Prop_Washer2 Posted May 29, 2004 Report Share Posted May 29, 2004 Here we go, '92 STS 4.9, 146k, for about a year or two, when you turned the key, just a click, turn it again it fired right up. So after we had been working on a cooling issue, and I was outta town the wife had a mechanic pop a starter in it, 146k fugured about time... started good for a few days after that. Then starter would not go, acted like weak battery. I got stranded, went under the hood, battery terminals were loose. I only had pliers, tightened 'em and off it went. Now it has the same start problem. It may start first click, if not it just binds up, no cranking, just groans. Guru suggested look at in internal corrosion on term. Positive term was corroded, cleaned with wire brush. Also pulled cable end out of the protective plastic, and it was corroded on the engine side as well. got it pretty well cleaned up. No help...charged battery, (it is a fairly new Walmart 780 CCA MAXX Model) took it down to Autozone, they tested it (50 amp load for 1 minute), said it was ok. A mechanic friend came over, and Guru's advice, perhaps internal corrosion in the cable head. So I cut the cable end off, 3 heavy wires going into it, trimmed off the insulation. The wires were a little corroded (green and white oxidation). I bought a side terminal adapter to allow the bare wires to be clamped into it. I cleaned them up with Diet Pepsi (its all that I had). They cleaned up pretty good. Clamped them down tight, hit the key it fired right up. Shut it off, tried again, woof, same problem. Acts like the starter is intermittently dragging. When it turns over good, it turns over fast and good. Otherwise it cant turn it over...just groans of sorts... Question; Is 50 amp load for 1 minute sufficient to test battery? Starter is probably a re-built off the shelf...is it common for a rebuilt starter to be bad and drag? Are there some voltage tests I can do while the cranking is underway, to better test the battery? Can I light a stick of Dynomite and blow it all up without going to jail...any ideas out there, Thanks! I think the battery is failing under the heavy load not detected during the load test at Autozone. And I feel if the starter was bad and dragging, it would drag all of the time. Not the ocassional GOOD crank it gets on occasion. Sure would like to get this old puppy back on the road... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marika Posted May 29, 2004 Report Share Posted May 29, 2004 Might also be the ignition module. If you really want to make people safe drivers again then simply remove all the safety features from cars. No more seat belts, ABS brakes, traction control, air bags or stability control. No more anything. You'll see how quickly people will slow down and once again learn to drive like "normal" humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prop_Washer2 Posted May 29, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2004 It fires and runs fine when it gets a good crank over...BTW, I just pulled up the wife's SUV, pulled out the jumper cables. Put 'em on, same thing, bumped it a few more times, viola, it cranked over real good, started right up. I shut it down, went to crank it again, a little weaker this time, but it started, shut it down again, went to crank itv again, it just acts like a dead battery ( which I think I have ruled out especially with a pair of hot jumper cables) or the starter is bound up, or Iintermittently weak. Can a starter crank good one minute, and be weak the next few trys??? Sounds like the flywheel to starter engagement is normal... Anybody got some Dynamite on sale??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted May 29, 2004 Report Share Posted May 29, 2004 If I read your post correctly you are finding corrosion in the cables and cleaning them. Perhaps there is corrosion farther back in the cable causing the problem. Maybe replacing the entire cable is in order. Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prop_Washer2 Posted May 29, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2004 I bought two new cables from Checker, they are a simple single cable, battery terminal for side post on one end, and an eyelet on the other. I looked at the original, and the positive cable has (3) heavy leads going who knows where...looks like a major job. My mechanic friend said prob one goes to the starter, one to the fuse block, and mybe another to the switch or somewhere else. The one to the starter solonoid, although hard to see, it feels clean and tight...and I believe most corrosion occurs at the battery terminal area... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Concours Posted May 29, 2004 Report Share Posted May 29, 2004 My 90Seville 4.5 is doing the exact same thing. For about the last year, most of the time you get a single click on the first start. Let off the key and start it again and it starts right up. Kind of thought it might be the neutral safety switch, but when I was in the "click" mode, I moved the gear shift lever thru all the gears. Still didn't start. Just put in a new battery in case that was the problem, but it still does it. I only have around 70k. Jeff Jeff 98 Concours 90 Seville 04 Corvette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike5514 Posted May 29, 2004 Report Share Posted May 29, 2004 On my 4.1 I was going through a check list and it said to check a ground cable on the left front lower corner of the block (pass. side front of engine) I did it and the bolt was backed out the cable was just hanging, cleaned and tightened it, did not solve my problem but it might yours. The 4.5 may or may not have one it is hard to get to. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prop_Washer2 Posted May 30, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2004 I'll see if I can find the grounding points on the block...could be the problem. It just really acts like a borderline weak battery. One good crank, that's it. If hot forget it...I guess I can just pop in a new battery and see...but if it doesn't start with a good hot jump from another vehicle, it kinda points to the starter or like you say, ground or something related to the cables... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prop_Washer2 Posted May 30, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2004 Food for thought, I went out just now, engine is cool, turned on the headlights (it's dark outside), they are bright, turned the key, it turned over slowley once, then just sits there. No more cranking...while I have the key in the crank position though, the lights dim a little say 10-15% dimmer, thats it. I guess if the battery had a bad or weak cell they would prob dim a lot more...maybe you guys know more, but from my experience I am thinking bad ground, or bad starter, even though it was recently replaced... Anyone know where the negative cable grounds to the block on a '92 Seville 4.9L ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
