Ranger Posted December 11, 2008 Report Share Posted December 11, 2008 I don't know why everyone seems to think that Chapter 11 will rid the big three of the UAW or it's contracts. The UAW is the elected bargaining agent and is there to stay as are the contracts. Chapter 11 WILL allow for renegotiating those contracts. As for Japanese cars that are made here, the difference is that the profits go to Japan. I wonder who they will ask for a bailout or a loan if their time comes. Here is a little something to ponder. I was not aware of this, but found it quite interesting. Take what you will from it. Ford, Chrysler and GM's contributions after 9/11 'CNN Headline News did a short news listing regarding Ford and GM's contributions to the relief and recovery efforts in New York and Washington. The findings are as follows..... 1. Ford- $10 million to American Red Cross matching employee contributions of the same number plus 10 Excursions to NY Fire Dept. The company also offered ER response team services and office space to displaced government employees. 2. GM- $10 million to American Red Cross matching employee contributions of the same number and a fleet of vans, suv's, and trucks. 3. Daimler Chrysler- $10 million to support of the children and victims of the Sept. 11 attack. 4. Harley Davidson motorcycles- $1 million and 30 new motorcycles to the New York Police Dept. 5. Volkswagen-Employees and management created a Sept 11 Foundation, funded initial with $2 million, for the assistance of the children and victims of the WTC. 6. Hyundai- $300,000 to the American Red Cross. 7. Audi-Nothing. 8. BMW-Nothing. 9. Daewoo- Nothing. 10. Fiat-Nothing. 11. Honda- Nothing despite boasting of second best sales month ever in August 2001 12. Isuzu- Nothing. 13. Mitsubishi-Nothing. 14. Nissan-Nothing. 15. Porsche-Nothing. Press release with condolences via the Porsche website. 16. Subaru- Nothing. 17. Suzuki- Nothing. 18. Toyota-Nothing despite claims of high sales in July and August 2001. Condolences posted on the website Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted December 12, 2008 Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 The union contracts need to be renegotiated down to the competition's wage levels, if bankruptcy accomplishes that, I am all for it. GM can not pay workers average salarys of $75 per hour while competing manufacturers pay $30 to $35 Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEldo97 Posted December 12, 2008 Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 The union contracts need to be renegotiated down to the competition's wage levels, if bankruptcy accomplishes that, I am all for it. GM can not pay workers average salarys of $75 per hour while competing manufacturers pay $30 to $35 Bingo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimD Posted December 12, 2008 Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 The union contracts need to be renegotiated down to the competition's wage levels, if bankruptcy accomplishes that, I am all for it. GM can not pay workers average salarys of $75 per hour while competing manufacturers pay $30 to $35 Just to maintain an apples-to-apples perspective on the labor cost aspect of the situation, I have to question the source of your information, Mike. It appears to me the GM labor cost figure of $75/hour would include wages plus benefits while the "transplant's" figure includes only direct wages. I don't believe the total labor cost difference is double. I have been wrong before today. Moot point. The US Senate tonight killed the Bill passed by the US House of Representatives. Further action on a Detroit Three loan will not happen before mid-January, 2009, if then. Federal bankrupcy court clerks will be busy over the holiday season. Jim Drive your car. Use your cell phone. CHOOSE ONE ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolnesss Posted December 12, 2008 Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 These sentiments extend to other goods as well. Don’t buy Red Chinese manufactured crap! In Mexico, they're selling Chinese cars - at a chain of electronics/furniture stores. The tax drivers bought some initially because they're real cheap --- and within a few months they have already earned the reputation as "disposable". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thu Posted December 12, 2008 Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 It appears to me the GM labor cost figure of $75/hour would include wages plus benefits while the "transplant's" figure includes only direct wages. I don't believe the total labor cost difference is double. I have been wrong before today. I believe BodybyFisher's information is correct. the $28 to $30/hr figure is TOTAL compensation which includes benefits. However, I cannot pin down a source for that information other than newspaper quotes. I could be wrong, too, but I'm trying to find a reliable source of this info. 2003 Seville STS 43k miles with the Bose Sound, Navigation System, HID Headlamps, and MagneRide 1993 DeVille. Looks great inside and out! 298k miles! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thu Posted December 12, 2008 Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 Okay, found a source that might help clear this wage-gap issue a bit. Here is an article that originated in the USA Today tabloid and reprinted here: http://www.wzzm13.com/news/news_story.aspx?storyid=102285 With benefits, the Detroit three pays their UAW workers more than $70/hr. The Transplants pay their workers less than $45/hr including benefits. 2003 Seville STS 43k miles with the Bose Sound, Navigation System, HID Headlamps, and MagneRide 1993 DeVille. Looks great inside and out! 298k miles! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted December 12, 2008 Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 Another way to level the ground is increasing "transplants" workers salary to match one of Big Three ones and unionize them as well. