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Scary Brief Engine Misfire


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WOW you guys are great, I appreaciate it greatly.. It is still a pre-mature for me to purchase anything, I am getting ready to go back to Miami for 8 weeks, and I should be in better financial shape when I return... Thanks for doing this prospecting. Mike

Mike,

When you get ready...between Bruce and myself...we will fix you up.

One way or the other. :D:D:D

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WOW you guys are great, I appreaciate it greatly.. It is still a pre-mature for me to purchase anything, I am getting ready to go back to Miami for 8 weeks, and I should be in better financial shape when I return... Thanks for doing this prospecting. Mike

Mike,

When you get ready...between Bruce and myself...we will fix you up.

One way or the other. :D:D:D

thanks man, I love Texan's always did!

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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  • 1 month later...

OK, this problem has continued

I have been starting my car, and I get about 1 minute of missing, but I was not getting a P0300. After about a minute, the engine settles down and is smooth.

It noticed that the miss was staying with me longer over the weekend and it happened a couple times in one day.

Then, leaving a restaurant Saturday night, it was rough, my friend said, that does not sound good, then flashing CEL, and a P0300....

After about 5 minutes the engine again settled down, but I did a few WOTs and it does not feel 100% more like 90%, but that could have been the Chardonnay taking the edge off

I have been worried that I might have a head gasket problem at 125K miles, but my coolant level has remained at the EXACT same level, I just looked at it again.

I have about 75K miles on the plugs and wires, so they are suspect. But what I dont get is why does the engine stabilize after a few minutes, any ideas?

The diagnostics continue, I plan to check my ignition wires, clean and inspect my coil contacts and towers and check all connection (MAF, etc)

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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If this is not ignition, could this be a valve train problem, the 96 has hydraulic lifters correct?, can they leak down? I have the case half leak, if it leaks internally, can there be a problem getting oil pressure to the lifters? (just thinking), but maybe too much..

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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The first symptom of head gasket problems is coolant loss with no other symptoms at all. I don't think that is an issue here.

If you don't have any other codes, such as oxygen sensor (cracked cat) or EVAP codes, you have narrowed it down to no-code tuning problems. These include

  • FPR, particularly if the problem is when it's hot.
  • Fuel pump, fuel pump relay, or fuel pump circuitry.
  • Plugs and wires.
  • Coils.
How come I fell like I'm preaching to the choir here? You know all of this.

CTS-V_LateralGs_6-2018_tiny.jpg
-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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Mike:

If you were suffering from lifter drain down, you would hear the problem. A dry lifter cannot be mistaken for anything else.

When you are double checking electrical connections, keep an open mind to the possibility of a fuel injector solenoid coil that is failing yet operates normally after a short period of warmup (expansion).

An injector failing that way might be detected with an Ohmeter on a "cold" engine or by carefully spraying each injector body with short shots of ice water with the engine at idle.

Jim

Drive your car.

Use your cell phone.

CHOOSE ONE !

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Thanks guys, keep the thoughts coming!

I am getting a P1406 - EGR Valve Pintle Position Circuit code and need to pull my EGR, maybe its dirty and hanging open, think this can cause a P0300?

In the old days we used to push up on the EGR and the idle would stumble, maybe mine is hanging open, but can this cause a miss?

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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Thanks guys, keep the thoughts coming!

I am getting a P1406 - EGR Valve Pintle Position Circuit code and need to pull my EGR, maybe its dirty and hanging open, think this can cause a P0300?

In the old days we used to push up on the EGR and the idle would stumble, maybe mine is hanging open, but can this cause a miss?

A sticking EGR valve could definitely cause a miss/rough idle.

Kevin
'93 Fleetwood Brougham
'05 Deville
'04 Deville
2013 Silverado Z71

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Thanks guys, keep the thoughts coming!

I am getting a P1406 - EGR Valve Pintle Position Circuit code and need to pull my EGR, maybe its dirty and hanging open, think this can cause a P0300?

In the old days we used to push up on the EGR and the idle would stumble, maybe mine is hanging open, but can this cause a miss?

