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Brake Pads


JasonA

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Hi everyone,

When installing a set of wheel locks today, I went ahead and pulled the wheels off to check out the brakes. The rear continue to be fine, but the front pads could probably be replaced. Almost 45k miles on them; I'm not complaining. These Bendixes were relatively low-dust, but the dust that did occur was yellowish in color, and looked terrible after driving the car for any distance in the rain.

I'd like a brake pad with the following characteristics, numbered in order of priority:

1) Low dust

2) Quiet

3) Gentle on rotors

I admit that I'm not really up on current friction material technology, and some of those behaviors might be mutually exclusive. But you get an idea of what I want. Notice, I didn't say "extreme stopping power". I don't really care about a pad that will throw me through the windshield -- just something that will keep the wheels clean and will be quiet.

I haven't heard anything bad about the Raybestos Quiet Stop pads. Anyone tried those?

Thanks in advance for your opinions and advice,

Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond)

"When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?"

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I have had success with "rotex gold" brake pads purchased from brakewarehouse.com. They are low dust, used them on original rotors and stop well. The dust produced is definately not yellow, it is subtle, much more subtle than oem pads. I'd say the wheels just look dirty after awhile and not extremely black or yellow. I have nice chrome wheels on the sts and the dust that does accumulate cleans right off real nice.

Christopher Petro

94 sts

67 coupe de Ville

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My mechanic uses Raybestos. He swears by them.

If you really want to make people safe drivers again then simply remove all the safety features from cars. No more seat belts, ABS brakes, traction control, air bags or stability control. No more anything. You'll see how quickly people will slow down and once again learn to drive like "normal" humans.

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I have the RQSP on the front . They are almost dust free, after the "Spring Bedding" (to remove the Winter Storage, rotor rust,). Once bedded, they stop just fine, but the pedal effort seems to be a bit more than OEM pads. I used NEW OEM rotors with the QS pads.

rek

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Installed a set of "Quiet Stop" pads last summer to replace a set of regular Raybestos pads. Stopping power is good and they are really clean and quiet. Wouldn't use anything else now. No more hassle trying to get the black crud off the wheels. That in itself is a major improvement.

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Thanks guys/gals for your quick responses. After doing a little more research, it looks like the Raybestos Quiet Stop Pads have at least some ceramic material in them (they call it a "ceramic blend") and their website characterizes them as "ultra low dusting". So I think I'm going to try them. Pep Boys is the only store around here who carries Raybestos (or at least the only ones who sell them through their online portal).

I hope I don't have to take the car in again to get the caliper support off. Last time I did this (when I put on the drilled rotors), the caliper support would NOT come off, meaning I couldn't change the rotors. I took it in to my local mechanic and they had to wail on them with impact wrenches to get the bolts out. Dealer had loc-tited them for some reason. I don't think my mechanic put any loc-tite back in there (I hope not), and I hope I can get these rotors off so I can bring them in to get cut. Otherwise, I guess I'll have to take them and get them cut with an on-car lathe.

Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond)

"When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?"

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Hi Jason

For what it's worth I have a friend who tests brakes in a brake lab for one of the big 3 car makers

And he swears by bendix he tells me that every test he puts them through they come though with flying colors On his own cars he always puts bendix on them I have used bendix in the past with no problems they make a good product IMHO..

Wheel Locks What are those ???

Cheers

Jim

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Jim:

I like the Bendix, but for two hesitations:

1) The ones I put on have some sort of a "break in" material applied to the pad surface from the factory. Looks like wavy lines of syrup on top of the friction material. About 50 miles after I had the pads and rotors installed, I took the wheels off, just to check things out and take pictures for the website, and I noticed that the rotors were heavily scored already. And they've been that way ever since. Bendix is the only pad I've seen that has a separate "break in" material on it, and I have a suspicion that that's what caused the scoring, but I could be wrong. The scoring is the reason I want to go ahead and have the rotors cut this time. Otherwise, I wouldn't bother.

2) As I stated above, there's a nasty yellow dust on the caliper and on the wheels, especially after driving in the rain. That didn't happen before I had the Bendixes on there, and it's never happened on any of my other cars (which have never had Bendix brakes). Again, I can only attribute this negative characteristic to the brake linings.

I've been happy with the actual performance of the pads. I'd just like something engineered for low dust. I'm pretty happy with the dusting of the Bendix pads (volume, not color), and I figure that if I get something that's actually designed to not dust, I'll be even happier with it. :)

Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond)

"When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?"

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I do have a further question... I assume I'm going to have to take it in to have the rotors cut. I don't think I'll be able to get the caliper supports off myself. I couldn't last time, and I remembered the shop put them back on with air as well (supposed to be torqued to 137 lbs). So what would you do?

1) Put the new pads on first, then go have the rotors cut.

or

2) Go get the rotors cut, then come home and put on the pads.

Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond)

"When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?"

