kcd1184 Posted August 27, 2008 Report Share Posted August 27, 2008 This is the second time I have posted this. I don't know where the first one went. This one is brief. Long cranks at times before starting. Used to fire right now. Sometimes good, sometimes two 15 second cranks before ignition. Fuel pressure is constant. No pattern with warmed up or cold start. Where to start? Kent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted August 28, 2008 Report Share Posted August 28, 2008 Check the fuel pump relay. If it fails, the engine has to build up enough oil pressure to bypass the relay and then enable the pump. Maybe it's intermittent or has corrosion on the contacts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcd1184 Posted August 28, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2008 Check the fuel pump relay. If it fails, the engine has to build up enough oil pressure to bypass the relay and then enable the pump. Maybe it's intermittent or has corrosion on the contacts. Hey Ranger! Couldn't find anything in the Helms about a fuel pump relay. Got rained out today so decided to go to the DEALERSHIP and talk to my friend. First I went to the counter to get a # for a front motor mount, and then asked for a fuel pump relay #. Said the computer kicked back a not applicable routine. Went out and talked to my friend and the fuel pump relay phrase didn't ring a bell with him either on that year,94. Told him the problem of hard starting, and he said to check the grounds down below the mastercylinder (because of the recent transmission work). He also said that even though I had the fuel pressure checked recently, the pump could still be the culprit. Said at the shop, they will haul in a dead Caddy, and because of heat factors,(pump cooling down) it will fire in the morning. Always something. Kent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted August 28, 2008 Report Share Posted August 28, 2008 Hmm, sorry to send you on a wild goose chase Kent. I could have sworn there was a relay. I was under the impression that this hard start was consistent. Is this only hot, but starts OK in the morning or after a short cool down? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
growe3 Posted August 29, 2008 Report Share Posted August 29, 2008 Check the fuel pump relay. If it fails, the engine has to build up enough oil pressure to bypass the relay and then enable the pump. Maybe it's intermittent or has corrosion on the contacts. Hey Ranger! Couldn't find anything in the Helms about a fuel pump relay. Got rained out today so decided to go to the DEALERSHIP and talk to my friend. First I went to the counter to get a # for a front motor mount, and then asked for a fuel pump relay #. Said the computer kicked back a not applicable routine. Went out and talked to my friend and the fuel pump relay phrase didn't ring a bell with him either on that year,94. Told him the problem of hard starting, and he said to check the grounds down below the mastercylinder (because of the recent transmission work). He also said that even though I had the fuel pressure checked recently, the pump could still be the culprit. Said at the shop, they will haul in a dead Caddy, and because of heat factors,(pump cooling down) it will fire in the morning. Always something. Kent In the 1993 Helms manual, reference to the Fuel Pump Relay is on: page 6C-15 Fuel Pump Relay Page 6C-16 Oil Pressure Switch See also figure 17, for the Oil Pressure Switch Harness Connector, to verify that it is fully plugged in. Turn the key to the On position, but do not start. Within a few seconds you should hear the fuel pump build pressure. Assuming you hear the fuel pump "ticking", and then stop "ticking" after a few more seconds the fuel line is pressurized. At this point try to start the car. If it does not start fuel pressure is not the likely problem. Have you recorded the error codes yet? Reviewing these codes can really help the diagnosis, for this kind of problem. -George Drive'em like you own 'em. - ....................04 DTS............................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcd1184 Posted August 29, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2008 Hmm, sorry to send you on a wild goose chase Kent. I could have sworn there was a relay. I was under the impression that this hard start was consistent. Is this only hot, but starts OK in the morning or after a short cool down? It wasn't a wild goose chase. Before I left my Dealership guy, he said he would dig a little deeper. Called and left a message. ( Don't know this guy on a personal level, just have been talking to him for 15 years, after he worked on my first 82 Eldo. Neat!) Said there IS a relay and to check the connections. Said there is also a pump/ relay fuse. Said to check the connections under the fuse box.Said there should be 50# of pressure and that should hold for a long time. If it starts dropping, something is leaking. Thanks. Kent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcd1184 Posted August 29, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2008 Check the fuel pump relay. If it fails, the engine has to build up enough oil pressure to bypass the relay and then enable the pump. Maybe it's intermittent or has corrosion on the contacts. Hey Ranger! Couldn't find anything in the Helms about a fuel pump relay. Got rained out today so decided to go to the DEALERSHIP and talk to my friend. First I went to the counter to get a # for a front motor mount, and then asked for a fuel pump relay #. Said the computer kicked back a not applicable routine. Went out and talked to my friend and the fuel pump relay phrase didn't ring a bell with him either