bbobynski Comments re: OEM vs. Aftermarket Parts

[mike98c]

I would certainly not use aftermaket parts if the car was under warranty unless you want to risk a big warranty claims fight. That said I don't automatically purchase OEM but I have purchased a major aftermarket brand radiator that was inadequate when the weather got above 76 degrees. The Bosch spark plug wires also were nothing but trouble. On a different car (restored 71 Maverick grabber) the Fram oil filter collapsed. Shortly afterwards (of course) the oil filter test came out with Frams poor showing.

Several people have had problems with the aftermarket FPRs. I buy aftermarket shocks, belts (Gates or Goodyear) or other parts that I know are high quality or are parts that have a little leeway in the manufactoring tolerances but to me the aggravation of buying a critical part and not having it work properly is greater than the thrill of saving a few bucks. Especially when I can shop the web and save money on the OEM parts ridiculous prices some of the dealers feel the customers should pay.

[Luke]

And PLEASE stop misquoting me....I repeat...I have never said that OEM parts were categorically "better" or "always the best". I just said that the OEM parts will always work.

Sorry Bbobynski but you made this statement earlier in this thread: Most aftermarket parts are simply a generic part that has been modified to fit the specific application or a reverse engineered knock off of the original part that is cheaper by virtue of lesser materials, less accurate manufacturing, etc.... This is an exact quote from your first post in this thread. I didn't change it.

Am I misunderstanding this one or did you contradict yourself? This statement makes it sound like you are saying that the OEM brands are categorically "better".

[MAC]

Assuming agruendo that Mr. Knize’s information about alleged offshore manufacturing is correct, which it is not (bbobysnki 5/22/04), he never the less states, "Even so, I definitely recommend this filter [ACDelco] over the design of any Fram filter. In fact, I even recommend it over the low-end Wix and I (personally) prefer it over the Purolators." In other words, Mr. Knize still recommends ACDelco oil filters over its aftermarket competitors, including Purolator and Wix despite the so-called "cheaper setup." Apparently, he did not believe the so-called "cheaper setup" degraded the quality of ACDelco filters sufficiently to raise concerns. In fact, he concludes by stating that “It [ACDelco] is the best filter that you can buy for $3.

However, it looks like he contradicts himself when he says the low-end Wix filter, with its $10 price tag, “is the best filter you can buy retail” (See Conclusion, paragraph 5), because he just got through saying that he recommends ACDelco over the low-end Wix (See ACDelco/Duraguard PF2 analysis, paragraph 1). Perhaps he meant to say that the $10 Wix is its high-end filter and thus he recommends the Wix high-end filter over ACDelco? At any rate, it appears that Mr. Knize’s analysis of oil filters is still a work in progress. But maybe we should first see what ACDelco has to say. See comparisons of ACDelco UltraGuard Gold and competitors best at http://www.acdelco.com/html/pi_filt_oil_gold_feature.htm. Click on links at bottom of page.

The bottom line so far according to Mr. Knize’s analysis looks like Fram filters are indeed, “crap.” And it looks like ACDelco backs up his skepticism, which figures because that’s the filter I’m using. I would pick the crappiest filter on the market.

MAC

[Luke]

Champion will make you a filter made of cheese if you spec it that way and want to put YOUR name on it....LOL.

 

LOL Good analogy.

In many cases Champion may only be the final assembly point of the filter with the filter media being supplied by AC Delco...not the generic filter media that Champion might use in a lower cost filter or one where the filter media is not spec'd.

Fair enough. I shouldn't have made the generalization saying that AC Delco filters are crap. I said that earlier. However, I still stand by my statement that I choose not to use AC Delco oil filters. I don't have only a Cadillac. I also have a Dodge Dakota with a highly modified engine. It has always gotten the oil very dirty very quickly. I have tried about every kind of filter available on it (except Fram of course) and checked the oil often. I always note how fast the oil gets black as well as how dirty looking it actually gets. Some do better than others. I have found the Wix Premium and Purolator regulator filters to give the best results on my rather rudimentary tests. The Purolator Pure One filtered great but did get clogged after ~2500 miles and the engine started getting more valve train noise and idled poorly. I do have to admit that I don't believe I have ever tried an AC Delco filter on it. I just use what does best on the truck on all of my vehicles.

One other thing I do is to blow and suck through new oil filters. Some seem to flow air freely when air is sucked through it. I have found that it seems to take more effort to suck air through the AC Delco filters and some others. This equates in my mind to poor oil pressure and flow. When you try to blow air through the filters, the antidrainback valve should snap shut and block all air flow. Some do this well. Some seem to fail this test miserably. The last AC Delco filter I tried this on didn't block air flow when blowing through it and took quite a bit of effort to suck air through it. This may seem stupid but it works for me.

I am soon going to start trying different oil filters and when I change the oil, I will send it off to be analyzed after each type of filter and see wich one really does the best at filtering. I will try an AC Delco when I do this and report back. I am going to try my best to keep the driving under similar conditions (not during winter) and always use the same kind of oil.

There are some excellent aftermarket parts...and they typically cost nearly as much as the OEM parts when they are really good.

That statement by you Bbobynski helped me make part of my point. I should have said earlier that I don't buy the cheapest of aftermarket parts. Usually, most of the aftermarket parts I buy are top end and in some cases cost more than OEM. I have a set of Magnecor 8.5mm race wires on the Dakota. They cost over $100. I know there are aftermarket wires that I could have purchased for less than $20. I went with the Magnecor wires because they are high quality.

