83 coupe 4100 Sudden White coolant smoke

[KHE]

yea ive timed a 350 before, i thought this would be different. And i thought i read somewhere you cant do the vacuum advance because these distributors dont have vacuum going to them, which it doesnt.

It has been a long time.... but there is either a single wire near the distributor that must be grounded in order to put the ECM in "Set Timing" mode OR you jumper pins A and B of the diagnostic connector under the dash to put the ECM in set timing mode. Then using an inductive timing light, set the timing to the factory spec. If you do not have a factory shop manual for your car, they are often available on ebay for a very reasonable price.

i got a chiltons, its pretty helpful

Chiltons is better than nothing but just barely... there is no substitute for the factory service manual. Look at one and you will see what I mean.

[CoupeDTS]

So heres an update...

I got the distributor off with my $10 right angle wrench. I got the intake off and the gasket looked good. There was coolant all over the valley. So it mustve been the head gasket.

So i worked on taking the drivers side head off. The power steering pump was a huge hassle. The bolts to take it off are behind the pulley and the guide says just take them off through the pulley holes but mine had no holes. So i rented the tool to pull the pulley but it just broke the end off. So I decided to destroy it and use a 3 jaw puller and pull till it bended the pulley far enough forward to get the bolts out of the head. I got the head off and that gasket looked good too... But.. The back cylinder cylinder wall had a full crack in it and there was 2 little chunks of piston missing. So theres the problem. Cracked cylinder wall after only 93k miles... Good news is I dont have to put this engine back together!!!!!

So I pulled the engine yesterday and found a 355 online. Its a little drive but Im going to get it this weekend. Its a fresh rebuild with 2000 miles on it and its actually in a 82 deville right now Hes a caddy guy too.

I know it will bolt up to my tranny. I just need an intake, a few front accessories and headers. Im gonna try the original throttle body on it. This guy has the adapter to make it fit, he said they used them on trucks in the later 80s early 90s. If it dont work ill just do a carb.

So i gotta clean up the engine bay and paint stuff. Probably cut a bunch of sensor wires. Anyway thats where im at now.

[Cadillac Jim]

It sounds like too much surplus oil got sucked into the back cylinder and hydrolocked while the engine was running.

[CoupeDTS]

the area around the cylinder sleeves is usually full of coolant right? How could oil have anything to do with that?

[Cadillac Jim]

You know, that's a point. Unless you drain the system before you pull the intake manifold and heads, there will be coolant all over everything. Even if you do drain the radiator, there will be some coolant spread around as you pull off the intake manifold and each head. Do you see any metal damage, like a cracked piston crown? Maybe all you need to do is complete your valve job or whatever you decide to do while it's apart and new top end gaskets.

[CoupeDTS]

yea the sleeve was cracked and the piston was chipped up. Them sleeves come out fairly easy but still not worth it to me to fix. I already went and bought a 355 and am ready to put it in so out with the old in with the new.

[joeb]

your swapping out a 4100 and going to a 355? hows that work for computer and sensor hookups? does a 83 even have an sensors?

[Cadillac Jim]

The 1983 Cadillac has OBD I and DFI. I have absolutely no idea what module issues might be incurred with the swap.

The best results will likely be obtained by divorcing the engine and PCM from the rest of the car, except for the oil warning light and the temperature gauge. Saying it's a 355 means that this is likely an aftermarket rebuild bow-tie 350 bored .030 over, almost certainly carburetor, and delivered as a drop-in ready-to-run crate engine.

Unless previous research about local emissions laws shows that this combination is allowed, I would use a compatible exhaust system with cat(s) so that it will pass a tailpipe sniffer test and plead for mercy or apply for an exception to get emissions inspection. I wouldn't know what to do about the MIL light.

juicedlumina may or may not choose to remark publicly here, but I would be very interested in how he approaches these issues.

[BodybyFisher]

Only 93,000 miles? With the damage to the piston, this appears to be caused by destructive detonation that damaged the piston which in turn damaged the sleeve, mileage has nothing to do with damage like this, this is neglect. And I dont even mean intentional neglect, just someone driving this car that did not watch/listen for detonation and it took its toll.

Seems that water got into the oil as the level went high. I wonder if the ignition wiring was correct when the tune up was done. Its odd that this would happen spontaineously immediately after the tune up. Why was the tune up done in the first place what were the symptoms? Did the engine suffer from detonation, a rattle on acceleration?

This car would never pass inspection in New York as the inspection computer is looking for CEL status and readiness and codes. Why a replacement engine has not been found that fits the bill is beyond me, but maybe in Kansas the state inspection is no big deal. It will be interesting to see how the power steering, cooling, starting and charging systems will be handled

[joeb]

i would vote for finding a good 4100 or maybe 4500, much has been said about late 80's swaps where you move up in displacement with no major install issues. even if i found a really good deal on a SBC, i might pass.

