missing in the roof structure. Examined by field X-ray and exchanged for a new car. All on the initiative of Buick and the dealer.
• In the 1950's, a low-mileage year-old Mercury was dropped off the rack during service. The dealership owner came out with his hat in his hand to talk to the owner and gave her a new car in exchange. The dealership ate her car.

I have heard other stories but these I give here are not just rumors, I have good reason to believe that they are true. I suspect that it happens with Chrysler dealers also, but I have my doubts about foreign and imported cars except for exotics and high-end luxury makes like Rolls-Royce, about which I have a shaggy-dog tale too long for this post.

Of course, I have heard of some pranks, too:

• A carbon of the window sticker, apparently used as part of a checklist process during production, was found inside the left front spring of all new Sting Rays produced in the 1960's. Most of them had short notes making fun of the choice of options. Mine had the 36.5 gallon gas tank and A/C both circled with a line between them and a big question mark.
• My new 1973 Caprice Estate came with a large selection of bolts of various sizes and strengths, from no-mark stovebolts to five-mark suspension bolts. I found them under the driver's seat. I never said anything because, well, there's nothing wrong with having a good time. Now that I'm more... mature, if this happened today I would box up the bolts and ship them back to the plant with a letter suggesting that these parts might find a better use than laying under my front seat, but if they disagreed, please return them so that I could sell them on e-Bay. And, don't leave any out because I counted them, and include a list. With close-up photos.