As for spark plugs, I know about the Autolite copper plugs that caused a total failure of a Northstar. If I ever decide to install a Northstar in an airplane, I will use AC Delco plugs. However, under normal driving conditions rather than constant high RPM operation of an airplane, Autolite coppers have worked great in 2 Northstars I have had. Autolite coppers are recommended by many people for my Dodge Dakota. The Autolite coppers for it are actually one heat range colder than the OEM Champion plugs. Many have found that they are the best plug with mods in this application. When I removed the OEM Champion plugs from it at ~75,000 miles, I ohmed them out. Most were ~80,000 ohms of resistance. One was over 100,000 ohms of resistance. It hardly let any current through at all.

Why am I telling you about the Dakota? Well, this is the vehicle that I base a lot of my experience on when it comes to trying different brands of parts. I have done quite a bit of trial and error testing on 4 different Northstars I have had also. The statements I make about what parts I prefer aren't something I decide on without basis. I have tried lots of them and know what I like and do not like. This also includes other aftermarket parts. For instance, I installed a cheaper aftermarket ISC motor on a 1994 Northstar I had and it gave me many trouble free miles with that ISC motor installed. It worked fine when the car was sold.

Sorry if I offended you Guru. I guess I should have worded my first post better. I was just trying to make a point about some people on this board who always quote you when answering parts questions and say you should use OEM only. I guess it just irritates me that some of us who have done lots of trial and error testing of our own are told that we are wrong when we recommend certain aftermarket parts that we have had very good experiences with.

Does this help clear up some of my views in this area?

[mike5514]

It seems we are gathering a lot of data here? though, it is not written in stone, so far we have been given a description of many filters. It is also suggested that some ac filters are made off shore. It has also enlightened us on the fact that some ac filters are made by Champion which in my opinion is a poor filter because of its week element. Someone said one time that the filters ac makes for the factory are not the same they make for the aftermarket. Without saying the word we may be getting closer to Lukes first discription of this filter. I have used plenty of ac filters through out the years and now Im rethinking my reason for doing so. My choice, untill this thing is straighten out in my mine, will be the purolator. Mike

[KHE]

Mike,

The filters that Champion makes for GM are to GM's design. It is not the case where Champion takes one of their filters and paints it blue and applies the AC Delco label.

You said you have used plenty of AC filters over the years - have they ever failed you?

[mike5514]

No they have not but they are changing the playing field and the rules and I dont want to play their new game. Mike

[KHE]

No they have not but they are changing the playing field and the rules and I dont want to play their new game. Mike

What is their new game????

[Dusty]

Hello! I haven't been on here for so long I was either removed or just have forgotten my login and password, so now I am Dusty...used to be DustinS. But, wow! It is fun to look at recent posts, and this one in particular has created quite a stir. It's really too bad. There are so many products, good and bad, so many personal experiences; there is data, but who always gets to see it at the right time. There are so many variables, and everyone seems to be trying to figure out which is best and what product will work the best for the cheapest price. The constant question of which product will give the best results and be cost effective is just an ongoing squabble, at this point. Well, who is really right? It seems everyone is trying to act in the best interests of everyone. Yeah, well kind of. This just turns into a monstorous argument, it seems. I was once told not to send emails with questions and comments that could easily be misconstrued. Writing in on discussion boards (and THIS board is wonderful) can be somewhat like emailing. Good things are indended but easily interpreted with a twist. This can lead to a possible feeling of insult, which can possibly carve a path for good discussion leading to war! It seems as though the general concensus is to discover the best parts, or oil filter LOL. And arguments have started because the ones arguing are actually caring for the best interests of others, through their personal experiences of which product(s) has given the best results for them in their application. Too bad there isn't a baseline for such things, because in some products the differences are really substantial, yet in others its just arbitrary. Rather than partaking in an argument, maybe just post your results from various products. If you have no knowledge or experience with a product, it may be best to just keep still regarding the matter. Test something if you feel, report back, or find a test and tell about it. Good luck.

It is nice to read the threads again. We had a new and only daughter in February. And between tending to her, working on grad school, working for $ and keeping sane LOL, spare time has been a delicacy. I'm sure you know. In fact, who has children??

[mike5514]

Guru Yes I have read your post and I think they are very good I respect your input and I follow your advice. it is invaluable. My problem is I dont completly trust corporations when it comes to saving a penny, when my welfare is at risk. Example - what if champion in another country runs 50000 GM filters with a flaw into the system before gm catches it, will they recall them? will they pay for any damages to our cars? will they warn us to the danger? Some one ask me what my playing field is. My playing field is when ac delco oil filters are made in the usa at a delco plant and are the same as those installed in the new cars coming off the assembly line my playing field will be in harmony again almost like 1965. Im a loyal gm customer ever since my first 65 Impala ss 327. I purchased gms when others were jumping over to foreign cars. But it is no big deal to me to walk across the street and buy Purolator. I like this thread! Mike

[mike5514]

Guru I think bruce is thinkin about shutting us down But I do think that would be a good idea for a New thread to find out where oil filtes are made and by whom.mike

[JasonA]

Jason, you left out the part you didn't like.

They named AC Delco’s filter to be one of the better models. Later, AC

Delco changed their design and went to a cheaper setup made by an offshore

manufacturer.

Luke, I left that part out because it was untrue, as others have stated already.

But even if it were true, it'd still be fine with me. I don't care if the filters are made by one-eyed monkeys, as long as they're the same quality filters that they've always been. Obviously, it's hard to determine just how "quality" they are without cutting them open, but I do take comfort in knowing that they're always made to GM's specifications (no matter who makes them), unlike other aftermarket filters.