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan Posted December 12, 2008 Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 The Grand Rapids info is bad. The famous '$73' per hour is this... For every (1) GM employee currently working 1 hour...GM is paying $73 dollars out during that 1 hour. This includes the hourly wage for the 1 employee working. Plus health care, plus retired health care, plus pension costs for everyone whom has ever worked for GM. No GM hourly worker is making $584 per day. That would equal $2980 per week. That would equal $154k per year. It's bad data. Most GM workers make about $55K with overtime. The GM pension is actually currently overfunded. Labor is only 10% of the cost of a new vehicle. The transplants wages are based on what UAW workers make. IF UAW goes away...guess what happens to the transplants wages....there is no contract. Down, down, down. Logan Diagnostic LLC www.airbagcrash.com www.logandieselusa.com www.ledfix.com www.ledfix.com/yukontaillightrepair.html www.ledfix.com/ledreplacements.html www.ledfix.com/j42385toolrental.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted December 12, 2008 Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 These sentiments extend to other goods as well. Don’t buy Red Chinese manufactured crap! In Mexico, they're selling Chinese cars - at a chain of electronics/furniture stores. The tax drivers bought some initially because they're real cheap --- and within a few months they have already earned the reputation as "disposable". I met a guy over the summer that 'schools' Chinese auto makers on making their automobiles attractive to the American market. At the time he was looking for private Showroom space in Manhattan or Jersey City for the manufacturers to showcase their vehicles. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted December 12, 2008 Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 The union contracts need to be renegotiated down to the competition's wage levels, if bankruptcy accomplishes that, I am all for it. GM can not pay workers average salarys of $75 per hour while competing manufacturers pay $30 to $35 Just to maintain an apples-to-apples perspective on the labor cost aspect of the situation, I have to question the source of your information, Mike. It appears to me the GM labor cost figure of $75/hour would include wages plus benefits while the "transplant's" figure includes only direct wages. I don't believe the total labor cost difference is double. I have been wrong before today. Moot point. The US Senate tonight killed the Bill passed by the US House of Representatives. Further action on a Detroit Three loan will not happen before mid-January, 2009, if then. Federal bankrupcy court clerks will be busy over the holiday season. Jim those are the figures that are being thrown around by the news and papers. I hope that is apples to apples but maybe its not Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve6 Posted December 12, 2008 Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 None of them make a small economical car that I would buy.. neither ford, chrysler or GM. I have driven a diesel car now for 2 years, and I would probably never buy a non-diesel (car) again. I am still pretty much a cadillac fan, and a GM fan, but why do they sell mainly diesels in the UK, but not _ONE_ model in the north american market? Screw them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted December 12, 2008 Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 Who would buy a diesel with the price of diesel fuel now being $1 per gallon MORE than gasoline? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan Posted December 12, 2008 Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 None of them make a small economical car that I would buy.. neither ford, chrysler or GM. I have driven a diesel car now for 2 years, and I would probably never buy a non-diesel (car) again. I am still pretty much a cadillac fan, and a GM fan, but why do they sell mainly diesels in the UK, but not _ONE_ model in the north american market? Screw them. "Screw them?" Uhh..that would not be GM. Try looking at the US Federal emission laws related to diesels. Logan Diagnostic LLC www.airbagcrash.com www.logandieselusa.com www.ledfix.com www.ledfix.com/yukontaillightrepair.html www.ledfix.com/ledreplacements.html www.ledfix.com/j42385toolrental.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted December 12, 2008 Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 The union contracts need to be renegotiated down to the competition's wage levels, if bankruptcy accomplishes that, I am all for it. GM can not pay workers average salarys of $75 per hour while competing manufacturers pay $30 to $35 This is just one more small step in lowering this nations standard of living. The global economy is raising the standard of living in other countries, while dragging ours down, like water seeking it's own level. Every generation has done better than their parents (until now). We have reached our pinnacle. It is unlikely that our children will do better than us. This goes a LOT deeper than the big three and the UAW. It saddens me to see what is happening to this country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted December 12, 2008 Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 None of them make a small economical car that I would buy.. neither ford, chrysler or GM. I have driven a diesel car now for 2 years, and I would probably never buy a non-diesel (car) again. I am still pretty much a cadillac fan, and a GM fan, but why do they sell mainly diesels in the UK, but not _ONE_ model in the north american market? Screw them. I rented a Pontiac G6 and was very impressed with it. It was tight, solid, quick and handled well and I got 28 mpg in mixed driving. Not a diesel but it was nice, not sure why diesel's have not been popular here, something tells me its the SOOT emissions Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted December 12, 2008 Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 The union contracts need to be renegotiated down to the competition's wage levels, if bankruptcy accomplishes that, I am all for it. GM can not pay workers average salarys of $75 per hour while competing