don280z Posted May 30, 2004 Report Share Posted May 30, 2004 My '92 was doing this also (click,click,start)..., I replaced the starter (with a rebuilt one). It fixed the problem but generated another.... Now, when engine/starter was hot, it would hardly turn over.... Turned out to be a bad starter. I replaced it again, and everything works great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinW Posted May 30, 2004 Report Share Posted May 30, 2004 If you suspect a bad engine ground, the quickest test would be to connect a jumper cable between a good engine ground (unpainted, clean metal) and the negative battery terminal, and try cranking again. All electrical connections can be checked by connecting systematically a voltmeter across each junction/cable and reading the voltage while under load; excessive voltage drop would indicate a poor connection or failing cable. ___________________________________________________ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinW Posted May 30, 2004 Report Share Posted May 30, 2004 Now, when engine/starter was hot, it would hardly turn over.... Turned out to be a bad starter. I replaced it again, and everything works great! When you buy "rebuilt", you're buying someone else's spiffed-up, failed part, and hoping that the rebuilder was sharp enough to correct the problem. It sounds like the first one had a problem with a more expensive piece like the armature or a field coil. A remanufactured part (mostly new parts) should be almost like new, however, I've encountered some assembly slip-ups with those too. Your best bet is to buy a new part or repair it yourself using a quality component. ___________________________________________________ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prop_Washer2 Posted May 30, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2004 Duh, I don't know why I didn't try a jumper cable from the neg term to engine ground, just went out and tried it, still no start, sounds like the poster, 2 posts earlier, hit it on the head, needs a new starter. I'll call the mechanic who changed it out while I was outta town, and get him to replace the starter under warranty. I hope that fixes it. Kinda wish I hadn't cut the battery cable positive terminal end off, but it was crappy and corroded inside, sure looks like hell now with 3 fat wires under a clamp terminal...Oh well, thanks a bunch guys, my money is on the "Bad Starter"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prop_Washer2 Posted May 30, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2004 Hmmm...I had a thought, I was looking around on various websites last night, to see if Autozone, Checker, etc... offered a "Heavy-Duty" Heat Buster type starter as a replacement, and I noticed several warnings about 1/8" clearance on the starter nose, shims are included along with special instructions. Could my wife's mechanic (whom I don't know) may have not known about the 1/8", and maybe the darn replacement starter he used is ok, just installed wrong? It does spin good in 1 crank out of 10, maybe it's binding. Just a thought until I get ahold of him on this Holiday weekend. Could I loosen it up, say 1/8" or so and see if it works or is it a non issue. Anyone installed a starter on one of these old 4.9's ?? Thanks again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marika Posted May 30, 2004 Report Share Posted May 30, 2004 Assuming that the starter motor will mesh with the flywheel, what's the condition of the flywheel? If you really want to make people safe drivers again then simply remove all the safety features from cars. No more seat belts, ABS brakes, traction control, air bags or stability control. No more anything. You'll see how quickly people will slow down and once again learn to drive like "normal" humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prop_Washer2 Posted May 30, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2004 Flywheel "sounds" good, when it is engaged...haven't actually looked at it though... It acts like a starter with "dead spots" or a "binding" that happens 9 times out of 10 when cranking... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prop_Washer2 Posted June 1, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2004 Well just finished up installing a New starter, an Autilote Pro Rebuilt from Chacker $75.00, with all new guts, evrything. Pulled out the old one (3 month old) low end refurb. It took me 10 to 12 hours, a real pain in the *smurf*, but got it in there, fired right up! Halaluah.. Starts great now... Thank God it fixed the problem... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prop_Washer2 Posted June 4, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2004 Well I put on an Autolite Pro Rebuilt from Checker Auto, all new guts, only the housing is reused...lifetime warranty plus 2 year roadside...it took me 10 hours, thought I was gonna die...starts GREAT now!!! Finished Monday at noon, drove to work, today at lunch, I was driving around, and tranny started slipping, BIG TIME...and started smelling that funny odor, pulled in a K-Mart parking lot, peeing oil all over hell and georgia, like a water hose. Looked under the left front behing the Radiator driver side, a cooling line to the radiator, at the connector seperated the rubber from the crimp on (factory) end fitting. I touched it and the hose just came unattached from the end piece. I noticed a ring clamp on the other side of the connector, and pulled the connector out, about a 3/8" barbed on that side, so I fugured it has to be a low pressure line. Walked to Pep Boys 3 blocks away, bought a tranny line connector, with barbs on both ends. Got it on there, 1 hour install, 1.5 hours chasing parts, tightened the clamps, poured in 4 quarts of Dexron III, back on the road. Jeez...this little Seville is trying to kill me... I fix one thing then another...too much fun!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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