[BodybyFisher]

Here is an article on Detonation and Pre-Ignition by Al Cline. Al Cline is a Northstar Powertrain Engineer. This article illustrates the complexities of detonation and pre-ignition, and states that detonation can cause destructive pre-ignition and engine damage can occur. Something caused the top of your piston to be damaged.

What kind of spark plugs did you use, were they the stock plugs?, or was a plug in the hotter heat range used?

What were the original symptoms, why was the full tune-up done in the first place? Was the timing set? Could the timing chain have let loose?

http://www.streetrodstuff.com/Articles/Engine/Detonation/

[Cadillac Jim]

If you read the original post, then look at the photo, think hydrolock. It loks like maybe excess oil was sucked through the PVC tube and hydrolocked a cylinder while the car was running.

[BodybyFisher]

If you read the original post, then look at the photo, think hydrolock. It loks like maybe excess oil was sucked through the PVC tube and hydrolocked a cylinder while the car was running.

That could be Jim, but he had the correct OIL LEVEL when he started the car, he said this

Im not sure how much oil it takes but i put in 4 quarts and it said it needed more so i put in the full 5.25 i had and it read at the top of the operating range on the dip stick

I think if he hydrolocked it, he would have threw a rod through the block

We need to see how it was running before he did the tune up

[KHE]

i would vote for finding a good 4100 or maybe 4500, much has been said about late 80's swaps where you move up in displacement with no major install issues. even if i found a really good deal on a SBC, i might pass.

A 4.5 engine can't be used - the 4.5 engine was only for transverse FWD applications. The 4100 was available in both the RWD and FWD versions.

[BodybyFisher]

Another interesting statement:

All 12 of the intake bolts that are located under the valve covers I took off by hand

Do you mean the intake manifold bolts were loose by that statement? If I am not mistaken, coolant runs through the intake. Can someone confirm if that is the case?

Is it possible that coolant was sucked into a that cylinder and caused this?

I found this on the 4100

CADILLAC HT4100

It was an attempt at developing a lighter-weight, 4.1 liter engine called the HT4100. This engineering marvel featured an aluminum block, and for reasons unknown, cast iron cylinder heads. Displacing a paltry 249 cubic inches, it produced a meager 135 horsepower at 4,400 rpm. Many of its woes were related to failed head gaskets, which allowed coolant into the crankcase. Naturally, that chain of events resulted in GM supplying tons of crankshafts, camshafts, and related hardware under the AFA program.

You got coolant into your crankcase it appears as the level went way up you stated. Looking at the sleeve deck it looks like it was leaking and looking at the top of the piston, something did lots of damage to it, probably that chunk. I am not sure what caused the chunk to be taken out of the top of the cylinder and the crack. No doubt the valves in this cylinder are bent

Anyone have any thoughts?

What caused the need for a tune up, did you have roughness? If coolant was leaking from that crack into the cylinder, it would steam clean the cylinder bore removing lubricating oil damaging the rings, I wonder if that was part of the top ring land that cracked out or if that missing chunk was from hydrolocking because of the crack. Look at the cylinder walls in that cylinder to see if you see heavy scoring

The crack is something that interests me, what caused it?

[BodybyFisher]

Could this engine have been hydrolocked from the bottom?

If you look at this photo, is that white residue, I circled. This headgasket was leaking internally and externally. Jim, you are probably correct that this was hydrolock, coolant filled the cylinder and was compressed cracking the sleeve?, and cracking the piston at the same time?

I guess if the sleeve did not release the pressure a rod would have cracked, and the top land on the piston just cracked out

So if I see this correct

Head gasket goes bad

At this point, owner feels the need to do a tune up because of a misfire

Allows coolant into cylinder and crankcase

Hydrolocks piston which

Cracks the sleeve to relieve pressure at which time the piston cracks

Valves are bent by piston debris

[Cadillac Jim]

We haven't seen the head, but there are a lot of nicks on the top of the piston indicating metal debris in the cumbustion chamber while the engine was running. On the top of the piston opposite the chip there seems to be an abraded area. Also, above the nick in the piston and toward the crack in the cylinder there is some pretty pounded area of the piston crown, quite possibly the piston material. There is more, much more, on very close inspection. We need to see the combustion chamber in the cylinder head. Perhaps we can tell more from that. However, this whole exercise is a little like trying to understand how an explosion proceeded by looking at photographs of the razed foundation of a house. The only think that I can tell for sure is that cracking a steel cylinder probably was done by hydrolock, because I can't think of how another force large enough to do that could be brought to bear on the cylinder liner.

[KHE]

Could this engine have been hydrolocked from the bottom?