manufacturers pay $30 to $35 This is just one more small step in lowering this nations standard of living. The global economy is raising the standard of living in other countries, while dragging ours down, like water seeking it's own level. Every generation has done better than their parents (until now). We have reached our pinnacle. It is unlikely that our children will do better than us. This goes a LOT deeper than the big three and the UAW. It saddens me to see what is happening to this country. I feel the same way and know exactly what you are saying. The global economy has definately lowered our standard of living without question. Our best days are behind us Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEldo97 Posted December 12, 2008 Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 The union contracts need to be renegotiated down to the competition's wage levels, if bankruptcy accomplishes that, I am all for it. GM can not pay workers average salarys of $75 per hour while competing manufacturers pay $30 to $35 This is just one more small step in lowering this nations standard of living. The global economy is raising the standard of living in other countries, while dragging ours down, like water seeking it's own level. Every generation has done better than their parents (until now). We have reached our pinnacle. It is unlikely that our children will do better than us. This goes a LOT deeper than the big three and the UAW. It saddens me to see what is happening to this country. So so true. That's been the ultimate goal of the USG's trade policy over the last 35 years - to bring the standard of living of the US population to parity with the third world. "Globalization", "Free Trade" GAAT, WTO the ultimate goal is parity among the world's economies. Forty years ago we took to the streets to change government policy; we need to do so again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted December 13, 2008 Report Share Posted December 13, 2008 The union contracts need to be renegotiated down to the competition's wage levels, if bankruptcy accomplishes that, I am all for it. GM can not pay workers average salarys of $75 per hour while competing manufacturers pay $30 to $35 This is just one more small step in lowering this nations standard of living. The global economy is raising the standard of living in other countries, while dragging ours down, like water seeking it's own level. Every generation has done better than their parents (until now). We have reached our pinnacle. It is unlikely that our children will do better than us. This goes a LOT deeper than the big three and the UAW. It saddens me to see what is happening to this country. It is sad but true. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPreston2001 Posted December 14, 2008 Report Share Posted December 14, 2008 I have a 2 uncles and a cousin that work for GM. One of my uncles just recentley retired and got a pretty healthy retirement package (about 150K and 35K/yr). My other uncle and cousin have been there for about 12-15yrs and they only make about $27-$30/hr. Not that its bad money, but certainly not $75/hr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted December 15, 2008 Report Share Posted December 15, 2008 I think the $75/Hr (or whatever it really is) INCLUDES medical ins., pension, vacation, and any other benefits that are in their contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve6 Posted December 15, 2008 Report Share Posted December 15, 2008 None of them make a small economical car that I would buy.. neither ford, chrysler or GM. I have driven a diesel car now for 2 years, and I would probably never buy a non-diesel (car) again. I am still pretty much a cadillac fan, and a GM fan, but why do they sell mainly diesels in the UK, but not _ONE_ model in the north american market? Screw them. I rented a Pontiac G6 and was very impressed with it. It was tight, solid, quick and handled well and I got 28 mpg in mixed driving. Not a diesel but it was nice, not sure why diesel's have not been popular here, something tells me its the SOOT emissions The emissions are tough NOW, they havnt been for the last 100 years... I laugh at 28 mpg, i'm getting ~48 mpg with a 1989 jetta turbo diesel that I beat the crap outta... 20 year old car getting almost double the mpg of a brand new GM gas'r. It may be $1 more a gallon but it uses half the fuel...The new Jetta's TDI's are even better, upto 60 mpg, and 2009 meets BIN5/LEV2 emission standards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan Posted December 15, 2008 Report Share Posted December 15, 2008 Show me which plant is making $73 per hour. I'll go. It's simply not true. It's media hype. A real number would be 28. Logan Diagnostic LLC www.airbagcrash.com www.logandieselusa.com www.ledfix.com www.ledfix.com/yukontaillightrepair.html www.ledfix.com/ledreplacements.html www.ledfix.com/j42385toolrental.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan Posted December 17, 2008 Report Share Posted December 17, 2008 Find out about Corker and why the UAW said no here: http://www.businessweek.com/lifestyle/cont...1212_127244.htm Logan Diagnostic LLC www.airbagcrash.com www.logandieselusa.com www.ledfix.com www.ledfix.com/yukontaillightrepair.html www.ledfix.com/ledreplacements.html www.ledfix.com/j42385toolrental.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rek Posted December 17, 2008 Report Share Posted December 17, 2008 Nice article Dave, but will it sound out above the din of "Empty Wagon Whiners"?... The empty wagon makes the most noise... It comes down to the weight of your product, as towed in "Your" wagon. Paper, Deals, Key Strokes, don't weigh much compared to actual production: Goods of social utility...Cars, houses, buildings, tools, roads, food... The "Paper Boys" don't seem to realize they are nothing without the production of labor. Then again, the paper boys will be quick with their labels (Marxism, Socialism, Free Market) to elevate their imagined status over labor. rek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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