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The End of the U.S. Piano Industry


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I don't necessarily agree with this viewpoint, but for the sake of argument it is an interesting comparison. You know . . . the buggy whip thing . . .

http://mises.org/story/3253

"Let's say that FDR had initiated a bailout of the piano industry and then even taken it over and nationalized it. The same firms would have made the same pianos for decades and decades. But that wouldn't have stopped the Japanese industry from taking off in the 1960s and '70s. Americans would have far preferred them because they would have been cheaper. American pianos, because they would be state owned, would fall in quality, lower and lower to the point that they would become like a Soviet car in the 1960s. Of course you could set up tariff barriers. That would have forced American pianos on us. Except for one thing: demand would still have collapsed. The pianos still have to have a market. But let's say you find a workaround for that problem by requiring everyone to own a piano. You still can't make people play them and value them."

Regards,

Warren

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There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises

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I don't think that the analogy with pianos is that strong. The simple fact is that several countries around the world have private car companies that can compete in the world market and do; most but not all of them are imported into the US. In fact, I see the South Korean auto industry as in the midst of a rapid rise, and Japan Inc. seems to me to have peaked overall.

There is one thing about the piano industry that is important, though. Japan Inc. got entry and dominance in a lot of markets, auto and otherwise, by copying others' designs and subsidizing the manufacture and export of the clones, then gradually withdrew the subsidy after the competition fell away. The product isn't necessarily better and often is worse. The Volkswagen bug got usually less than 20 mpg with a top speed of 75 mph in a 2,000 pound car that had a higher injury and death rate per passenger mile and per accident than the average motorcycle, and its emissions could not be controlled or fixed economically. The original Hondas and Nissans (Datsuns back then) would rust so bad that after 5 years they wouldn't throw shade, and I saw that in Rhode Island, not in the hard-core salt belt. The early Hondas and Toyotas had very poor safety records, particularly that first tiny Civic and the early Tercel models, which again were more dangerous than motorcycles.

And, I would wager that the best piano the Japanese have to offer doesn't really top the best Steinway of the day. Unfortunately a little-known fact is that the life of a concert-quality piano is limited to about 10 years; eventually it can't be tuned perfectly anymore and the actions of the keys and pedals deteriorates, so a direct comparison would require an expensive restoration and a new harp. But, people who played both are still available, and we can ask them.

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In the 80's I appraised the Steinway building on West 57th Street in Manhattan. At the time they were moaning about sales and Japanese pianos. Steinway had a basement and warehouse full of exquisite aged wood. According to afficianado's the wood adds/enhances the sound quality of the piano.

Its a shame when things like this happen, but in fact, its about utility. Why spend $50,000 when a $10,000 piano performs the same function.

It sort of reminds me of the Audio Amplifier argument that tubes are better than transistors. The fact is transistors are cheaper than tubes. I'd love to have a SUMO AB tube amp but the price is ridicuous. The less expensive alternative is a MOS-FET amp that has warmth and the bass impact of a tube amp, especially when its modified with huge caps . Japanese transistor amps have been know as edgy and over rated power wise. Its about utility vs cost, etc.

It seems that only true afficianados can appreciate the difference, and the question is, is the additional cost worth it, given that its the same utility. There are so many things like this and I believe Vehicles fall into this. For many people its about getting from point A to point B as inexpensively as possible, with no consideration given toward safety for themselves or their passengers. How the EXPLORER continued to sell over the years is an example of that, I would NEVER own one given their propensity to rollover. One mistake causing you to get sideways and you and your passengers are dead or seriously injured, why did people take that risk? I can't tell you how many people ignore and refute the possibility that the Explorer rolls over. To me its ignorant.

I don't think we have many point A to point B members here

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I don't think we have many point A to point B members here

Maybe "ME".... :D

But I do like to get to point "B" quickly, comfortably and in "CADILLAC STYLE"....

:D:D:D

:D

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

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How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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Strangely enough, I own an American built piano, an A.B. Smith. They were built in Chicago. According to the serial number mine will be 100 years old in 2009. It's an upright piano with a sound board that rivals a Steinway. I taught myself how to play piano after reading a few college level music theory books, I sat down at the piano and started from scratch, scales and upward to songs. It's not as hard to play as you think. I've also played a comparable (size, weight, design) Yamaha piano and I thought it was total junk. Sounded like a tin, tinker board.

By the way, for all the parents out there, it's a known fact that children who receive piano lessons excel academically especially in the field of math.

If you really want to make people safe drivers again then simply remove all the safety features from cars. No more seat belts, ABS brakes, traction control, air bags or stability control. No more anything. You'll see how quickly people will slow down and once again learn to drive like "normal" humans.

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The mathematics of music is truly amazing. For example, if you take the traditional descriptions of the intervals between notes literally and use it to define a scale of notes (or tune a piano), each octave will be off somewhere about eight decimal placed down in the number indicating the frequency of the note. Thus it has been known that it is impossible to tune a piano perfectly for hundreds of years. Of course, if you hold to the tradition of an octave as being exactly 2:1 and the interval to the first overtone of any note, then you resolve the contradiction by adjusting one or more of the traditional note intervals -- but which one(s)?