If you look at this photo, is that white residue, I circled. This headgasket was leaking internally and externally. Jim, you are probably correct that this was hydrolock, coolant filled the cylinder and was compressed cracking the sleeve?, and cracking the piston at the same time?

I guess if the sleeve did not release the pressure a rod would have cracked, and the top land on the piston just cracked out

So if I see this correct

Head gasket goes bad

At this point, owner feels the need to do a tune up because of a misfire

Allows coolant into cylinder and crankcase

Hydrolocks piston which

Cracks the sleeve to relieve pressure at which time the piston cracks

Valves are bent by piston debris

Coolant runs through the intake on a 4100 engine. Most of the time it is a leaking intake gasket rather than a head gasket on these engines.

[BodybyFisher]

Kevin can the intake leak coolant into a cylinder and hydrolock the engine?

Keep in mind that this member said that the intake bolts were loose

[KHE]

Kevin can the intake leak coolant into a cylinder and hydrolock the engine?

Keep in mind that this member said that the intake bolts were loose

I would think it is possible.

[Ranger]

I had 2 HT4100's. I replaced the head gasket on one. When it went it was squirting coolant out the side (external leak).

[cheitman]

I have a 83 coupe deville with the 4100. It has 93,000 miles on it and runs fine. I decided to give it a tuneup so I put in new plugs (original delcos were still in it .070 gap) new wires, new distributor cap, rotor, coil and an oil change. Im not sure how much oil it takes but i put in 4 quarts and it said it needed more so i put in the full 5.25 i had and it read at the top of the operating range on the dip stick.

I just finished everything tonight, fired up fine, idled for awhile to make sure everything was ok, sounded smooth no missing. I took it out for a drive and a block down the road after giving it about half throttle the engine started to shake real bad and knock on and off and then white smoke started pouring out of the back of the car. I shut it off. Restarted it and theres alot of clanking and knocking from the engine and sounds like a couple cylinders are firing. White coolant smoke is coming out of BOTH exhaust pipes and I have straight duals. The oil pressure light is on and the oil dipstick is registering VERY high with little coolant in the radiator. No leaks below the car.

So what happened? Its hard to believe BOTH head gaskets blew. Something wrong with the intake maybe?

Im going to drain the oil and see if its just over full or if theirs coolant in it.

Thanks for any help

I have a 1983 HT 4100 engine that I pulled from a limo that I parted out. I was going to put the motor in a car I had, but sold it as is instead. The owner of the limo that I parted out said it was a factory GM replacement and only had around 10,000 miles. I have no documentation to prove it and it is dirty from sitting around for a few years, however, ran great when I put the limo on the trailer. The engine is complete with all accessories, including the EFI. I also have a 200R4 OD transmission. I am in Omaha, NE and you can call me at 402-679-1983.

[Cadillac Jim]

You might be able to verify the engine swap on the limo with the VIN and a CarFAX or perhaps by checking with a friendly Cadillac dealer for free. The engine number and the mileage will be part of the record. Then, you will have documentation of the mileage of the new engine, the current odometer reading of the limo, and you have docs on the motor. This will make the motor a lot easier to sell for a decent price.

[cheitman]

You might be able to verify the engine swap on the limo with the VIN and a CarFAX or perhaps by checking with a friendly Cadillac dealer for free. The engine number and the mileage will be part of the record. Then, you will have documentation of the mileage of the new engine, the current odometer reading of the limo, and you have docs on the motor. This will make the motor a lot easier to sell for a decent price.

The donor car was destroyed at the scrapyard 3 years ago. I no longer have the VIN. I will let the engine go for a very reasonable price as I am tired of looking at it in the garage.

[CoupeDTS]

Sorry I didnt update you all on the swap and other found problems. To start I completely stripped the old 4100 down to bare block for scrap aluminum. Unfortunately the bare block only weighs about 30lbs. But with the intake and a/c condenser I got some decent money. Any way when i got off the oil pan I found pieces of piston in the pan. And this is what happened to that piston that was in that cracked cylinder sleeve..

And here is the 350 I put in. I bought it long block broken in. Just added the chrome, paint and such and cleaned up the frame.

exhaust

Of course i disconnected all computer wiring. Just needed the alternator, starter and distributor wiring. The TH200r4 tranny needed an aftermarket lockup switch. I had to put in a aftermarket electric fuel pump to make the 4-7psi I needed for my carb. The stock in tank pump made 10-15psi, too much. Everything else went pretty good. I used motor mounts, lower coolant hose and some other stuff for a 80s like similar caprice that had a sbc in it. I left the tranny right where it was and dropped in the 350, tacked the motor mounts in place, removed the motor, welded the mounts on. This kept from having driveshaft problems. I ran shorty ceramic headers then straight duals to some turbo mufflers then dumps behind the back wheels. (We dont have emission stuff here in nebraska).

Any questions let me know.