Jump to content
CaddyInfo Cadillac Forum

Major Engine Repair


AUSTINCTS1

Recommended Posts

Had a check engine light. Took to dealer, still under waranty. 2007 CTS. Told me it was the camshaft. They ordered a head assembly and said this was common due to problems with the GM contractor who manufactures the assembly. I'm no mechanic, but sounds major. Anyone else experience this. Thanks.

PS. Should I be worried due to the nature of the repair (future problems)?

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Apparently there were some number of 2007 3.6L V6's which were built with timing chains that did not meet the specification for the part. The symptom of one of these is that the engine dies :o

You should be in good shape with the repair. With a 2007 your Cadillac came with a 100K mile powertrain warranty, so you can be assured of years of worry free motoring, as the press release might say. Keep all the service records, and you should have a loaner car covered under warranty while you wait on the repair.

Bruce

2023 Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing

Follow me on: Twitter Instagram Youtube

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The bulletin reads as if cars with VINs T, 7 which perhaps means 2007 year model?

Once the chain stretches and the engine gets out of timing bad things can happen, so you would need a new head etc.

Subject: LP1, LY7 MIL/DTCs P0008, P0009, P0016, P0017, P0018 or P0019 (Replace Primary Drive and Both Secondary Drive Timing Chains)

Models: 2007 Buick LaCrosse/Allure 2007 Cadillac CTS, SRX, STS with 2.8L HFV6 or 3.6L HFV6 Engine (VINs T, 7 -- RPOs LP1, LY7)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This bulletin is being revised to update the Parts Information. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 07-06-01-013 (Section 06 -- Engine/Propulsion System).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Condition: Some customers may comment on the Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL) being illuminated. Technicians may find the following Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTCs) stored:

• DTC P0008 : Engine Position System Performance Bank 1

• DTC P0009 : Engine Position System Performance Bank 2

• DTC P0016 : Crankshaft Position (CKP) - Intake Camshaft Position (CMP) Correlation Bank 1

• DTC P0017: Crankshaft Position (CKP) - Exhaust Camshaft Position (CMP) Correlation Bank 1

• DTC P0018 : Crankshaft Position (CKP) - Intake Camshaft Position (CMP) Correlation Bank 2

• DTC P0019 : Crankshaft Position (CKP) - Exhaust Camshaft Position (CMP) Correlation Bank 2

Cause: This condition may be caused by stretched primary drive and both secondary drive timing chains.

Correction: Refer to SI for the follow diagnostic information if only one of the following DTCs are set:

• DTC P0008

• DTC P0009

• DTC P0016

• DTC P0017

• DTC P0018

• DTC P0019

If there are more than one of the above mention DTCs set, inspect for stretched timing chains. Refer to Camshaft Timing Drive Components Cleaning and Inspection (Fourth Design) in SI.

The above illustration shows the 3rd design roller type chain (1) (for model years 2005-2006 -- LY7) and the 4th design link type chain (2) (for model year 2007 -- LY7).

It may take several thousand miles/kilometers of use before the timing chains begin to stretch. Inspect both the primary drive and both secondary drive timing chains for the following:

• Binding links

• Loose links

• Loose pins

If any of the chains are stretched, replace the primary drive and both secondary drive timing chains only. DO NOT replace any of the other timing chain component parts.

Parts Information Important: When ordering the timing chains, please be sure to also order all appropriate gaskets and seals needed to perform the repair properly.

Part Number Description Qty

12599718 Timing Chain, Primary 1

12599716 Timing Chain, Secondary 2

Bruce

2023 Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing

Follow me on: Twitter Instagram Youtube

Link to comment
Share on other sites

BTW this does appear to me to be an issue that should be the subject of a recall and save Cadillac a lot of heads/engines. Be a lot better to deal with it up front and protect the customer satisfaction.

Bruce

2023 Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing

Follow me on: Twitter Instagram Youtube

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here was the engine improvement that I think was the cause of the new parts and subsequent supplier issues:

Smaller Pitch Timing Chain

The 3.6L V-6 VVT in the Cadillac CTS has a new timing chain with a smaller pitch (7.7 mm compared to 9.5mm previously) and more links. The chain features an inverted tooth design. The smaller links engage at a lower impact speed, which decreases the noise generated. In conjunction with the new chain, the number of teeth on the sprockets is also increased, increasing the meshing frequency and further reducing noise and vibration.

The new timing chain is a running change that will occur in all of GM Powertain’s V-6 VVT engines through the course of the 2007 model year.

Bruce

2023 Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing

Follow me on: Twitter Instagram Youtube

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We had a discussion about this recently here

http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=18488

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Got my car back this morning. Everything covered by Warranty. This is what the work order stated:

Code P0021(00) SET IN HIST CAUSED BY EXCESSIVE PLAY IN THE LH INTAKE CAMSHAFT. AS PER TSB 08-06-01-011, REPLACED THE LH CYL. HEAD. CAM HAD 0.038" PLAY.

PARTS:

HEAD ASM 0.269, GASKET, SEAL.....

ANY COMMENT WOULD BE APPRECIATED.

THANKS.

BY THE WAY, THIS IS A GREAT WEBSITE.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Glad to hear its working out ok.

I merged this thread with your original thread to keep the facts together for future searches benefit

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've been hearing more and more about problems like this with the 3.6...

It kinda gives pause for the cause if you know what I mean...

My in-line twin cam 6 '95 Jaguar XJS has been much less troublesome mechanically than my '97 Eldorado has been.