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I am not sure why you are unable to get the support bolts off, you should be able to do it with a 6 point socket and an 18 inch breaker bar. (of course I'm 6'6" 235 pounds, :lol: ) I would not run the new pads on the old rotors until you have them trued up and surfaced with a non-directional finish, so that they seat nicely. Mike

Early on sailors navigated by the stars at night and the North star became the symbol for finding ones way home. Once you know where the Northstar is you can point your ship in the right direction to get home. So the star became a symbol for finding ones way home or more symbolically even finding ones path in life.

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I am not sure why you are unable to get the support bolts off, you should be able to do it with a 6 point socket and an 18 inch breaker bar. (of course I'm 6'6" 235 pounds, :lol: ) I would not run the new pads on the old rotors until you have them trued up and surfaced with a non-directional finish, so that they seat nicely. Mike

I'm 6'0" and 230 pounds, so I figured I'd have no problem. I had a 6-point socket and a ~15" cheater bar on top of the 12" ratchet handle. No deal. Like I said, they had put Loctite on there, and I couldn't figure out why. The tire shop that did the brakes for me said they've never seen Loctite on something like that. Then I go home and break out the service manual and it says to use Loctite on the support bolts. :P

Who knows...either way, I'll try to get them off, but have a feeling I'll be out of luck. I see "cons" to both approaches. I don't want to have the rotors cut first, and then have the old pads with the ridges score them up again. But I don't want to run the old rotors, with the grooves, on the new pads. I'm just barely leaning towards putting on the new pads first, and gently driving it straight to the shop (if I can't get the caliper supports off) and having the rotors cut, because I don't think the old rotors would damage the new pads that much, but I am afraid of the old pads scoring up the freshly cut rotors on the way home.

The other approach I've thought of is buying AC-Delco brake pads (either at Advance or at GMPartsdirect) and taking them to my local GM dealer, and having them cut the rotors and install the fresh pads at the same time. I'd expect them to balk at installing a customer's Raybestos pads, but he mentioned before (when I was inquiring about front struts) that they "have to" (for labor fees obviously) install a customer's part if it's a GM or AC-Delco part.

Decisions, decisions.

Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond)

"When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?"

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The Quiet-Stops are good pads. I also like the Performance Friction pads. Bendix pads are on my car right now and they are great too. One point to ponder: in our area, most police departments specify Bendix-ONLY for their cars. They claim they are the best. You're in luck though, your requirements are very simple to meet and virtually any basic pads would work for you. Aggressive pads= dust and noise. Non-aggressive pads= low dust and quiet.

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I put ceramics on mine and I won't go back.

Randy, what brand, and what price, did you put on yours?

Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond)

"When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?"

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I am not sure why you are unable to get the support bolts off, you should be able to do it with a 6 point socket and an 18 inch breaker bar. (of course I'm 6'6" 235 pounds,  :lol: )  I would not run the new pads on the old rotors until you have them trued up and surfaced with a non-directional finish, so that they seat nicely.  Mike

I'm 6'0" and 230 pounds, so I figured I'd have no problem. I had a 6-point socket and a ~15" cheater bar on top of the 12" ratchet handle. No deal. Like I said, they had put Loctite on there, and I couldn't figure out why. The tire shop that did the brakes for me said they've never seen Loctite on something like that. Then I go home and break out the service manual and it says to use Loctite on the support bolts. :P

Who knows...either way, I'll try to get them off, but have a feeling I'll be out of luck. I see "cons" to both approaches. I don't want to have the rotors cut first, and then have the old pads with the ridges score them up again. But I don't want to run the old rotors, with the grooves, on the new pads. I'm just barely leaning towards putting on the new pads first, and gently driving it straight to the shop (if I can't get the caliper supports off) and having the rotors cut, because I don't think the old rotors would damage the new pads that much, but I am afraid of the old pads scoring up the freshly cut rotors on the way home.

The other approach I've thought of is buying AC-Delco brake pads (either at Advance or at GMPartsdirect) and taking them to my local GM dealer, and having them cut the rotors and install the fresh pads at the same time. I'd expect them to balk at installing a customer's Raybestos pads, but he mentioned before (when I was inquiring about front struts) that they "have to" (for labor fees obviously) install a customer's part if it's a GM or AC-Delco part.

Decisions, decisions.

I do know that it was hard to get those bolts off you are right, but with a lot of effort they did come off. I am surprised to hear you are having that much trouble with them especially using the correct tools. Dumb question, do be offended since the bolts are facing away from you when you take them off are you sure that you are turning them in the correct direction? Listen, I have not done my brakes yet on the 96, so the same could happen to me. I have even hung the ratched handle down and used foot power to remove some bolts (my strut rod nut and the bracket you are referring to), so I know that some bolts can be nearly impossible. If I am not mistaken, those bolt holes are drilled straight through, try some penetrating oil or a good quality of a WD40 type of penetrant on the thread side if you can get to it. And you are correct, they do say to use loctite. Good Luck with it, try it again, maybe they were frozen the last time! Mike

Early on sailors navigated by the stars at night and the North star became the symbol for finding ones way home. Once you know where the Northstar is you can point your ship in the right direction to get home. So the star became a symbol for finding ones way home or more symbolically even finding ones path in life.

