Jeff Posted June 19, 2004 Report Share Posted June 19, 2004 OK- I found the FPR vac line, BUT I still have a whistling sound back near the firewall over by the coils. This all started when I was checking my plug wires to see which was causing a missfire. All the wires were in a "bird nest" between the engine and firewall, so I pulled them all out and tried to route them better. (Ended up replacing wires) During all that I seemed to have pulled a vacuum line off. Ever since I replaced the wires, I have this problem- In the morning, when the car has been sitting all night, it cranks like a brand new one. I drive it to work, it sits for about 4 hours, it's hard to start. It just spins like it's not getting any fuel. I tried to see how long it takes and the best I can do is- it will start when the power antenna gets all the way up. Then I drive it to lunch, it sits for about an hour, still hard to start. However, if I happen to stop for gas or something where I'm back in it in a couple of minutes, it cranks like a brand new one! Then it sits at work for another 3 or 4 hours and hard to start. The reason I keep mentioning the vacuum line is the stupid whistling noise- Is there a vacuum line somewhere back there near the coil? Another reason I think vacuum, is I remember when I first bought the car- I heard the same noise, and the guy I bought her from had his mechanic go over it and he said he found a vacuum line pulled off. He didn't say where, though. How did he find it so fast? Could it be that he does that for a living? Again I'm at your mercy- Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Posted June 20, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2004 Any takers... ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFBonnett Posted June 20, 2004 Report Share Posted June 20, 2004 I'd take a length of vac hose and use it as a stethoscope to try to pinpoint the exact location of the noise then really feel around for a loose hose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted June 20, 2004 Report Share Posted June 20, 2004 Jeff, I'll check mine out after church today. The batteries on the camera are all charged, so I'll snap some pics. Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
growe3 Posted June 20, 2004 Report Share Posted June 20, 2004 In that area there are two sources that I can think of that may be vacuum leaks. 1. The vacuum to the heater/AC unit used to open and adjust the mixing doors. 2. The PCV valve vacuum line (about a 3/8" line). Of those two sources I don't think the heater/AC vacuum is strong enough to create a whistling sound, the PCV line certainly is. I would look for the PCV line and see if it is pulled loose or the hose is cracked. If you are having any kind of rough idle the PCV can easily leak enough to cause it. As DFBonnett said, with the engine running, get a piece of hose and put it to your ear and probe around for the leak. You should be able to find it easily. -George Drive'em like you own 'em. - ....................04 DTS............................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted June 20, 2004 Report Share Posted June 20, 2004 Just had a look at mine. As growe3 said there are 2 vacuum sorces there. Both are on the outboard side of the coil pack. The PCV valve is right next to the coil pack. The other as mentioned is the vacuum sorce for the heater controls. It is just outboard of the PCV and "T"s at the firewall where one side goes through the firewall and the other goes down along the inside fender well and disappears into the wheel well beneath the surge tank. Both sorces are under the beauty cover and I did not remove it for a more exact location but should be readily visible. I could see no other vacuum lines in that area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaddyShack24 Posted June 20, 2004 Report Share Posted June 20, 2004 i know the peice growe helped me with, the vaccum manifold.. plugs into the top of the throttle body, one runs to some little solenoid behind the engine, that runs to the far left side of the engine compartment..the other half runs over to the Cruise control servo. The other two plug into some vacuum lines, behind the C/C Servo. The are a little down there but reachable Not sure what you drive, im referring to a '93 STS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Posted June 21, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2004 Thanks guys- Do you think any of that could have something to do with the hard starting problem? I'll check the lines out tomorrow, and see if anything changes. Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveJ Posted June 21, 2004 Report Share Posted June 21, 2004 Just reading the description of your problem reminds me of Bbobs description of a flooded engine. Car sits for a short time and a leaking FPR or leaking injector allows too much gas to enter the engine as it sits, however if it sits a long time said gas drains down and away giving you a clean start in the morning. Next time you do a hot start that usually results in a long crank try putting the accelerator all the way to the floor which tells the computer to shut off fuel delivery to a flooded engine. If this works then change the direction of your troubleshooting to find the cause of the flooding. I'd start with that FPR if you say it whistles. If you have black smoke following a lng crank and hard start it is another indication of flooding. Sorry to change the direction of your thread but it's just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Posted June 22, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2004 No apologies- That's what I've been looking for. In fact, I have "floored it" when cranking it, and nothing changes... I have notices that when I kill the car, I can try to let the pressure off of the fuel rail and there's nothing there! SO the leak idea sounds correct. I can't tell exactly where the whistling is coming from, but I have narrowed it down to somewhere around the coils. I've looked at and moved everything I can put my hand on, and again NOTHING! On the other hand, the car does smoke like you described when it does finally crank, so wassup with it not starting when I floor it? Other than that- I'm JUST GLAD TO BE HERE!! Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted June 22, 2004 Report Share Posted June 22, 2004 Jeff, remove the clip from the FPR and take the small FPR "mushroom" out of its little seat. There will be a nipple that points straight down, and this is sealed with an o-ring. This o-ring might be compromised, allowing fuel to leak into the manifold. This is what happened to mine, and you can purchase a seal kit from GM that includes many small parts to basically "rebuild" your FPR -- but the small o-ring was all I needed. I was advised by members here to just buy the seal kit (instead of getting a generic o-ring) because the o-ring is of a special material that is resistant to gasoline. Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveJ Posted June 22, 2004 Report Share Posted June 22, 2004 I bought one of those mechanic stethoscopes and found I could hear every mechanical sound in the engine at once which was not useful. Guru recommended a length of rubber hose and sure enough it works to pick up just the one area it is pointed at. So I guess I would point you toward a length of heater hose or garden hose to find that whistle sound. Does the FPR get vacuum when the engine is running? I beleive the FPR goes to full pressure without vacuum. How closely have you inspected the vacuum line to the FPR? Cracked at the attchment end? Is it the whistle? In your original post you mention searching for a spark problem that caused a miss. Could it be that the miss was not a spark problem but an injector problem? Codes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted June 22, 2004 Report Share Posted June 22, 2004 A piece of heater hose in your ear will act like a gieger counter. The closer you get, the louder it will get. When you find it, it will sound like a hurricane. I use an old set of airline headsets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Posted June 23, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 Thanks Jadcock- I didn't know they offered that kit- SteveJ- Yes it was the coil- I had one that was cracked! I replaced and it stopped missing. I did have a code during that, but it was just a misfire code (P 0300, I think it was) I have not had any codes since then. I don't think that it is the FPR making the noise- but I'll make sure- didn't think about the vaccum line being cracked- does it pull enough to whistle that loud? Does it pull a constant vaccum whle the engine is running so that you can pull the line off and feel it with your finger? Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 Don't know how much vacuum it pulls or if it would wistle but you should be able to feel it with your finger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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