on that year,94. Told him the problem of hard starting, and he said to check the grounds down below the mastercylinder (because of the recent transmission work). He also said that even though I had the fuel pressure checked recently, the pump could still be the culprit. Said at the shop, they will haul in a dead Caddy, and because of heat factors,(pump cooling down) it will fire in the morning. Always something. Kent In the 1993 Helms manual, reference to the Fuel Pump Relay is on: page 6C-15 Fuel Pump Relay Page 6C-16 Oil Pressure Switch See also figure 17, for the Oil Pressure Switch Harness Connector, to verify that it is fully plugged in. Turn the key to the On position, but do not start. Within a few seconds you should hear the fuel pump build pressure. Assuming you hear the fuel pump "ticking", and then stop "ticking" after a few more seconds the fuel line is pressurized. At this point try to start the car. If it does not start fuel pressure is not the likely problem. Have you recorded the error codes yet? Reviewing these codes can really help the diagnosis, for this kind of problem. -George George I am looking in a 1994 Helms (my Eldo's year) and the only thing close on a diagram is a fuel pressure Regulator, and I think that is mechanical, not electerical. Kent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
growe3 Posted August 30, 2008 Report Share Posted August 30, 2008 Check the fuel pump relay. If it fails, the engine has to build up enough oil pressure to bypass the relay and then enable the pump. Maybe it's intermittent or has corrosion on the contacts. Hey Ranger! Couldn't find anything in the Helms about a fuel pump relay. Got rained out today so decided to go to the DEALERSHIP and talk to my friend. First I went to the counter to get a # for a front motor mount, and then asked for a fuel pump relay #. Said the computer kicked back a not applicable routine. Went out and talked to my friend and the fuel pump relay phrase didn't ring a bell with him either on that year,94. Told him the problem of hard starting, and he said to check the grounds down below the mastercylinder (because of the recent transmission work). He also said that even though I had the fuel pressure checked recently, the pump could still be the culprit. Said at the shop, they will haul in a dead Caddy, and because of heat factors,(pump cooling down) it will fire in the morning. Always something. Kent In the 1993 Helms manual, reference to the Fuel Pump Relay is on: page 6C-15 Fuel Pump Relay Page 6C-16 Oil Pressure Switch See also figure 17, for the Oil Pressure Switch Harness Connector, to verify that it is fully plugged in. Turn the key to the On position, but do not start. Within a few seconds you should hear the fuel pump build pressure. Assuming you hear the fuel pump "ticking", and then stop "ticking" after a few more seconds the fuel line is pressurized. At this point try to start the car. If it does not start fuel pressure is not the likely problem. Have you recorded the error codes yet? Reviewing these codes can really help the diagnosis, for this kind of problem. -George George I am looking in a 1994 Helms (my Eldo's year) and the only thing close on a diagram is a fuel pressure Regulator, and I think that is mechanical, not electerical. Kent Kent, The 93 and 94 Seville's and El Dorado's are nearly identical setups. (Try section 8A-21-1 (the page number may be different, but it should be the same section)) A big help would be posting the error codes here, to help diagnose the problem. I have place a couple of images that may be helpful to you on my web storage; they are to big to post in the forum. Take a look and see if these will help you track down the problem. Fuel Pump Relay Issue -George Drive'em like you own 'em. - ....................04 DTS............................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcd1184 Posted August 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2008 George, No luck on 8A-21-1 in the Helms. Also I couldn't get int the Yahoo site you gave me. The only codes on the Eldo are PO83 and SO38, both history. The enigma of this is that for the past two days, the Eldo has fired up as supposed to, every time,?!?!?!?! Still trying to locate the relay, though. Thanks for responding. Kent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
growe3 Posted August 30, 2008 Report Share Posted August 30, 2008 George, No luck on 8A-21-1 in the Helms. Also I couldn't get int the Yahoo site you gave me. The only codes on the Eldo are PO83 and SO38, both history. The enigma of this is that for the past two days, the Eldo has fired up as supposed to, every time,?!?!?!?! Still trying to locate the relay, though. Thanks for responding. Kent I am not sure on the relay either, it may be part of the fuel pump assembly. I will try to dig a little more. P083 is an indication a Crankshaft Sensor error. Possibly position sensor A or Sensor B is has failed, though a bad connection is more likely. The sensors are located above the oil filter adapter, no fun to get at, but "doable" with patience, and a cold engine. Unplug and spray electrical cleaner in each connector connection, and plug back in. Also check the wiring harness for damage (melted, scrapped, etc.) in this area. Regarding the link, try this one. 1993 Cadillac Info If you backtrack on this link there are a number of other bits of info that may be of use. While mainly for the STS, the El Dorado is the same for nearly everything except body parts. -George Drive'em like you own 'em. - ....................04 DTS............................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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