A sticking EGR valve could definitely cause a miss/rough idle.

Thanks, I have a new EGR gasket, ill pull it tomorrow and clean it up, I have had this code on and off for 6 months

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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If this is not ignition, could this be a valve train problem, the 96 has hydraulic lifters correct?, can they leak down? I have the case half leak, if it leaks internally, can there be a problem getting oil pressure to the lifters? (just thinking), but maybe too much..

Yep..you are over-thinking it.

As JimD said, if it was the lifters...you wouldn't have to ask. :D:D

When lifters leak down or collapse, it sounds like about a half dozen of the old, loud, IBM Selectrics, all typing away at one time. :D

Since you have an EGR code, that could very well be your problem with the missing and rough running.

But I will also throw this in...

I had a Chevy 454 a few years ago that ran fine here in N Texas where it is low humidity. I was taking an extended trip to Florida, (HIGH HUMIDITY) and every morning, for two or three minutes, it ran terrible. I checked everything I could think of to check but found nothing wrong.

About the third day I bought a new set of ignition wires.

Put them on the next morning before cranking it up.

No more problems.

The only thing I could think of was that as the wires cooled down overnight, moisture was somehow getting in them.

They LOOKED good, but evidently were not as good as they looked. :D:D:D

Just something to keep in the back of your mind.

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Dew tell. ;)

CTS-V_LateralGs_6-2018_tiny.jpg
-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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If this is not ignition, could this be a valve train problem, the 96 has hydraulic lifters correct?, can they leak down? I have the case half leak, if it leaks internally, can there be a problem getting oil pressure to the lifters? (just thinking), but maybe too much..

Yep..you are over-thinking it.

As JimD said, if it was the lifters...you wouldn't have to ask. :D:D

When lifters leak down or collapse, it sounds like about a half dozen of the old, loud, IBM Selectrics, all typing away at one time. :D

Since you have an EGR code, that could very well be your problem with the missing and rough running.

But I will also throw this in...

I had a Chevy 454 a few years ago that ran fine here in N Texas where it is low humidity. I was taking an extended trip to Florida, (HIGH HUMIDITY) and every morning, for two or three minutes, it ran terrible. I checked everything I could think of to check but found nothing wrong.

About the third day I bought a new set of ignition wires.

Put them on the next morning before cranking it up.

No more problems.

The only thing I could think of was that as the wires cooled down overnight, moisture was somehow getting in them.

They LOOKED good, but evidently were not as good as they looked. :D:D:D

Just something to keep in the back of your mind.

That's what I was thinking too. Mike might want to spray some water on the wires when car does not act up and see if missing returns.

The saddest thing in life is wasted talent

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  • 4 weeks later...

I have to take a trip tomorrow, so I wanted to get rid of this misfire. I pulled my ignition wires out of the coils and looked at the contacts in the wires and at least 4 were corroded and burned. A couple of wires didnt even snap into the coils there were just sitting there. I am on an austerity budget right now, so I cleaned and tightened the contacts, used some dielectric grease (there were NON-ACDELCO wires) and it appears that I have solved the problem. Ill replace those ignition wires as soon as I can.

I also pulled my EGR valve and cleaned it good, the pindle was sticking giving me the P1406 code.

Ill report back tomorrow night from Hartford, Connecticut my full results.

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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Mike,

Good luck on the trip.

Hey thanks Jim, my son graduates from college saturday morning, I am glad the engine is back to normal I was a little worried about taking this trip.. thanks

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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I have to take a trip tomorrow, so I wanted to get rid of this misfire. I pulled my ignition wires out of the coils and looked at the contacts in the wires and at least 4 were corroded and burned. A couple of wires didnt even snap into the coils there were just sitting there. I am on an austerity budget right now, so I cleaned and tightened the contacts, used some dielectric grease (there were NON-ACDELCO wires) and it appears that I have solved the problem. Ill replace those ignition wires as soon as I can.

How about making your own custom set of wires? So far, I have been pleased with my custom made MSD 8.5mm Super Conductor wires and it saved me a bundle of money as well.