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-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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The mathematics of music is truly amazing. For example, if you take the traditional descriptions of the intervals between notes literally and use it to define a scale of notes (or tune a piano), each octave will be off somewhere about eight decimal placed down in the number indicating the frequency of the note. Thus it has been known that it is impossible to tune a piano perfectly for hundreds of years. Of course, if you hold to the tradition of an octave as being exactly 2:1 and the interval to the first overtone of any note, then you resolve the contradiction by adjusting one or more of the traditional note intervals -- but which one(s)?

It all starts at "Concert A" which is 440. You can read about it and note the chart here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piano_tuning

However, what I meant about children excelling in math from studying piano is basically because for one thing piano teaches fractions as time is measured in fractions. Also, chords are simply mathematical equations and once you know the mathematical equation that makes up a chord, you can play a chord anywhere on a piano's keyboard.

If you really want to make people safe drivers again then simply remove all the safety features from cars. No more seat belts, ABS brakes, traction control, air bags or stability control. No more anything. You'll see how quickly people will slow down and once again learn to drive like "normal" humans.

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Strangely enough, I own an American built piano, an A.B. Smith. They were built in Chicago. According to the serial number mine will be 100 years old in 2009. It's an upright piano with a sound board that rivals a Steinway. I taught myself how to play piano after reading a few college level music theory books, I sat down at the piano and started from scratch, scales and upward to songs. It's not as hard to play as you think. I've also played a comparable (size, weight, design) Yamaha piano and I thought it was total junk. Sounded like a tin, tinker board.

By the way, for all the parents out there, it's a known fact that children who receive piano lessons excel academically especially in the field of math.

My 11 yo daughter plays, she picked it right up and has been taking lessons for 4 years. She got evaluated by NYMSA last year. AND she is getting better at math..

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Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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There is one thing about the piano industry that is important, though. Japan Inc. got entry and dominance in a lot of markets, auto and otherwise, by copying others' designs and subsidizing the manufacture and export of the clones, then gradually withdrew the subsidy after the competition fell away. The product isn't necessarily better and often is worse.

It's also important to note that in the years after WWII Japan and Europe were decimated. We gave them extraordinary trade preferences in order to see their economies restored. Those preferences were later extended as part of an agreement that ensured U.S. military hegemony as a quid pro quo. We "paid" dearly for that hegemony and continue to do so today.

Unlike Europe, Japan maximized their benefits under this program by pushing the envelope to the breaking point (and occasionally beyond). They were penalized many times for their "dumping" efforts, but never severely enough to bring an end to such practices.

Regards,

Warren

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There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises

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I've also played a comparable (size, weight, design) Yamaha piano and I thought it was total junk. Sounded like a tin, tinker board.

By the way, for all the parents out there, it's a known fact that children who receive piano lessons excel academically especially in the field of math.

Marika,

Totally without regard to the fact that I initially launched the "Piano" thread, I remain shamefully ignorant of them things. Given my work field, I'd be interested in hearing about electronic keyboards. Do you have any experience with them? Thoughts?

The supposed correlation between music and math sounds quite plausible. I'll be on the lookout for studies related to that.

Regards,

Warren

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There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises

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I've also played a comparable (size, weight, design) Yamaha piano and I thought it was total junk. Sounded like a tin, tinker board.

By the way, for all the parents out there, it's a known fact that children who receive piano lessons excel academically especially in the field of math.

Marika,

Totally without regard to the fact that I initially launched the "Piano" thread, I remain shamefully ignorant of them things. Given my work field, I'd be interested in hearing about electronic keyboards. Do you have any experience with them? Thoughts?

The supposed correlation between music and math sounds quite plausible. I'll be on the lookout for studies related to that.

Regards,

Warren

In a most unscientific explanation it's all about the way a string is struck by a felt hammer and how the vibration slows. I believe they refer to this phenomena as "harmonics" while the string is vibrating and the vibration is slowing down. The most famous example of harmonics is the end piece of that Beatles song where the piano chord is recorded as the longest chord played in history. Good hi-fi equipment reproduces the subtle shifts in the harmonics of the chord. Well, electronic keyboards pretty much lack those subtle harmonics. No matter what Yamaha claims (they build most high end electronic pianos) there IS something missing from the sound their E-pianos make.

You can start here to read about the study regarding music and education:

http://www.steinway.com/noteworthy/educati...education.shtml

Yes, it's Steinway's website but you can further research the studies they mention.

If you really want to make people safe drivers again then simply remove all the safety features from cars. No more seat belts, ABS brakes, traction control, air bags or stability control. No more anything. You'll see how quickly people will slow down and once again learn to drive like "normal" humans.

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Another issue is the ability to get subtle changes in the volume of the note by changing the intensity of how hard a key is hit, keyboards a trying to perfect this, but you need to spend a ton to buy a keyboard with that capability.

I am also not sure if keyboards have the three pedals of a piano

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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You can start here to read about the study regarding music and education:

http://www.steinway.com/noteworthy/educati...education.shtml

Yes, it's Steinway's website but you can further research the studies they mention.

From that Steinway site:

Piano Training In Early Childhood Has Lasting Rewards

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There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises

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Yes, what a precious site.

If you really want to make people safe drivers again then simply remove all the safety features from cars. No more seat belts, ABS brakes, traction control, air bags or stability control. No more anything. You'll see how quickly people will slow down and once again learn to drive like "normal" humans.

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Yes, what a precious site.

I could be wrong, but that child looks like a math genius to me. :D

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There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises

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