Cademan310 Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 Hope someone can help me here I am lost. Have a 2001 Deville and it will not crank. It was running fine and then it just wouldn't crank. Replaced the starter as it was pulling the batt down, still will not start. Thought maybe the Passkey was the problem as it seems everything was shutting down after you try to crank it by passed the pass key still will not start. There are no codes in the ECM!!!!tried to crank it directly from the starter, still will not turn over. I am starting to suspect the ECM but not sure.WHEN you turn the key to crank the injectors work and then it stops and the THEFT Deterent light comes on. I am lost CAN SOMEONE HELP PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 Ever since OBDII ('96) it is called the PCM. If you have a theft light on, there should be a DTC stored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimD Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 You are shooting from the hip in the dark of night without Diagnostic Trouble Codes. Here is how to display them: http://www.caddyinfo.com/readingcodes.html Jim Drive your car. Use your cell phone. CHOOSE ONE ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cademan310 Posted September 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 Thanks for your replies, but I do have an OBDII. We plugged it in but no codes are displaying. The theft detterent light does not stay in. It only comes on if I try to crank it several times. Now when I try to crank it the Service Engine light does not flash or light up now and it always did before and then go out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimD Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 Do you another key?? Jim Drive your car. Use your cell phone. CHOOSE ONE ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cademan310 Posted September 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 Yes, 3 of them and we have tried them all. None work, same issue. We removed the switch and tried to bypass the passkey and still no crank. Not sure what to do next Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 Thanks for your replies, but I do have an OBDII. We plugged it in but no codes are displaying. The theft detterent light does not stay in. It only comes on if I try to crank it several times. Now when I try to crank it the Service Engine light does not flash or light up now and it always did before and then go out I am not sure what you mean by "but I do have an OBDII" OBDII is a protocol, that the PCM utilized since 1996, before that it was OBDI. Are you trying to say that you have an OBDII READER? Your Cadillac has an ON BOARD diagnostic system, you do not need a reader. Go to the top of this page, click HOW TO, then DTC CODES and read the section on your year (1996) that details how to retrieve your DTC codes. Most readers ONLY read "P" or powertrain codes, your ON BOARD diagnostic system will give you codes for EVERY system, you probably have codes set and do not know it Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cademan310 Posted September 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 Yes that is what i meant, I have a reader. I will use the onboard reader and see what codes show up...Thanks. will let you know the results Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cademan310 Posted September 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 Okay these are the codes I found...Althought there were some historical codes I took the ones that were current u1000 u1016 B1390 B1009 B3055 P010 P0615 P1634 I am sure that one of theses or more may be triggeing the others, just not sure where to start. Also I may need to put everything back together and see what codes I have then. Any ideas, I sure appreciate the help. I love my car but I am about to put a match to it...lol...just kidding. I had a 97 that was fantastic, maybe i shouldn't have upgraded...lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cademan310 Posted September 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 Also , what is the ID function on on board reader? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 Decipher your codes here. http://myweb.accessus.net/~090/dtcobd2.html ID function??????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimD Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 .... Also I may need to put everything back together and see what codes I have then. Any ideas, I sure appreciate the help. That would be my recommendation. And we have no idea exactly what is not "back together". Then I would clear all your codes and begin a diagnosis with a clean sheet of paper. Jim Drive your car. Use your cell phone. CHOOSE ONE ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Jim Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 The complete does are of the form MMM Lnnnn {HISTORY or CURRENT} where MMM is a three-letter acronym that identifies the module that made the test, L is one of P, B, C or U, nnnn is the four-digit code number, and CURRENT or HISTORY tells whether the problem was seen since the key was last turned on. U1000 Class 2 Communication Malfunction U1016 Loss of Class 2 Communication with PCM B1390 Device Voltage Reference Input Circuit Malfunction B1009 EEPROM Checksum Error B3055 Key Not Present P0615 Starter Relay Control Circuit P1634 Ignition 1 Switch Circuit The code P010 is incomplete. The list of all possibilities that I have in my list is P0100 MAF Sensor Circuit Insufficient Activity P0101 Mass Air Flow (MAF) Sensor Performance P0102 Mass Air Flow (MAF) Sensor Circuit Low Frequency P0103 Mass Air Flow (MAF) Sensor Circuit High Frequency P0104 Mass Air Flow Circuit Intermittent P0105 MAP Sensor Circuit Insufficient Activity P0106 Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) System Performance P0107 Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) Sensor Circuit Low Voltage P0108 Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) Sensor Circuit High Voltage P0109 Manifold Absolute Pressure Circuit Intermittent This shows multiple problems, some of which are apparently low battery voltage. I would get a good battery, charged, in-place, clear the codes, try to start it, and then read the codea again before turning the key off. Watch for the module name. -- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data -- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cademan310 Posted September 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 Back Together....... Means the car has been taken apart trying to find the problem, from the Plenum being removed to access the starter to ignition being removed to rule out a switch problem. So what I am saying is that I am going to NORMALIZE the car and then follow your recomendation.....Clear all codes and then turn the key....will let you know the results THANKS ALL!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 Has the battery been load tested? And have the battery cable connections been cleaned?, especially the positive cable This code needs to be figured out B3055 Key Not Present Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 Back Together....... Means the car has been taken apart trying to find the problem, from the Plenum being removed to access the starter to ignition being removed to rule out a switch problem. So what I am saying is that I am going to NORMALIZE the car and then follow your recomendation.....Clear all codes and then turn the key....will let you know the results THANKS ALL!!!! Did you by chance forget to plug in the two pin connector for the starter solenoid that is near the cam cover where the positive cable exits the valley under the intake? Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cademan310 Posted September 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 Progress so far.... Car is almost completely back together...Just need to put switch and Passkey III system back in place...My current codes is are: B3055...which is the no key code However the car will still not crank and the Theft Deterent Sys light keeps coming on....Not sure if it is because the key is not being used or can the Passkey be bypassed? Still I did have the same condition with the key Will have all components back by tomorrow...I will follow up with results Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cademan310 Posted September 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 Back Together....... Means the car has been taken apart trying to find the problem, from the Plenum being removed to access the starter to ignition being removed to rule out a switch problem. So what I am saying is that I am going to NORMALIZE the car and then follow your recomendation.....Clear all codes and then turn the key....will let you know the results THANKS ALL!!!! Did you by chance forget to plug in the two pin connector for the starter solenoid that is near the cam cover where the positive cable exits the valley under the intake? All connectors are connected...If you are talking about the connector close to the front(passenger side) of the engine were the sepentine belt is, it is a 3 pin connector where it comes out of the well and yes. But theses symptoms were there before I changed the starter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Jim Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 The "No Key" code is what you get when the resistor pellet in the key doesn't connect or a key is made without a resistor pellet. You can also get that code when you jumper the ignition and use a starter switch with a pushbutton and alligator clips on the solenoid to crank the engine, something that was once common when working on engines in the car. It's an indication that the passkey electronics in the steering column aren't making contact with the resistor pellet in the key, or that the passkey electronics in the steering column have another problem. The resistor pellet in the key itself is simple enough to check with an ohmmeter, so I would do that first. If it's an open circuit, take the key and the VIN number (the car's registration card) to a dealer and get another key made. If the resistor pellet in the key is OK, then you have isolated the problem to the passkey contacts to the key and the passkey electronics. If the resistor pellet in the key is OK, that's where I would focus now. -- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data -- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 Try spraying the key with WD40 and running it in and out of the lock to clean the contacts. I am surprised that you were unable to jump the key circuit with a resistor, can you explain how you did that? Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimD Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 This applies to 2000 - 2005 Deville models. The starter solenoid circuit includes some items in the underhood fuse box. There is a 30 amp START circuit breaker, a relay identified as START 1, and a 10 amp PCM IGN fuse. The relay contacts connect 12 volts to the starter solenoid from the 30 amp circuit breaker. The relay coil is powered fron the PCM IGN fuse and the coil ground is supplied by logic in the PCM. The starter motor gets battery voltage from the large connection on the rear face of the underhood fuse block. It is highly unlikely that all 3 of your keys are faulty which leaves the theft deterrent control module. And that module signals the PCM when the correct (or learned) key is in the switch. It might be possible to simulate the correct key, or otherwise simulate the signal to the PCM, but it could take me a of couple days to come up with a simple method. Just for the record, PK III does not use a resistance value to identify the key. Jim Drive your car. Use your cell phone. CHOOSE ONE ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cademan310 Posted September 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 Ok gents here is where I am at now...Put everything back together and it cleared all the codes still will not start with the key but the Theft Deterent light did not come on. It is obvious to me now that I am unable to bypass the PK3. Anyway she will not start with the key, but if I remove the starter relay, turn the key to the on position and put a wire across the relay sockets she will crank. Already did and interchange with the other matching relays so I dont think thats it. Any ides gents? I'm close oh so close but still far away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cademan310 Posted September 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 I believe i did see that relay under the seat in that fuse box along with the fuse and crkt breaker...The relay i am able to jump it from is under the hood. I did do a carousel with the other matching relays to rule the relay out This applies to 2000 - 2005 Deville models. The starter solenoid circuit includes some items in the underhood fuse box. There is a 30 amp START circuit breaker, a relay identified as START 1, and a 10 amp PCM IGN fuse. The relay contacts connect 12 volts to the starter solenoid from the 30 amp circuit breaker. The relay coil is powered fron the PCM IGN fuse and the coil ground is supplied by logic in the PCM. The starter motor gets battery voltage from the large connection on the rear face of the underhood fuse block. It is highly unlikely that all 3 of your keys are faulty which leaves the theft deterrent control module. And that module signals the PCM when the correct (or learned) key is in the switch. It might be possible to simulate the correct key, or otherwise simulate the signal to the PCM, but it could take me a of couple days to come up with a simple method. Just for the record, PK III does not use a resistance value to identify the key. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Jim Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 What's the wire that actuates the starter solenoid relay? Anyone with an 2001 FSM can trace this back from there. -- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data -- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimD Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 Sounds to me like you have a failed theft deterrent module (located inside the steering column). It might be faster and easier and cheaper to pay a GM service department to do the diagnosis with their high-dollar test equipment. Probably not what you want to hear, but you have bought and installed some high-dollar parts that did not resolve the problem! Your car, your money, your choice. Jim Drive your car. Use your cell phone. CHOOSE ONE ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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