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I have to take a trip tomorrow, so I wanted to get rid of this misfire. I pulled my ignition wires out of the coils and looked at the contacts in the wires and at least 4 were corroded and burned. A couple of wires didnt even snap into the coils there were just sitting there. I am on an austerity budget right now, so I cleaned and tightened the contacts, used some dielectric grease (there were NON-ACDELCO wires) and it appears that I have solved the problem. Ill replace those ignition wires as soon as I can.

How about making your own custom set of wires? So far, I have been pleased with my custom made MSD 8.5mm Super Conductor wires and it saved me a bundle of money as well.

How did you do that Ed?, did you use the old boots, where did you get the crimper and new connectors? Interesting idea

The problem is worse than ever I need to fix it, im too busy with other stuff

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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How did you do that Ed?, did you use the old boots, where did you get the crimper and new connectors? Interesting idea

The problem is worse than ever I need to fix it, im too busy with other stuff

I used the existing boots and connectors since they're pretty much Cadillac specific. I bought the crimper and wires from Summit Racing. I did take a bunch of photos while I was making my wires so I could write a procedure on how to do it if there is interest.

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How did you do that Ed?, did you use the old boots, where did you get the crimper and new connectors? Interesting idea

The problem is worse than ever I need to fix it, im too busy with other stuff

I used the existing boots and connectors since they're pretty much Cadillac specific. I bought the crimper and wires from Summit Racing. I did take a bunch of photos while I was making my wires so I could write a procedure on how to do it if there is interest.

Hey thanks, let me check Summit racing and get back. Do you think there are any issues with EMF?, or are these wires heavily shielded? One of the issues with using aftermarket ignition wires was that they 'could' conflict with the injector pulses... maybe this thought is just an old wives tale

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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Hey thanks, let me check Summit racing and get back. Do you think there are any issues with EMF?, or are these wires heavily shielded? One of the issues with using aftermarket ignition wires was that they 'could' conflict with the injector pulses... maybe this thought is just an old wives tale

I have not had any issues with Electromagnatic Interference EMI. These wires have a thicker insulator so if anything, they might produce less noise than stock wires. One way to test for EMI is to listen to noise using an AM radio.

Here's what I bought.

25 ft. Wire roll

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.a...mp;autoview=sku

Crimper

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.a...mp;autoview=sku

Here's what's advertised regarding Radio Frequency Interference (RFI) (aka EMI) for these wires.

MSD's 8.5mm Super Conductor wire has a special helically wound core that has just 40-50 ohms of resistance per foot--but with the RFI suppression equal to a 1,500 ohm wire.

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The 8.5 mm wire in Ed Hall's link has EMI suppression, so it is the "good" wire that is mentioned in the article in the link in his last post. Bu the look of the technical description on Summitt and the article by the MSD tech, you are not going to get a better plug wire and it will have less EMI than the stock wires.

CTS-V_LateralGs_6-2018_tiny.jpg
-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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Thanks Ed for the links and information, they look like terrific wires

Thanks Jim

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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  • 2 weeks later...

Update

I changed my ignition wires and STILL have the misfire on warm up

My old wires were bad, and I do feel the engine is MUCH more powerful but the MISFIRE still happens until the engine is warmed up

I hooked up my Autotap computer diagnostic to it and called up the MISFIRE HISTORY. Cylinders 1 and 3 had 7000 misfires and the other cylinders had very few if any. Cylinders 1 and 3 as we know are ADJACENT to each other and they DO NOT share the same coil.

I am NOT losing any coolant for the last 6 months, but I do feel that I am running a little warm in traffic.

I cant help but think that I am having the beginnings of a head gasket problem. I elected NOT to take my car to Charlottesville, Virginia this past weekend due to the misfire and slight overheating in traffic in 70 degree ambiant temps. I drove my 02 Monte Carlo 3400, and got 30 mpg on the highway, not bad.

Tomorrow I will test my COILS, INJECTOR RESISTANCE and pull the plugs and let you know what I find.

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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