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Dumb question, do be offended since the bolts are facing away from you when you take them off are you sure that you are turning them in the correct direction?

Yes, and if I remember correctly, that was some of the problem. On the driver's size, the ratchet has to get rotated "up", towards the car/wheelwell, and there just wasn't much room to work there. But that was before I had a garage and a good set of 'stands, so I might be able to make it work this time. Hopefully, I can get both sides off and not have to worry about taking it anywhere!

Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond)

"When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?"

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Dumb question, do be offended since the bolts are facing away from you when you take them off are you sure that you are turning them in the correct direction?

Yes, and if I remember correctly, that was some of the problem. On the driver's size, the ratchet has to get rotated "up", towards the car/wheelwell, and there just wasn't much room to work there. But that was before I had a garage and a good set of 'stands, so I might be able to make it work this time. Hopefully, I can get both sides off and not have to worry about taking it anywhere!

I know exactly when you mean! THAT is a rough position to get a strong pull on lots of pressure on back, if you can get the car high enough try pulling it from the front with the ratched handle down. Good Luck, let us know, Mike

Early on sailors navigated by the stars at night and the North star became the symbol for finding ones way home. Once you know where the Northstar is you can point your ship in the right direction to get home. So the star became a symbol for finding ones way home or more symbolically even finding ones path in life.

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This is an excellent case for an impact wrench.

You could use a breaker bar and let the handle end touch the concrete. Lower the car as to use it's weight to force the breaker bar up.

Kevin
'93 Fleetwood Brougham
'05 Deville
'04 Deville
2013 Silverado Z71

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This is an excellent case for an impact wrench.

Yes, and I don't have one...not even an electric one. :(

I feel a little leary about using a "slow steady" torque on it (like lowering the car on the wrench) because the knuckles on the '97 are aluminum, and I don't want to cause any damage to the threads. Is Loctite also a lubricant? Maybe that's why it's specified. Anyway, I know an impact would back those bolts out pretty easily, and if I had one, it'd be a non-issue. Maybe this would make the case for one. :)

Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond)

"When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?"

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Good point on the aluminum threads. I forgot the knuckle was aluminum.

What grade of Loctite was used? The blue or service removable shouldn't be a problem but if 271 (red) was used, that's the high strength loctite.

When you buy an impact wrench, go for an air impact and get the highest amount of reverse torque you can afford. Avoid the $39.95 models as they are way too light duty to be of any use.

Kevin
'93 Fleetwood Brougham
'05 Deville
'04 Deville
2013 Silverado Z71

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Hi Jason,

I use Raybestos QS brake pads with the Raybestos drilled and slotted rotors on the front of my blue STS, and Raybestos QS brake pads with standard rotors on my white STS.

Both cars stop very well, with extremely low dusting. My blue STS seems to stop a little shorter than the white, but not by too much. I also try not to abuse my brake system, so it works when I really need it.

The dusting that does occur is easily washed off with no residue.

On the caliper bolts, I haven’t found them to be any real problem to remove. I just use an allen wrench and a little cheater to loosen them. Is salt corroding yours?

You might try chasing the caliper bolt hole threads to clean them up.

For the bolts, replace with new ones, or spray the cleaned threads with hi temperature header paint, before lubing the bolt shafts and reinstalling them would help. Anti-seize would also work, but I’m not sure if it would allow the bolts to work loose after awhile or not.

-George

Drive'em like you own 'em. - ....................04 DTS............................

DTS_Signature.jpg

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Kevin, I'd probably go for an electric, since I have no space or desire for an air compressor at the moment. I'd probably just buy a cheap one, since it'd cost me $50 anyway to have the rotors turned on the car. If I can buy the gun for that, and then have the rotors cut for $10 each, I'd at least get an impact gun for cheap and be able to use it for a while.

George, the caliper bolts I can get okay. It's the caliper support bolts (the ones that bolt the caliper support to the knuckle) that are on there. I think it was the red Loctite that the dealer had put on. Expert Tire didn't put any Loctite on it I don't think when they reinstalled everything, so hopefully I can get 'em out. It was no problem on my wife's '97 Saturn. They came out easy. Piddly little bolts. The ones on the Cadillac are monsters comparatively. :)

Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond)

"When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?"

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Jason,

Why do you need to remove the caliper support? Once the caliper is removed, the rotor comes right off. Unless there was a different setup for the '97 vs. '96.

Once you have an air compressor, you will wonder how you ever got along without one. Sears makes some nice upright models that don't take up much floor space.

Kevin
'93 Fleetwood Brougham
'05 Deville
'04 Deville
2013 Silverado Z71

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