I hate like h*ll to say that but the truth is the truth... Fingers and toes crossed...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Got my car back this morning. Everything covered by Warranty. This is what the work order stated:

Code P0021(00) SET IN HIST CAUSED BY EXCESSIVE PLAY IN THE LH INTAKE CAMSHAFT. AS PER TSB 08-06-01-011, REPLACED THE LH CYL. HEAD. CAM HAD 0.038" PLAY.

PARTS:

HEAD ASM 0.269, GASKET, SEAL.....

ANY COMMENT WOULD BE APPRECIATED.

THANKS.

BY THE WAY, THIS IS A GREAT WEBSITE.

Sounds like you are in good shape. Keep all the paperwork.

Bruce

2023 Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing

Follow me on: Twitter Instagram Youtube

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My in-line twin cam 6 '95 Jaguar XJS has been much less troublesome mechanically than my '97 Eldorado has been.

It's not often I hear a statement like that. However, Jags in general became more reliable modes of transportation when Ford purchased them. In my opinion they also started to inherit the chintzy Ford look along the way. So it was a trade off. I have to admit that a time or two I've yearned for a pre-Ford Jaguar. I just couldn't afford two.

"Burns" rubber

" I've never considered myself to be all that conservative, but it seems the more liberal some people get the more conservative I become. "

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Jaguar XK in-line six was first raced in 1953 and thus should have most of the bugs worked out by now. On the other hand, through the 1960's, it had a name for moderate cost and high maintenance. In the XK-E, it was often replaced by the Pontiac Sprint inline SOHC six of about the same displacement. That engine, used in a Euro-sporty version of the Tempest in the late 1960's, provided essentially identical performance and excellent reliability.

Another factor is that Ford has been very, very good to Jaguar. I hope they manage to keep them.

I've had very little trouble with my 1997 ETC -- other than the pulled head bolt at 116,000 miles.

CTS-V_LateralGs_6-2018_tiny.jpg
-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A pal of mine had a 1968 Pontiac Firebird with that overhead cam six in it. I remember it as a sweet little motor.

If I remember the cam was mounted in the cam cover?

My XJS has the AJ16 in it, which was a completely new 6 for Jaguar. Really eats up the highway at 70+. Bullet proof so far...

I had a V12 XJS in Mass that I ran along with my Eldo. That V12 was a nice car but what a PIA to work on. Won't own a V-8 Jaguar another PIA to work on and I agree about the "plastic look".

Liked my Eldo more. Still like the Eldo and the XJS complements it nicely...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A pal of mine had a 1968 Pontiac Firebird with that overhead cam six in it. I remember it as a sweet little motor.

If I remember the cam was mounted in the cam cover?

My XJS has the AJ16 in it, which was a completely new 6 for Jaguar. Really eats up the highway at 70+. Bullet proof so far...

I had a V12 XJS in Mass that I ran along with my Eldo. That V12 was a nice car but what a PIA to work on. Won't own a V-8 Jaguar another PIA to work on and I agree about the "plastic look".

Liked my Eldo more. Still like the Eldo and the XJS complements it nicely...

I have seen that motor in a Pontiac Tempest also, if I recall it also had a 4 bbl carburator, do you recall that?

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I answered my own question:

Overhead Cam (OHC-6)

The OHC-6 design was adopted by Pontiac in the 1966 model year. This was a redesigned Chevrolet Straight-6 which featured a Single OverHead Cam and was the base engine in the the Pontiac Tempest.

The Pontiac OHC-6 was a SOHC engine based on the standard 230 in³ (3.8L) Chevrolet I6 block, putting it in the avante garde of Detroit engineering. The camshaft was driven by a quiet belt instead of the usual chain, making it state of the art for the time. This engine was used on the 1966 through 1969 Tempest and Le Mans and the 1967 through 1969 Firebird.

A high-performance version, called the Sprint, was an option. The Sprint featured high-compression pistons, a hotter cam, dual valve springs, a split/dual exhaust manifold, a better coil and utilized the then new Quadrajet 4-barrel carburetor. It was the first American high performance six cylinder engine since the demise of the Hudson Hornet and the only American high performance six of the 1960s.

The Pontiac OHC-6 engine ended production with the 1969 models.

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Jaguar XK in-line six was first raced in 1953 and thus should have most of the bugs worked out by now. On the other hand, through the 1960's, it had a name for moderate cost and high maintenance. In the XK-E, it was often replaced by the Pontiac Sprint inline SOHC six of about the same displacement. That engine, used in a Euro-sporty version of the Tempest in the late 1960's, provided essentially identical performance and excellent reliability.

Another factor is that Ford has been very, very good to Jaguar. I hope they manage to keep them.

I've had very little trouble with my 1997 ETC -- other than the pulled head bolt at 116,000 miles.

I once "assisted" a fellow aircraft mechanic change an automatic transmission in a 12 cylinder Jag without pulling the engine.

He insisted that it could be done. We actually did it, but by the time we were finished, he admitted that it would have been much smarter to just have pulled the engine in the first place.

It was then that I decided to avoid working on V-12 Jags if at all possible. :P

Britt

Britt
Link to comment
Share on other sites

"It was then that I decided to avoid working on V-12 Jags if at all possible."

I'll drink to that.

I changed the spark plugs in my XJS Saturday took my time and did the entire job in a half hour or so.

If it was a V12 I'd still be changing those spark plugs...

My AJ16 XJS is one of the easiest cars I've ever worked on. It's complex to be sure but at least you have room to work.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...